Five arrested in connection with Nice massacre to face court

The death penalty would be a very bad idea. It will inflame Muslim resentment and alienation. It would likely lead to even more deaths. It would act not as a deterrent but as a provocation.

We rightly don’t want Turkey to join the E.U. One of the reasons is that Turkey is clamouring to reintroduce the death penalty. Death penalty supporters have no place within the E.U. The death penalty is barbaric.

The usual procedure is to have a fair and impartial trial to establish guilt or innocence based on evidence. If found guilty, then apply an appropriate and proportionate custodial sentence depending on degree of culpability.

Medievalism has no place in the EU you might want to explain to your Islamist buddies

For receiving a text, intelligent logic.

Incidentally, What do you think should be the fate of those responsible for killing the 56 civilians in Syria should be? My guess is you probably think they deserve a medal.

That won’t be all over western media as it doesn’t suit the agenda unfortunately. People tend to forget that thousands of civilians are killed annually by coalition forces.

The sad truth is that relatives of the people killed will more then likely take up arms against the west. If my family was killed in similar circumstances I’d pick up a gun in a heart beat

Of course it’s sad and unacceptable but there is more in the media about France due to proximity, being a fellow member of the EU that we are in but most importantly. .. we know people there, we go there…. we (mostly) dont know people is Syria, we don’t go there. That doesn’t make their innocent deaths any less horrible, I’m just trying to help you understand the relevance of hiw things are reported in the media.

It uniquely depresses me, Paul. Living in a country that due to occupation went out ‘under the influence of radicalisation’ and bombed innocent people’ while also killing who they thought had some guilt.

There is no accountability that the West has caused the entire problem, it is our history and it is in black and white movable type.

The more powers bomb, take control of lands for no more than resources, we are never going to end the war at our shores.

Totally agree Paul.
If the shoe was on the other foot and a Syrian or Iranian or Saudi or wherever air strike hit Grafton St on a Saturday evening, we’d be doing the same.

Nothing in the western media
*apart from articles like this, from possibly the most pro-establishment publication in the uk:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/us-air-strike-in-syria-kills-up-to-85-civilians-mistaken-for-isi/

Shame it also finishes with factually incorrect propaganda.

You must have misread my comment there Avina…..

I said that *it won’t be all over* western media and it wasn’t.

To an extent I agree with what Keith said above me but it’s also in the coalitions best interest to keep the war popular, I.E dont report on massive loss of civilian life at the hands of the coalition. Just look at the measures the bush administration took against the American media during the Iraq w
ar

Fair point Paul.

In your opinion Padraig.

Not in an opinion, Avina in historical fact. Never mind the fact the US was caught using footage of Russian attacks and claiming to be their own. You should try and lift yourself above the populist spin and understand what is at play, understand how and why we are up to our necks in it today.

There is a big difference between setting out to purposely kill innocent civilians and carrying out bombing in a war zone that may have a chance.

A moral position has only bearing to the person that holds that position.

@Pádraig Ó Raghaill

Nothing to say about Saudi’s & Gulf states bombing civilian’s in Yeman ? are funding of Islamic extremist in West for decades are embassy staff in USA & Saudi Royals sending money to 9/11 hijackers..

You right the US, France & Russia are bombing the wrong country

Where exactly does your “historical fact” come into it Padraig?

Sticky wicket, The Jeff, there is a great intertwine between the U.S/UK/Pakistan/Israel/Saudi et al

It get’s even stickier

For nearly a decade the US supported Islamist radicals linked to Chechnya, Iran and Saudi Arabia to destabilise the former Yugoslavia. The radicals were also allowed to move further east to Kosovo. By the end of the fighting in Bosnia, there were tens of thousands of Islamist militants in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo; many then moved west to Austria, Germany and Switzerland.

And let us not forget that British intelligence had used the al-Muhajiroun group in London to recruit Islamist militants with British passports for the war against the Serbs in Kosovo.

The bombings in Syria, which I strongly oppose, do not justify the killing of people in France.

Sadly modern warfare and terrorism share one thing in common. In each case, it is unarmed and non participating civilians, with no choice, who pay the heaviest price.

Probably from history, Avina. Just a stab in the dark, you know.

Why don’t you ask the people in the countries and see if they agree with you, Michael

Iran
Panama
Kuwait
Bosnia
Sudan
Yugoslavia
Iraq
Afghanistan
Pakistan
Somalia
Yemen
Libya
Syria

et al

Pádraig Ó Raghaill

“intertwine between the U.S/UK/Pakistan/Israel/Saudi et” Bullshit & Waffle… like most lefties, Who’s side are you on TODAY ! at the end of the day ? sooner or later you have to decide.

You either support Islamic view or you dont sure the Nazis build some good roads & did wonderful things in science field but hell if bombing innocent German’s & Europeans meant their plan for the world is dead than so be it. Take a Stand get off the fence.

Nothing to do with fences, maybe you need to grow up a little.

Tell you what I will help you out a little, here is a reading list that might help you attain more objectivity to your propensity to throw around bollox.

Imperialism: A Study – J A Hobson
Mission to Tashkent – F M Bailey
The Fate of Empires and the Search for Survival – Sir John Bagot Glubb
The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East – Robert Fisk
Eastern Approaches – Fitzroy MaClean
The Crisis of Islam – Bernard Lewis
Islam and the West – Bernard Lewis
The Arabs in History – Bernard Lewis
Political Ponerology – Andrew M. Lobaczewski
Titanic Express – Richard Wilson
Lawless World: Making and Breaking Global Rules – Philippe Sands
The New Great Game: Blood and Oil in Central Asia – Lutz Kleveman

When you have got through those I will give you another list.

Pádraig Ó Raghaill

A Reading list is not an answer, Where do YOU Stand Padraig ?.. or is that fence embedded ?

I stand as an independent study of history & social, political psychology – how do you stand

“Rebels and many residents say Russia’s bombing campaign has been even more indiscriminate and accuse the Russians of deliberately hitting hospitals, schools and infrastructure in opposition-held areas, something Moscow denies”.
Sounds like pretty factual reporting there Padraig – he said she said….
Now perhaps you can point out the “historical facts” that make this report inaccurate. If you convolute it enough you might even convince yourself…

If you think it sounds factual to you, then all the power to you, Avina. However, I feel no need to qualify or even justify my statements to you.

Pádraig Ó Raghaill

“I stand as an independent” behind the backs of braver men & woman.. Coward, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” – Edmund Burke

I am for wiping out Islamic extremes out where ever they are found & their supporters, fellow travellers etc at what ever the price just like the Nazis.

“study of history & social, political psychology” Not very Islamic ? I suspect ISIS supporters will have you & your family on their list of targets regardless of your feelings.

Great to see you have no clue in how to stop the violence then, all the power to you.

I stand behind no one, as I do not support the Western War on terror.

Pádraig Ó Raghaill

“how to stop the violence” wipe them out ALL of them, ever they are, Simple… just like the Nazis fascists, Islamic fascist are no different

“I stand behind no one” yet have no view ? nor can you say where you stand ? nor will you engaged in the fight against this fascists ideological system based on 1 badly written book which no “true” believer can question, Why ? either you support them or your a coward ?

Notice not once have you said anything against Islamic extremist starting to wonder if your a fellow traveller. How do you say we stop the violence ? by rolling over & letting fundamentalist Islam win, perhaps you need to ask your wife, daughters, woman friends or gay friends how they feel about that. I for 1 will miss the beer & bacon too, which Mo can take from my cold dead hand..

Traitor or Coward ? Ó Raghaill

Go and swallow a few more vowels, watch some foooootbal and chat with your fellow pond-dwelling illiterates how you can save the world.

Padraig, the report basically says that one side is making a claim and the other is denying it. That is factual reporting. To try and portray it any other way is a logic fail on your part – if you took your head out of your arse long enough you may recognise that, without needing to erroneously refer to “historical fact”.

My anonymous trolling cat, if you took your head out of your ass long enough, you would understand that factual reporting would be based on fact, not hearsay.

Saying he’s a traitor or a coward for not picking a side is a bit much. I’m completely against the two. Violence in this day and age should be stopped at all cost. Humanity as a race seems to have learnt nothing from the last 5,000 plus years .

This whole us and them situation causes more problems then it solves, problems that are hard to eradicate and end up lasting for generations

Posted in the wrong part – try again

“What experience and history teach us is this—that people and governments never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.”

Hegel -

Padraig, it is a fact that one side are claiming something and the other is denying it. Most thumbers seem to get it but it seems to be over your head.

You amuse me, Avina, while you claim a logical fallacy and supported by a validation of thumbers, which speaks volumes about you. A factually based report would say these two factions declare this and then (similar to the Journal fact check) would say but in truth, this camp is talking shite while this side has validity.

In fact, you are completely wrong as it simply places an “assertion” with no debate at all.

“Rebels and many residents say Russia’s bombing campaign has been even more indiscriminate and accuse the Russians of deliberately hitting hospitals, schools and infrastructure in opposition-held areas, something Moscow denies.”

Now take yourself away – read the NATO documents that say the Russian campaign has been more targeted and successful than the US campaign. And discover that ‘historical factual statement’.

It is nothing more than propaganda put at the base of an article to keep the heat against Russia as that is the want of the US. They did not even bother to put in the actual statement from Moscow – it is a biassed piece, lacking any journalistic integrity, even if fully expected.

@Paul Hughes

Your living with your head in the clouds !… how do you reason with someone that’s on a mission from god as #ISIS say & is not allowed to question the message in their book at ALL. When a gay christian man can walk in shorts & Jesus t-shirt into a Starbucks in a Gulf state, order a coffee from the Woman behind the till without fear of arrest at best, I believe your are right until that day best deal with the world as you fine it ugly & all.

Pádraig Ó Raghaill

“Go and swallow a few more vowels, watch some foooootbal and chat with your fellow pond-dwelling illiterates”

Socrates — ‘When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.’

@Barney r…………Exactly Barney r. Take for example 9/11 that was orchestrated every inch of the way by SA,Iran,and Iran’s proxy Hezebollah. Upper echelons knew all along but kept the facts from us until an independent legal investigation uncovered the facts and ruled on by Judge Danieles in the US District Court and mentioned in Robert Spencer’s new book “the Complete Infidel’s Guide to Iran’…see link below
-
…”As I detail in my new book The Complete Infidel’s Guide to Iran, on December 22, 2011, U.S. District Judge George B. Daniels ruled in Havlish, et al. v. bin Laden, et al., that Iran and Hizballah were liable for damages to be paid to relatives of the victims of the September 11, 2001 jihad attacks in New York and Washington.

Judge Daniels found that both the Islamic Republic and its Lebanese proxy had actively aided al-Qaeda in planning and executing those attacks. He found that Iran and Hizballah had cooperated and collaborated with al-Qaeda before 9/11, and continued to do so after the attacks….
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/07/robert-spencer-in-pj-media-not-just-the-saudis-irans-huge-role-in-911-also-covered-up

For bearings the 9/11 Saudi/Iran attack on the US was in 2001 whereas invasion of Iraq was 2003.

Padraig, so where is your factual evidence (not your opinion) that one side is talking shite and the other has validity?
I’ll wait.

Wouldn’t you be under your bed squealing if a bomb from a Syrian war plane hit Grafton St this weekend, and once you came out you would be blaming the western governments for meddling in the Middle East as being the reason for it. That’s your party line, why would it change. The last people you would be looking to ‘attack’ in revenge would be those who actually dropped the bomb.

I gave you the dots, Avina, work for it.

The Jeff – you have no high ground – You called me a Traitor and Coward – So basically you are no more than a hypocrite.

Patrick – You read populist toilet paper widely wiped by the academic set as he is as biassed as a yacht’s keel.

Weak response. I guess there’s no point in waiting then…

TheJeff…
The are not “lefties” Padraig and Michael are I suspect not even Irish. They are Muslim spin doctors. Watch them disappear when people stop reacting to their posts!