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LAST UPDATE | 18 Feb 2020
THE SOCIAL DEMOCRATS have cancelled a planned meeting with Fine Gael.
In a statement released this morning, the party said it came to the decision after Leo Varadkar last night said Fine Gael was preparing to enter opposition.
“In light of Leo Varadkar’s statement yesterday evening, the Social Democrats have taken the decision to cancel today’s proposed meeting with Fine Gael.
“It is clear to all that FG are now engaged in a game-playing exercise and we refuse to participate in what is essentially theatrics by FG.
“While it was always the case that we were unlikely to find much common ground with FG, we intended to honour our commitment of engaging openly with all parties.
“Clearly Fine Gael’s intention is to engage in shadow-boxing for the coming weeks and we’ve no interest in participating in such a charade,” the statement noted.
Varadkar last night said his party is “preparing to go into opposition” following a six-hour parliamentary party meeting.
The proposal of a grand coalition with Fianna Fáil has been met with significant resistance within Fine Gael.
While some senior figures are in favour of a coalition, the majority of TDs and much of the membership of the party are understood to be against it.
Varadkar and others in the party have consistently ruled out forming a government with Sinn Féin.
When asked by TheJournal.ie if there will be a grand coalition with Fianna Fáil, Varadkar said: “I really just don’t see that happening.”
“It’s a last resort,” he said, but added “it shouldn’t come to that”.
“Other parties sought a mandate, made a lot of extraordinary impossible promises to the Irish people and they have a duty now to fulfil those promises,” Varadkar said.
A statement issued last night said: “Fine Gael will represent the interests and the aspirations of the 450,000 people who voted for the party in the election and hold the new government to account.
“The Taoiseach said he also plans to consult with public representatives and members about the future direction of Fine Gael, and looks forward to rebuilding the party in the years ahead.”
If Sinn Féin fails to form a government, Varadkar added that the onus passes to Fianna Fáil to form a government, either with Sinn Féin or other smaller parties.
Speaking on RTÉ Radio One’s Morning Ireland today, Tánaiste Simon Coveney said the party had a “difficult meeting yesterday” because there is a “huge amount of disappointment” in the party after the election.
“We recognise that people voted for change… The onus is on the parties that got the most votes and the party that got the most seats to show some leadership,” he said.
“We now have a very difficult situation to face up to. Irish politics is fractured. No political party got more than a quarter of the vote.”
He reiterated the party’s stance of preparing for opposition, saying he “relishes the opportunity to hold the government to account”.
“We see our future in opposition given how people have voted, but we’re not going to tie our hands and we’ll have to wait and see how it develops over the next few weeks,” Coveney said.
The Fine Gael parliamentary party will be meeting again next week.
Left-leaning government
Mary Lou McDonald yesterday said it is still possible to have a Sinn Fein-led government despite the numbers making it difficult.
The Sinn Féin leader said talks will intensify with smaller parties this week in a bid to form a left-leaning government.
She said: “There is undoubtedly a solid block of TDs for change for a new government. I remain very determined that we deliver that government.
“We are still very determined that an alternative and a new government of change can be created. And we will intensify our efforts this week when we have conversations with other parties.
I am very clear that we have been elected in very large numbers to be in government, even to lead the next government. I’ve also said that the idea of seeing Fine Gael or Fianna Fail returned again for five years is unthinkable.
McDonald said there is little public appetite for another election but Sinn Fein will fight one if required.
“I want to see a good, stable, strong government that can deliver on housing, on health, can deliver on the issues that matter to people. But if there is an election, I mean we’ll go and we’ll fight the election,” she said.
Climate change
Meanwhile Solidarity-People Before Profit has urged the Green Party not to prop up a Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael government.
In a meeting yesterday, Solidarity-PBP TD Richard Boyd Barrett said the two main parties will not implement changes demanded by the public.
The party’s delegation met Green leader Eamon Ryan and TD Catherine Martin to discuss the possibilities for government formation.
“The main message we will be trying to put across is urging the Green Party not to prop up a government of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael,” Boyd Barrett said.
“We think there is an overwhelming mandate for change and we want to see that movement for change not sabotaged by seeing a return to power of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael … because of the sort of change people are asking for on the housing crisis and health crisis, the cost of living for working people, climate change.”
Boyd-Barrett said he will urge Ryan “to work with the left with a view to delivering on the mandate and demand for change and to try and press forward with the possibility of a left government to deliver that change”.
Solidarity’s Mick Barry said the party will urge the Greens to “close the door” on any deal with Fianna Fail and Fine Gael.
Colleague Paul Murphy said: “Even for the Greens’ own policies to be implemented – for example, they call for a 7.67% annual reduction in carbon emissions – that will not be delivered in a government with Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael.
“Even their limited demand – which is inadequate – for doubling investment in public transport will not be delivered in government with Fianna Fail or Fine Gael.
“There is a majority in society for a whole series of left-wing policies.”
Contains reporting from Christina Finn, Orla Dwyer and PA
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He doesn’t seem to understand , he’s not wanted by electorate.
@Willy Mc Entire: SF don’t seem to understand that either as we still haven’t a government, or a left short term government I should say.
@Willy Mc Entire: what’s your point? He was elected by his constituents to represent them so he is wanted by the electorate in Dublin West.
@DERRY1973: Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil failed to address housing despite it being screamed by people as the number 1 issue. Social democrats aren’t going to be allowed to fix this – that’s just a sham.
@Peter McGlynn: there’s housing crises across the world. This is not an easy problem to solve nor unique to Ireland.
@Hector Son: 5th count was it
@Cathal O Broin: Yet our rents are the 3rd highest in Europe, just behind Iceland and Switzerland whose wages are much higher. It is much worse here, people are going hungry to pay rent. Insurance is a unique problem to here, businesses are closing and people are paying unaffordable prices for car insurance when we have no public transport outside the cities.
@Gerard Heery: this “5th count” nonsense is tiresome. It the proportional representation model and how it has always worked. Each seat is worth the same in the Dáil.
@Hector Son: on what count was he elected if he wasn’t elected on the first or second count he wasn’t wanted
@Willy Mc Entire: he still got a large vote which ever way we look at it so he can do what he likes as long as it follows on from what the grassroots want !!
@Willy Mc Entire:You seem to forget that FG got 22% of the Vote, FF got 23% of the vote and SF got 24%. So the vote between them was fairly evenly split. Each of these have their own democratic mandates. As such saying he, FG or FF are not wanted by the Electorate if the numbers are to be taken as consent would mean 76% of the Electorate don’t want SF either!
@Peter McGlynn: Spot on, just like the tone of this article which is refreshingly true. Fine Gael, in case it has escaped anyone’s attention were leaders of the last two governments. During this time we have witnessed homelessness figures rise dramatically to unacceptable levels. Simon Coveney who is being touted by some as the “next leader” of FG was Minister for Housing for two years. He did nothing to ease the burden on the thousands of Irish people who faced either eviction or dingy hotel rooms or both, all because of the failure of politicians and the gambling of banks (who were bailed out by the people). He stood idly by while VULTURES swooped and took homes from Irish people at a fraction of their worth, his ineptitude whether personal or party policy is totally unacceptable and making promises now after having 9/10 years to address these issues is just more false propaganda.
New election please, it appears that FFG are up to their old dirty tricks now that an ONUS has fallen on the political spectrum to form a government, while they shadow-box time gets wasted and while time is ticking people are suffering.
@Cathal O Broin: Jog on Cathal. You hate the poor, the working class and those that earn less. It’s all over your Twitter page. I pity you.
@Willy Mc Entire: He knows that Willy and thats why he wants to go into opposition.
@Peter McGlynn: Peter, it’s quite clear that the Soc Dems don’t want fix anything either.. and nothing makes that more obvious than Roisin Shorthall on Pat Kenny Show today confirming that her CO-Leader Catherine Murphy is going to put herself up for Ceann Chomhairle in Thursdays Dail Vote. The Soc Dems only have 6TDs and they are going to effectively neutralise one of TDs by trying to get elected as CC of Dail..
Eoin O’Broin came out last week stating SF effectively need FF . Why? because all of so called other “parties of change “ namely Sol-PBP , SocDems & Greens are running away from a coalition of left with SF ..
RBB likes pontificating from the sidelines but he is not going to go into coalition with SF … neither is Shorthall ..she is just full of it ..
Put up or Shutup
@XvSv: when the dust settles on the negotiations , The Soc Dems Sol-PBP and Greens will be shown to be just as big hypocrites as FF and FG..
I’m not a SF supporter ..but I would at least like to see make an honest effort with like minded parties of left to try formulate a program for Government … but have found out very quickly that none of “. Change Parties” have interested furthering SF political ambitions over their own .. Soc Dems are hiding behind the numbers …
SF with all left parties + 4 Ind TDs can get high 70s …
If FF and FG blocked or collapsed the Dail would be on them
But Sol-PBP , Soc Dems and Labour have NO interest in supporting FF, FG or SF.
That’s why we will end up with FF/FG coalition supported by Independents and perhaps Greens at the end of the day ..
@XvSv: typo
“ have No interest in furthering”
@XvSv: the smartest thing the All the parties of the Left / for change could do on Thursday would be to vote to re-elect Sean O Fearghail as Ceann Comhraile of Dail again and thereby reduce FF effective TD count 37 to voting TDs … as Dail protocol dictates the CC has to support the government … it simply makes zero sense to have a Soc Dem TD Catherine Murphy in the CC position given the numbers in the 33rd Dail …..
..unless of course there is another back story to this like the Soc Dem CO-leadership arrangement between her and Roisin Shorthall is coming to an end …
@Cathal O Broin:jumped up little pr1ck
@XvSv: what you just said is contradicted by Boyd Barrett coming straight out last week after Mary Lou invited FF to talks, accusing her of throwing in the towel on the left. That doesn’t sound like he wont enter office with them.
I think the real reason why SF approached FF when it did, was because the Greens were heading that way anyway and without them, there is no alternative left option – if you could call the greens a party of the left.
@Cathal O Broin: Yes it is. You budget and you build. FF and even FG did it in previous decades and built them in very large numbers, even before we were in EU. the difference then was the political will existed.
there was no focus groups, no special advisors, no special interests groups and business friends/developers and no Landlord lobby groups to keep the rental market creaming off peoples money and swallow up profits.
There is nothing complicated or difficult about it and no other country in the world are using the same self interested – profit driven model that we are currently using. So stop your nonsense and telling us this is a world wide problem. It could be sorted tomorrow if the political will was there to address it.
@Hector Son: on what count
@Angela McCarthy: Eoin O’Broin who I personally believe is a person of the highest integrity, came out last week and indicated that effectively SF admitted they need FF to form a Gov…that didn’t happen by accident !!
I truly believe RBB & PBP are very afraid they would be simply swallowed up in aSF coalition hence their reluctance..if he was was serious both he and Roisin Shorthall could have issued a statement by now agreeing in principal to a Left Allliance coalition lead by SF …subject of course to the usual AGREED program for government..but they have not !!! Why not ?
The only thing Roisin Shorthall / Soc Dems has stated is
1) she won’t support a coalition that includes FG ..
2) Catherine Murphy will be a candidate for Dail CC on Thursday.. why sacrifice a voting TD ??
@Angela McCarthy: For a start, standards were much lower in the past for buildings. Less regulations and lower quality.
In the 50s, we also built at the expense of funding other areas such as health and education as well as capital spending to develop the country.
There are always tradeoffs.
Let the shinners at it. Their hyperpopulist fairytales will fix everything and we’ll all live happily ever after.
@Sim0n: hooray!
@Sim0n: CTRL+C followed by CTRL+V. You are getting very good at it Simon! Well done.
@Sim0n: you must be glued to the keyboard,a hostage,a troll,bored and very annoying.
@Sim0n: Haha! Every time I see your posts, I get Scooter’s “Hyper Hyper” stuck in my head.
@Sim0n: WEARING THE FINGERS OFF YOURSELF
@Sim0n: Give examples of SF’s “hyperpopulist fairytales”& then give your party’s alternative proposals & explain why they are better,
eg: Housing:UN said last year that housing in Ireland was unaffordable.Rents are 40%+ higher than boom & no security of tenure,even those with good incomes can’t afford to buy,etc
: Homelessness&why does Ireland unlike many other European countries only uses 3 Catergories of ETHOS typology re homelessness?Also why no urgency to adequately tackle family homelessness: homeless families with children has increased by shocking 605% since 2011(-Sept’19)& homeless children in family units has increased by shocking 677.7% since 2011(-Sept’19)Plus why no urgency taken to address Report after Report published every year highlighting damaging effects of homelessness on children’s development, physical and mental health?
: Health: according to Irish Consultants Association last year I m people were on combined hospital waiting lists.Theres dangerous overcrowding in hospitals leading to higher mortality rates.According to a new NHS England study 1in 83 patients who are on a trolley more than 6 hours face a higher risk of death.The body representing Emergency consultants here say that it’s ‘truly frightening’ as many patients here on trolleys wait that long for a bed!Also why are cancer patients denied a medical card?Plus last year Mental Health Reform said there’s a mental health crisis!
:high costs of living: high insurance, highest childcare costs in Europe, higher mortgage rates in Europe,one of highest gas& electricity costs in Europe, etc,etc,etc
It is reasonable for the public to expect these ‘most important’issues to be adequately tackled!
@Nuala Mc Namara: You’re wasting your time with that eejit. Mute button is your friend
@JusticeForJoe: Simon is perfectly entitled to comment here like the rest of us &I believe in healthy debate.I think this is the 4th time I’ve asked Simon to back up his comments with examples and facts but so far no response!
@Nuala Mc Namara: very well put..but unfortunately you are wasteing your time..see, speak and here no evil is working overtime today..logic doesn’t come into it
@Nuala Mc Namara: Nuala I replied weeks ago. Listing all that you believe is wrong doesn’t automatically mean the plans of Sinn Féin can realistically and prudently address any of it. From reading their manifesto I see them driving the economy off a cliff. Their plans for insane spending while narrowing the tax base don’t fill me with confidence. I genuinely believe they will make things worse. I have other reasons for not supporting Sinn féin beyond their hyperpopulism too. However, according to the many here SF ” won” the election. Its time to give the leftist change grouping their turn. It’ll bury them for a generation and we will have a lot of repairing to do.
@Nuala Mc Namara: He can’t back up his claims because which ever persuasion you are FF/FG they have been failing on all the issues for the last 100 years swapping in and out of power ensuring their comfortable little bubble is not burst by any other party. Look what they have done to our country.
@Sim0n: I hope FG are paying you at least the minimum wage for the social media presence work. Or are they paying you under the table to avoid the tax man like they did for nine years before they were caught red handed by revenue.
@Martin Byrne: I think his orders from HQ are to try and bombard this site with as much false propaganda as he can muster, keep it simple, and impede proper debate. Do not engage is the best policy !
The fantastical strawman arguments here are hilarious! We have a team of very competent fiction writers here. He doesn’t support sinn fein he must be paid, he must be this, he must be that and don’t forget a dash of personal attacks. Apologies if my opinions cause such heartache folks, they won’t be changing. The mute option is your best bet.
@Sim0n: Is FG’s Nine year tax evasion a strawman argument.? Doesn’t the party you are defending call itself the party or law and order.?
hilarious!
@Martin Byrne: No, but the other 80% of your comment is. It’s trite childish noise. Be better than that.
@Sim0n: There’s already a lot of repairing to do and really SF can’t do much worse.
@Darren Sheridan: Explain what part is ” It’s trite childish noise ” Given that you agree with the only point (fact) I made. IE: That FG are tax evaders who say they are the party of Law and order.????
@Sim0n: Explain what part is ” It’s trite childish noise ” Given that you agree with the only point (fact) I made. IE: That FG are tax evaders who say they are the party of Law and order.????
@Martin Byrne: If you are incapable of understanding the first line of your original comment then I can’t help you Martin. All the best!
@Sim0n: But its a given that you are manning the keyboard for FG PR dept.
But deal with the Tax evasion issue the you are avoiding. How can they call themselves the party of Law and Order and knowingly brake the law.?????
This usually sends FG supports into the long grass. So I imagine you wont be back on this tread. All the best !
@Sim0n: No,you didn’t reply namng the particular policies and what policies your party has to address those issues.
So:Q1) How will their proposals “driving the economy off a cliff”,what proposals?
Q2)What “insane spending”?
According to ITs article:’IBEC says Sinn Fein’not mad’ when it comes to the economy’!
Why did IFAC say that FG Government medium term projections ‘not credible” last year? Government also criticized for over reliance on Corporation tax receipts for Budgets and spending all of it by IFAC.
Government also warned that housing emergency is a threat to the economy and Irish Competitiveness Council also said that plus said it was a threat to competitiveness.
SF also uses projected fiscal space of €11B but +also €4B from NAMA for further investment in housing +16 new tax measures+targeting a smaller surplus each year,€22B is the cumulative figure.
What are your party’s policies to deal with the “inevitable loss of revenue”caused by new OECD rules on digital taxes?IFAC ‘s Seamus Coffey said it could be a loss of between €2B-€6B!
Brexit will be more difficult to deal with because of ongoing National emergencies here particularly in housing.It needs urgent action now and that’s why SF had proposal using €4B from NAMA for additional investment in housing +16 new tax measures including taxes on intangible assets on-shored here between 2015-2017 as recommended by IFAC& Stephen Kinsella,the latter saying that it would “fund the Exchequer handsomely and help offset the inevitable loss of revenue from new OECD rules on digital taxes”.!
We’re already been burdened for generations with the 3rd highest level of debt per capita in the world after Japan and US!Prof Mody said that FG Government in 2011′blew opportunity to get debt deal”!
Generations are been burdened now by unaffordable rents,high costs of living as in my comment above, unaffordable ‘affordable’ housing,no security of tenure, unaccessible health care,etc.Exit poll after people voted showed 63% of voters didn’t feel they benefited from the improvement in economy.77% of SF voters and 68% of FF voters said they didn’t benefit from the improvement in the economy, nearly the same!41% of FG voters said they hadn’t benefitted either.
So there’s substantial amount of repairing for the next Government to do from this year because of previous Governments policies!!
@Martin Byrne: “It’s a given” – so you’re standing over your own strawman/ ad hominem now? Tragic childishness. The FG tax evasion issue was dealt with 21 years ago according to Google. They did “brake” the law and coughed up the tax bill. I don’t honestly care what FG call themselves. You should investigate ‘logical fallacies’ next. You’ve made a show of yourself with these comments. Poor lad.
@Martin Byrne: Seriously, try not engaging with the account named Simon, when challenged it gets nasty and resorts to lowest common denominator name calling. Never addresses questions put to him/her just attacks the person. Ignore and you will have peace of mind ;-)
@Frank Cauldhame: You’re another one who is a great man for the ad hominem attacks Frankie! All because I don’t support Sinn Féin. You’ll notice I don’t accuse you of working for SF HQ etc. Is there a reason you make things up to help you understand my comments?
@Sim0n: SimOn YOUR ARE A TROLL
@CJ Stewart: Nope. I’ll never support sinn fein and express my opinion of their pre-election promises. You, and others, don’t like it so make up things about me and name call to make yourselves feel better. This place is often surprisingly similar to a primary school playground. Be better than that CJ. You’re a grown man for godsake.
@Sim0n: children sleeping in Garda stations. Family’s living in hotels. Pensioners and children eating their meals on the street unaffordable housing unaffordable rents. Insurance rip off trolley and health care crisis. Most expensive hospital in the world. Golden circles. Martet lead economy most expensive child care non existent quality of life. Did I leave anything out ? End this night mare. !!!!
@Sim0n: SF don’t need to pay trolls to defend their record in gov like fg. Stop telling lies
@Sim0n: You don’t care what FG call themselves ??
How can you trust a party that was involved in tax evasion against the state, to look after the economic health of the same state. Surely trust is out the window.
You wrote to Nuala:
“Listing all that you believe is wrong doesn’t automatically mean the plans of Sinn Féin can realistically and prudently address any of it. From reading their manifesto I see them driving the economy off a cliff. Their plans for insane spending while narrowing the tax base don’t fill me with confidence.”
How can you logically have confidence in FG’s ability to manage the economy that they stole from and lied about, It’s just a ludicrous position. And only made retribution when they were caught.??
You are embarrassing yourself and are clearly out of your depth on here.
@Martin Byrne: Not a FF or FG supporter but Sinn Fein have their legacy issues too. Maybe not to do with economic issuse covering up the murdering innocent people
@Sim0n: We could have if FFFG hadn’t destroyed the country. FF decide to give away our oil to the “ conservative “ estimate of 420 billion! We wouldn’t have had to worry about our pensions & lots more!
@Sim0n: that’s a great word there Sim0n…you should maybe look up another one or two as I think you’ve slightly overused that one in the last few days…cant you think of anything else to add ..Leo must be some disappointment to ye all…wait for the real shit to come out over the next few months like the real cost of the NCH and broadband and all the other scandals covered up by Leo the king of spin over the last few years..
@Nuala Mc Namara: he’ll probably say something about SF’s hyper populist fairytales…its sad when you can predict what a lads gain to say but that’s what we’re up against..
@Martin Byrne: jays I wouldn’t pay him anything for that regurgitated garble…or if so then I deserve to be paid to because I know what he’s going to say next and it includes hyper populist and economy. the usual FG scaremongering BS …like they’re the only party capable of running an Economy and yet they seem to have forgotten their gigantic screwups on issues like the NCH ,Broadband,Health,Insurance,Homelessness to mention but a few…
@paul gurney: Cheers Paul. Its funny that FG can only muster one advocate for them on here, surely he must know the writing is on the wall when he is defending FG all by his lonesome.
Simon coveney and enda kenny both also made unrealistic promises to the electorate,,in other words completely lied to the public.
But thats ok,ff and fg are allowed to lie to us prior to elections
@Jono: Coveney…no family will be housed in hotels by mid 2017. but of course he’d fecked off by then.
https://www.thejournal.ie/hotel-homeless-families-3291278-Mar2017/
@Jono: We had 15% unemployment in 2012 – we now have full employment and rising wages. You literally live in one of the best countries in the world to live in.
@Mark Kelly: statistics – the warm cosy best of the neoliberal. Surely whether or not your loving in one of the “best” counties in the world depends on your situation?
Try telling that to a homeless child, an autistic child who can’t find a school, a child waiting to see a consultant for months upon months.
@Mark Kelly: The idea of a person with a stable full time job having a high quality of life is a dated concept that FG supporters appear to not understand.
The average young worker in this country has long commutes, can’t afford a home, and dreads any sort of health problems given the carnage in our hospitals while most of their money flows into the pockets of landlords and insurance companies. It’s a horrible, almost dystopian standard of living and gets worse by the year.
@Mark Kelly: Full minimum wage, TUS and CE employment. I’d say Ireland has the highest percentage of full time workers having to rely on top up payments from social welfare in the developed world. IBEC are very quiet these days. Just look how much corporation tax receipts have increased by. Company profits that would have been far better spent, paying employees wages they can live on.
@Mark Kelly: This lack of understanding of what life is like for lower paid workers is so obvious from your comment. This may be one of the best countries in the world to live in but only for a small number of high earners. This is the disconnect that lost FG seats, a complete lack of understanding of what it is like to live in the real world.
@Mark Kelly: :60% of individuals have gross incomes that is less than €30,000
:75% of individuals have gross income that is less than €40,000(SBP: Distribution of individual market incomes in Ireland)
:85% of individuals have gross incomes that is less than €50,000
:90% of individuals have gross incomes that is less than €60,000
:95% of individuals have gross incomes that is less than €85,000
:99% of individuals have gross incomes that is less than €100,000
:1% of individuals have gross incomes that is more than €100,000
:0.3% of individuals have gross incomes that is more than €200,000
:0.3% of individuals have gross incomes that is more than €275,000
Ireland has the highest mortgage rates in Europe, the highest childcare costs in Europe, insurance costs treble the EU average, escalating rents now 40% higher than boom years,last year Ireland had 4th more expensive electricity costs in Europe and 2nd highest gas costs in Europe,etc!
@Mark Kelly: Full employment is a fallacy. 48% unemployment in the disability community double the EU average.
Zero hour contracts on minimum wage is not employment its indentured slavery.
Best country to live in with the HSE in the mess its in, 2o million cots to support service to Persons With Disabilities.
Make in you little buble it is but not in the real world
@Mark Kelly: full time employment is cooked by seetec and other bodies making money from the government. Full time employment were you need 3 jobs just to make ends meet. Take that silver spoon out of your mouth.
@Mark Kelly: you seem to think that all SF voters are lay abouts or track suit wearing car thieves. That’s the simplistic right wing mentality in action.
I voted SF and I worked two jobs, a day job one on the week end and a night job after college to get my degree. I have a well paying career and If I was single with no commitments I would be doing just fine, But I have a 9 year old daughter and an 81 yr old mother with dementia that lives with me. So under this government I was isolated and forgotten about. But expected to keep going with zero help from the state.
FG and people like you don’t like dealing with facts. they like the broad simplistic look at the world. If you are rich you work hard if you are poor you are lazy.
Its FG lack of intelligence and empathy that has destroyed FG and its going down and down into the dust. You will have to join with FF to keep your right wing brainless ideology because with 29.000,000,000 in debt this country is heading for more trouble and one day people like you will be in my position.
@Martin Byrne: Well said!
@Mark Kelly: Full employment my ass, if one is forced into doing courses, CE, or training courses, for a few Euro’s extra, I know many who’s money was stopped shortly after Christmas, because they couldn’t prove that they had looked for work, so if they knock a few thousand off every week the figures look great,even if you are doing part time work, (you are off the register) or working for minimum wages, and that’s the whole point, only a few are earning a decent wage, many having to do two/three part time jobs a week because a company won’t give them full employment.
@Martin Byrne: Basically he’s an I’m alright Jack! Therefore, the policies of FFG have bought his allegiance and if he’s doing well that’s all that matters! It sounds like he’s scared of change and what it might bring about in relation to taxes and provision of much needed services in the greater public interest?
@Mark Kelly: Governments don’t create jobs. Private industry does.
@Mark Kelly: Unemployment has fallen massively (3X) but we aren’t at full employment. There is still considerable underemployment and people not in the labour force at all who could be.
What happen in Ireland: politicians decision are always involved in destroying an economy. Panama Papers.
Here what happened Finna fail over 18 years ago relied upon stamp duty taxes to support a social economic economy. We joined the Euro which had no policies for the turbulence in the currency. Our economy could not absorb the shock. In 2008 it became apparent European bank asked Ireland to shore up 45% of banking debts for Europe at a price of €9,000 per head on every Irish citizen. In panic the government agreed to bank bail out , to compare the desparation in Germany the debt is €145 on each Germany persons head.
What happened next led to today’s hardships and election result. Mr Noonan with Enda Kenny decided Ireland would pay the debts but on the look out and observing Ireland’s vulnerability was the banks , solicitors. They waited until Mr Noonan as financial minister decided to give foreign investors a free no tax charge for investiging funds in Ireland. How did they do it. The group of people we called vulture funds went to a solicitor first, he sent them to a bank the bank gave advise on where the tax free havens are and where their monies and assets get invested to yield high profits and no taxes. Ireland was selected.
How did they do it , if Mr Or Mrs Irish offers X for a house, apartment, the vendors agent rings the vulture fund agent tells them about Mr Or Mrs Irish X offer, in return the Vultures agents offers X plus a Y payment.
This has created the worst housing crisis in Ireland, because Vulture funds build cheap on mass and get very high rents. They remain as long as they have to pay no tax which was the policy of Fine Gael.
Sine Fein want to tax them in next budget to start to get them out of Ireland.
@Robin Tobin: if they do that we are facing another Venezuela…
@Vic’s Burd: Anything to back up that rubbish?
@Vic’s Burd: Explain!
@Vic’s Burd: A reduction in vulture funds and landlords is a bad thing lol!
@Vic’s Burd: That is horse manure the vulture funds were given the same tax status as a charity if we tax them at a fair rate say 22% they can then make up their minds if it is feasible to stay in the market here, and if not get the duck out how will that turn us into Venezuela
That’s the arrogance of finegael it took over five counts to get him elected do the right thing and jog on
@Hector Son: 5th count was it?
FG would be wiped out like Labour at the next election if they went into coalition with FF and they know it.
@Ronan McKeon: And SF will be wiped out if they go in to power and they know it.
@Ronan McKeon: I think SF will be wiped out faster, those policies of theirs will drive the economy into the ditch.
@Vic’s Burd: What policies in particular “will drive the economy into the ditch”?
Is it the policy re taxing intangible assets on-shored here between 2015-2017 as recommended by the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council and also highlighted by Stephen Kinsella saying that it “would fund the Exchequer handsomely and help offset the inevitable loss of revenue from new OECD rules on digital taxes”?
@Nuala Mc Namara: I guess they seem to be spending an awful lot. 100,000 houses at cost of €6.5bn, abolishing USC under 30K at cost of €1.2bn pa, abolish LPT at cost of €485m pa, restore state pension to 65yo at cost of €368m pa no pension time bomb combat proposal, increase pension by €20 at cost of €700m, free GP care at cost of €455m, 2500 more nurses at cost of €358m, 1500 more beds at cost of €480m pa, more home help hours at cost of €58m pa, extra gardai at €160m pa, reduce childcare cost at cost of €500m pa, abolish 3rd level fees at cost of €243m pa. Free school books at cost of €173m pa. While we all want everything for free it’s clear to see that some of these promises are fairytales and with a debt of €200bn over our heads would require Shinneromics on a grand scale
@GrumpyAulFella: That’s why not only does SF plan to use €11B projected fiscal space but adds in +€4B from NAMA+16 new taxes +targeting a smaller surplus every year!€22B is the cumulative figure.
@Nuala Mc Namara: yes I think the 16 new taxes are a huge worry. That plus the assumption that 100,000 social/affordable houses can be built over 4-5 years, we are building about 6-7K at present, at that cost, what stress free GP care is going to put on an already overwhelmed GP system, the lack of a proposal to address the pension bill which will spiral out of control in the next 5-10 years. It’s difficult to know where to start with their promises. One things for sure, somebody’s going to have to pay for that outlandish spending and the economy is approaching tipping point as it is according to the CB.
@GrumpyAulFella: Why do you think that SF’s proposed 16 new taxes are “a huge worry”, which ones in particular?
FF want to build 200,000 houses,SF are trying to be realistic.They propose to spend €6.5B on housing on top of existing Government committments which includes the €4B from NAMA.It needs to be tackled urgently as housing emergency is not just a threat to the economy and competitiveness but what’s forgotten is future pensioners.Home ownership has declined over the years and there could be a scenario where people nearing pension age not having the security of a home or security of tenure in the rental sector with a much dimished that would be disastrous!
:Costs(from Dept of Housing)per unit are;
€230,000 for new build & affordable rent
€190,000 for acquisitions & returns
€50,000 subsidy for affordable sales
One of their proposals re health is introducing a bursary to GPs ‘making the move to practice in Ireland’ to make it more attractive.
One of the new tax measures is eg introducing a 15.75% rate on employer’s PRSI on portions of salaries over €100,000
The ‘giving workers and families a break’sections re Tax Spend comes to €2.4B& the 16 new tax measures re Tax Revenue would bring in €3.8B
They would run a surplus every year.
CSO estimated that our population could increase by 1.75m over next 32 years, while that growth will help re pensions in future it a big challenge also to have adequate affordable public and social housing stock,but affordable cost rentals as well.Its a big challenge re health care too because it’s in crisis now with 1m people on combined hospital waiting lists now, mental health services in crisis,etc how will we manage with such a large increase in population?
Talking about other parties keeping promises? There’s still a trolley crisis and I still USC on my pay cheque.
@Aidan: There’s no trolley crisis. I’ve been in hospital and saw thousands of trolleys in the corridors. Trolley shortage is a lie!!!!
@Daniel O’Connor: That’s a good one, I hope it’s an Irish manufacturer building those trolleys, amazing that hospitals would actually have that many, and few available beds, they must cost a pretty penny as well, as anything else.
I worry more that every party talks about the greens being involved i can just imagine the money it will cost us if their involved heaven help us
..
@Catherine Hayward: if the Greens are involved with ff and f Gael, they will be able to lever as many taxes and increases as they want because ffg will be afraid of collapse, and will once again let Greens pee on their own supporters!!
He should go back to being a doctor as he is clearly useless as a politician.
@Bull McCabe: Who’d want him as their doctor? He totally lacks any type of empathy, no thanks .
@Bull McCabe: In a private clinic of course where the right kind of people are treated.
@Bull McCabe: did he get grants?
How could anyone call FFG a grand coalition? This would be more like a grand political cartel. FF & SF are the two largest parties of opposing political views. That’s what the next grand coalition should be. How can Micheál Martin (elected on the 6th count) tell the party with the most votes that he won’t sit down with them and try to form a government and tackle the housing, health etc etc crisis in the country. It’s obvious to the electorate that FF, FG, RTE etc. don’t want the party with the most votes in Government. People are not stupid and can see straight through media mudslinging. If there’s a FFFG coalition we can all expect much of the same for the next five years and worse!
@Carol Cummins: When you have TD’s when elected to the Dail start singing come out ye black and trans and others shouting up the Ra, I for one wouldn’t want to be in government with them either.
@John O Flynn: this is their problem. Being in govt here is simply a means to an end for sf. A lot of people who vote for them agree with this. Personally, though I vote left I don’t vote for a situation that will ultimately serve the ends of the army council.
@John O Flynn: In all honesty, I think people care more about the crisis in our health system, lack of affordable housing, distressed mortgages, rising rents, rising insurance premiums, the global climate emergency etc etc and things that really affect their lives more than a man singing up the ra.
@Carol Cummins: That’s all true and so they should, it’s what I care about. Do those TD’s given their response to being elected give you confidence they are the right people to deliver all that?
@Carol Cummins: the reason he wasn’t elected on the first count, is cause he had running mate, you know this but pretend you don’t.
@John O Flynn: They certainly have some very intelligent and capable people and have proven themselves to be good negotiators from the GFA. Don’t believe them to be financially corrupt and they certainly won’t be in the pockets of bankers & vulture funds. Probably a lot shrewder than many of the politicians in Government for the last decade. Let’s hope whatever form the next Government takes that they really will implement the changes urgently needed. Whatever anyone thinks of SF they appear to be the best option for that change. What’s very worrying is all the IRA stuff being shovelled out by RTE over the past few weeks over one comment I believe taken out of context and bloated out of all proportion. An interviewer said she was concerned about the image Ireland will have over that comment yet they are rolling it out for the world to see… strange logic!
This stuff about Paul Quinn. Please watch the YouTube video “south Armagh residents March against criminals.’ This is dated March 2015. It will give people another perspective on this ongoing narrative about sinn fein and the IRA. Please watch!
@Redhandtim: I can’t find it on YouTube or Google, do you have a direct link, please?
@Redhandtim: look up ‘Thousands stand against South Armagh Criminal Gang’ I found it there.
@Paul Cullen: Will watch, thanks.
FF FG TV tried their best last night to knock the left but to be fair I think it didn’t work out for them. The Sunday independent jurno lifted the FG councillor out of it,fair play to her, doubt she’ll be invited back. It really came through how angry 55% of voters are with the current arrogance of FF FG.
@Stephen Walsh: Paul Williams and that lady from NI now living in Wicklow were excellent on the Claire Byrne show last night.
@GrumpyAulFella: my heart went out to that lady. As for Paul Williams I don’t think he got the reaction he was desperately looking for. He looked like he wanted to jump up and down when he was challenged on some facts. I don’t know who is correct by the way.
@Stephen Walsh: I thought a good point was made, that SF were challenged for years by the Souths politicions to stand on their policies, get a mandate, leave the gun behind, enter democracy…. they do just that, and get a mandate, and now they are being told “we are not talking to you cos of your past”
FGFF can’t have it both ways. Hypocritical.
I’d expect the Green Party would split if Eamonn Ryan brought them into any coalition.
More talking to the media than each other. Great for headlines but not running a country. They all offer something different, why can’t we all just get along???
It’s good to see the Social Democrats showing a bit of backbone. I was afraid they would fall into the FFG camp. Simon’s peevishness and Leo’s tantrums aren’t going to work. The electorate have passed judgement on their failure to do anything about housing and homelessness, health and services. Sulking and blaming the voters isn’t going to win them any votes in the foreseeable future. They are fading fast, just like their Labour pals.
Wakie, wakie: Some of the Soc Dems & The Greens (both Left) owe their seats to SF preferences.
@Moorooka Mick: but not as many as you might think:
I suppose fine gael dont always rush in when it suits them ,hospital trollies ,homelessness ,health service ,house building.But can rush big decisions like dail printer ,children hospital ,etc etc .
In a month or two time FG and FF will be entering talks on forming a government, we all know they’re inevitable. This is just the same time wasting nonsense employed by FG and FF that they did in 2016 to maintain the facade of being reluctant to work with one another.
@Rochelle: your correct and last night on FF FG TV the former FG leader who’s on 2 pensions worth one hundred thousand euros every year said he was looking for. They were killing each other a 100 years ago. Money talks as they say
@Rochelle: Democracy. Majority of people want a centre right government. It is what the people truly want.
So in other words Leo is only interested in Looking after the 450,000 who voted for FG and the rest of the voters in Ireland can go and ,=/€&: themselves.
That’s the kind of talk you would have to listen to at the parish pump from a small time local mouth piece
@Vincent Sharpe: I’m confused. Do you want FG in government or not? Is he not agreeing to opposition just like the voters wanted?
Its interesting to see the game they are playing and being called out for it by the Soc Dems already.
There will be so much more of this before anything is decided.
So let the games continue until we really find out the facts, if we ever do.
The cosy consensus have been threatened and the shady characters behind FG/FF(the wealthy)don’t want change and will use every slander tool they have got to see it through
@Tom Barry: The Great Collusion continues.
Leo saying his opposition will hold government to account is laughable when he doesn’t know how that works. FFG have stymied the democratic opposition for longer than I care to remember.
Leo is like a spoilt child, Its like I didn’t win so I’m not playing, it’s not about him, it’s about what’s best for our country
And the political elite wonder why, we the great unwashed, has landed them in this mess?? Honestly we need some real statespeople to take on the Political parties at this stage.
Stop them from talking to the press at every opportunity and get on with forming a government, its embarrassing if you watch our media reporting on this if you are outside the country – leaders blaming the public and not taking time to reflect on mandates etc – let them eat cake comes to mind!
Shadow boxing for sure..if anyone goes in with F.G it would be political suicide
Hurler in the ditch, how ironic..
You’re much better going into opposition in this country. If you go into government, do your best but don’t give everyone a free house and retirement at 65 then You’re goosed
@Virgil: Who gets free houses??
@Ruairi Colton: if you are in social housing on social welfare your rent is paid by the state
Reasonable position for FG to go into opposition. Reasonable position for FF/SF to go into government. Ridiculous proposition of a left government. Now is the time for the elected representatives to work together to put a government in place. One that represents the outcome of the election. There is a need for balanced compromise. Again none of the parties got more than 25% of the vote. That is their reality.
Important fir people to realise that people before profit or s d or green heading of with own menu that they won’t be able to deliver either at our risk of bill unless until that issue of loan from EU imf dealt with and put to bed and eu imf me think will not change terms with successor of parties who agreed them MINISTER and dail has not spoken cis MINISTER has not laid the bill. And m l Mcdonald has she realised that as borrower or someone who held themselves out as having authority ti bind the borrower in this case US.
@Mary Ward: That is unreadable drivel.
@Mary Ward: that comment gave me autism.
@xDemo17: thats not nice. Be a better person than that
@Mary Ward: What????
And the trolls are off tearing him apart. Dont any of these idiots have a job to go to.
@Margaret Mcgarry: Why is it that anyone who is anti FFG is a troll yet every tosser who still thinks Varadkar is the Messiah is not?
@G Row: Because the anti Fine Gael people are simply emotive and loud, verging on hysterical, whereas the anti SF people are worried about the facts and figures, the economy, and what SF’s dodgy numbers and image (up the Ra!) will do to us on the world stage.
@A2 Poster: So Leo is the Messiah, I must have missed all his great achievements.
Can you list them for me?
@G Row: What an odd thing to say… The only person who has claimed that is your good self, I’m afraid. Twice now, in fact.
@A2 Poster: No list of achievements then?
@A2 Poster: May I remind you of the fiscal space row prior to the 2016 election. I believe both ff and fg got their figures badly wrong at the time and only sf had the correct figures so your argument doesn’t stack up.
@Ruairi Colton: Now you are “simply emotive and loud, verging on hysterical,”
Wasting your time, even though you are right.
@G Row: Sorry guys, I’m in work, and not hitting refresh angrily every 5 minutes :)
Ruairi if I remember correctly SF were the last party to release any figures at that time. And by the time they did IFAC had already said everyone else’s answers were wrong. It’s not very hard for them to be right when they were given the answers.
But let’s talk about the here and now rather than that one time 4 years ago when they spoofed a result. How do you feel about the 65K houses they are going to build or the retirement age reduction? All solid numbers there are they?
@A2 Poster: SF were the first to release the figures. FG and FF said they were wrong but of course they were proven to be right. Either way ff and fg got it wrong. I believe they were a billion out.
@Ruairi Colton: €2B!
@Ruairi Colton: You’re being kind to them there I think.
@A2 Poster: Still no list of this great mans achievements
@G Row: See this is the hysterical piece I mentioned earlier. No one mentioned messiahs or listing achievements on a comment section of the journal to justify someone’s worth until you shoehorned it into the conversion. Why don’t you go out for a walk and get a breath of fresh air and stop obsessing over Leo? Might do you good.
@A2 Poster: So that’s a NO on the achievements then?
Did anyone notice and m l McDonald’s statement about pension she will use fund to pay from 65 but why didn’t she also say that if she is part of govt a term of her deal programme fir givt will be repeal of legislation TERM OF B LENIHANS DEAL increasing pension age. And ey v v adamant all leg in place prior to a penny being given to b lenihan or m noonan on their req as min to central fund.
But back to domestic agenda is it because m l Mcdonald working from same hymnsheet as ff and fg who ignored people mandate that deal be sent back to Brussels and has her eye on the key to the kitty that td gave to MINISTER to use to protect financial system or other object coming down to compliance with eu budgetary ruke on deficits and projects that are OK with eu all money for MINISTER and term of deal as fresh as ever cos DAIL has said nothing about them cos min has not laid bill before dail.
Requesting dail permission to accept them and pay interest on loan also coming out of that fund. Cos it seem to me the dispute between all three leaders is all about how they as taoiseach and their min for finance will use fund they have key to if TD elect them as taoiseach.
It was TD who gave them keym
And
TD who will elect taoiseach incl td in their parties
And
TD who were mandated back to dail Eireann nine years ago to pls send that deal by benihan back to Brussels and get better terms.
They have still. Not done it.
They have opp to make that bill a term of programme for givt avos that statute giving min key to fund is there and td need to be told by us I mean your own td who gave u any authority to give a mkn that key. Abd ignore our mandate. b
@Mary Ward: Jaysus Mary – try to type something coherent please.
@Mary Ward: I say it again as td in fg who gave that key to min (and mind u m l did nothing at all about it nor did s Democrats nor did people before profit nor did independents who want hospital in Waterford.. We all want but we do not want min ever to have been given this key and deal not sent back.. This is Leo varadker opp and td in fg to put it to rest and listen to people and lay that bill befir dail Eireann req that permission to accept term of deal signed by b lenihan and drawn down by m noonan and dail permission to pay interest out of fund and u no may be we will begun to have confidence in dail again but may be hard and may b v hard but min getting power and key to fund to expend like this when they know they have ti come back to be elected to dail as brexut.. No. I shudder. Please go to your yir own td and tell them to instruct their leader thar this bill be part of programme for govt as fg td who were elected to dail on mandate to send deal back to Brussels did not do it but instead voted to give min key to fund forgetting that they have to come back to us and not thinking that s Fein may be in running for key.
They are expressing anger.
They can change all by making that mandate part of programme fir givt ut they and restore our confidence in dail again.
All within their control. That Leo varadker and p Donohoeay bill before dail req dail permission. U no eu commission may even say amen.
@Mary Ward: Can we now have that in English please.
No sign of Murphy and Harris lately, have they been dumped?
FFFG are a dispicable shower people don’t want them in government and they can’t seem to accept it
@Margaret Kane: They got a combined 43% of the vote.
It seems to me that there’s a lot of game-playing going on.
Realistically, given the differences between SF on the one hand and FF/FG on the other, the only prospect of a stable government is some sort of arrangement betwen FF and FG, with the support of some of the smaller parties and/or independents.
But if FFG were to rush into that there would be massive cries of a stitch up, not respecting the result of the election, etc. etc.
@Lesidees: So SF have to be given the opportunity to try to form a left-of-centre government, even though, as Eoin O Broin has already acknowledged, the numbers really aren’t there for it.
Once SF has tried and failed (which is no reflection on SF, just a consequence of the numbers), FFG can step into the breach and form a government so that another election can be avoided
have your say