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‘IF FIANNA FÁIL or Fine Gael seriously breach the programme for government the Green Party can bring down the government.’ That is one of the messages being communicated to grassroots members of the Green Party in a bid to get them to back the coalition deal.
All three parties are balloting their members on the programme for government and are expected to announce the result on Friday 26 June.
The Greens arguably have the hardest task, with party rules meaning they need the approval of two-thirds of their membership.
Matters for the party have not been helped by one TD who was part of the negotiating team for the programme for government abstaining on the vote.
Neasa Hourigan, the Green Party’s finance spokesperson, has said she can’t fully endorse the deal yet as it does not do enough in terms of housing and deprivation.
Speaking to The Tonight Show on Virgin Media this week, the Dublin Central TD said she would have to re-read the document before deciding if she will support it.
Hourigan also criticised the Taoiseach and Tánaiste for saying the emissions reductions targets set out in the 126-page document would not happen until the second half of the decade. (Leo Varadkar said this was because infrastructure and capital spending was needed – tasks to be undertaken in the next five years.)
She is not the only one in the party to have concerns. Four members of the parliamentary party refused to back the deal before it went to wider party on Monday.
At a time when the party is trying to build consensus, dissent is taking a front seat.
Minutes before the registration deadline for the Green Party Special Convention yesterday, party leader Eamon Ryan told TheJournal.ie he hopes the membership will endorse the programme for government.
He said a recent poll indicated that a large number of Green Party voters supported the deal – and said he expects the membership to agree.
“Chatting to people on the street I think they do [want the Greens to enter government] , I hope that will be reflected,” he said.
Parliamentary TDs have been tasked with trying to convince the membership that going into government with Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil won’t be a 2008-style catastrophe.
Speaking to TheJournal.ie, Dublin West TD Roderic O’Gorman said “ultimately if we see a serious breach in implementing [Green initiatives in the programme for government] or trying to do something different we can leave, we can bring the government down”.
“In 2008, we didn’t have the numbers to bring it down”, but the two larger parties now need the Green Party to stay in, he said.
“It is not a threat you make idly, but it is an important one to have,” said O’Gorman, indicating that such an assurance is needed in order to get the deal over the line.
“There is worry among members about going into government with the two larger parties,” he said.
O’Gorman added that members are “wondering if we are strong enough to stand up to the two parties or are we at risk of what happened in 2007 happening again”.
He said he is advocating for the deal, and that he is telling members that the Greens have more knowledge of being in government.
“We have learned things from 2007,” he said.
The majority of members can see “it is a solid” programme for government and one of the best Ireland has even seen in terms of climate action, according to O’Gorman.
The party secured a 2:1 funding for public transport versus roads, with cycling infrastructure and pedestrian infrastructure each getting 10% of the budget, respectively.
An increase in the carbon tax to €100 per tonne by 2030, and a 7% average per year reduction in emissions has also been committed to. The programme for government also promises a ban on the importation of fracked gas.
O’Gorman, like many other Green Party members, are ringing around members before the special convention today. He took part in three Zoom meetings on Tuesday, he had two yesterday – one with his one constituency group, he said
“The mood is positive. I think a lot of people are surprised at the extent of the green policies we got in,” he said, stating there are a lot of areas where the party is “moving things forward” in both climate action and social justice issues.
There is “massive jump forward in transport, in energy, climate but also in the justice and equality”, he said, pointing to the commitment to end the Direct Provision system and also the registering of undocumented migrants, which he said is a “big leap forward”.
When asked about the party’s reaction to Hourigan not endorsing the agreement she helped negotiate, O’Gorman said he couldn’t speak for her, but added the proposed programme is stronger for her having been involved.
It is no secret that she was not in favour of the party entering the negotiating process a number of weeks ago, he added.
Ultimately, “each person has to make their own call”, he said.
O’Gorman said he agrees with some of the concerns that Hourigan flagged.
“I am conscious about the issues she raised but I am not as concerned as she is about them,” he said.
He is satisfied the programme for government has a strong commitment in investment, and a stimulus package “which will ensure we don’t risk going into an austerity spiral”.
The Dublin West TD said he “certainly won’t be supporting an austerity Budget if one is proposed later in the year”.
If one is put on the table, the party could “bring the government down” if Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael “flout” the commitments made, and pursue measures that are “punitive to the most vulnerable”.
The Green Party leader told TheJournal.ie that he doesn’t see Hourigan speaking out as breaking ranks: “If there weren’t differences, you would be worried.”
He said one cannot have absolute certainty one way or the other, but that it is important for a party leader to “heed the differing view, heed your critics… listening to differences is where you start in politics, if you have any brains”.
“If you didn’t have that discourse or argument you would go blind with all the sweetness and light” only to get a “rude awakening”, he said.
When asked if it has damaged the task at hand of getting the deal passed by members, he said:
“I don’t think so, the questions she is asking are good ones – how do the economics of this work – that was the question she was asking continuously [in the talks]. You want people asking those questions.”
When asked about threats to bring down the government if there is a breach, Ryan said:
“I think it is a relationship, it is not just based on numbers and political fighting.”
He said the negotiations do not “just stop once you sign the agreement”.
Entering into a coalition government means “ongoing negotiations”, said Ryan, stating that “things change” and delivering upon a programme for government you “always have to adapt”.
That requires constant engagement with political parties, but also the public, he added.
“One thing that encourages me to try our best is that I saw our own team doing well in negotiations, having real strength and decency. Now is about convincing colleagues this is the right way to go, not beating them over the head with it,” he said.
Ryan said no one has absolute control over the Budget or the timeline in delivering some of the promises, but added that he has confidence in the Green Party‘s parliamentary party in driving the direction.
When asked if he is concerned about being a buffer between Micheál Martin and Leo Varadkar, Ryan said the culture has to start from the top.
There is a system in place to ensure the party leaders can meet once a week to iron out any issues, something O’Gorman said is also reassuring to Green Party grassroots members.
Ryan said you can never be too confident, and should never presume anything.
There should be a “respectful approach” in trying to convince members, and you should try and put your best case forward, he said.
“That is what I am doing,” Ryan said.
“It is up to members to make up their own mind,” he concluded.
The Green Party’s Special Convention webinar will be held today from 1pm.
Parliamentary party members and members will contribute to the debate, which will last about eight hours. The party leader will end the convention with his pitch as to why he believes the Green Party should endorse the programme for government and enter into power with Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil.
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Wow ! A nice way to start a ‘stable ‘ government by threatening to bring down that same government if they don’t get their way . It just highlights the differences between them before they start . !!!Another party who puts ‘party ‘ before the needs of the Irish Country ‘ .
Is that not negotiation? After all, these are promises that have been agreed upon by FGFF.
Differences are needed. A one-party govt doesn’t reflect the interests of the country — it only reflects a portion.
@Mary Mc Carthy: ye if petrol is not 2euro a litre and coal 30euro a bag by Christmas they’ll pull the plug, God hope they don’t even get into government it will mean a recession for eternity
@Gerard Heery: The less coal burnt the better!
Politicians – ‘We will take down the government’
Leaders – ‘Here is 8000 euro to look the other way’
Politicians – ‘We are 100% behind our new government’
That’s how things roll in this country.
@David Corrigan: EOB of spin féin had recommended a much higher increase than €8k for councillors. Against it now just because they have so few councillors after being wiped out last year.
@Fionn Darland: I don’t think it is the amount to be honest. It is the timing i.e. the purpose of that pay increase.
@Paul Shepherd: Any comment on the “dig outs” that Bertie used to get Paul or does your selective memory allow you to comment?
@David Corrigan: When SF needed a ‘dig out’ they used just go to Northern Bank.. at night of course!
7.5 million is being spent on wage increases for councillors “during these unprecedented times” — another bid to get party members to sign up.
What magic money tree is FF/FG going to pay for this with?
I never see them improving rights for ordinary workers, instead they’d rather strip away workers’ rights in the interests of businesses.
@Dean: What rights don’t workers have? I’m a worker – my rights have been perfectly fine. Employment law is very strong in this country especially compared to say the States.
As for councillors – it is widely accepted to be a very underpaid role. Now that doesn’t get away from the general uselessness of most politicians but certainly the standard of councillor is unlikely to be improved by paying them peanuts.
@Shazam37: its public service…..if your not willing to sacrifice your sare time to help your community then why sign up in the first place……expenses should be the only thing they should be getting really, I’m sure everybody in this country personally knows a councillor who’s only in it for the money + expenses……
@Brendan Hoey: you can’t expect people with mortgages and kids and schools to pay for and all The other stuff to just work for free. That’s not realistic. People can’t do that.
Oh and I’m still waiting to what what rights have been taken away from Workers.
@Brendan Hoey: I know a lot of councillors and the ones I have worked with are certainly not doing it for the money.
Its not spare time either, it is a tremendous amount of time and research to represent the citizens of your town or city
Fine Gael on Bikes.
@Jim O Brien Tech:
FFGoB. Sounds about right.
@Cormac Laffan: Well they fish in tge same pond for voters so it’s not the worst analogy
The last time the Greens were in Government they didn’t notice the country being utterly looted with rampant corporate criminality. They stayed in government just long enough to allow Fianna Fraud utterly destroy our country.
Tail wagging the dog…. absolute bull…
A simple question to all politicians, promise to retire if you fail to deliver your promises!
@Peter O Donnell: Within 2 elections you’d have no experienced politicians. Just wouldn’t work.
For example a world wide recession would stop the most well intentioned politicians being able to deliver on promises.
@TL55: experience is overrated. Experienced politicians bankrupted this country again and again while investing in no infrastructure
Roll up roll up quickly get your head into the feeding trough buying the councillors vote.
Next week then they tell us we have got to go through austerity for the next few years as somebody has to pay for this pandemic virus.
What a country
@tuco: Can’t give a pay rises to the nurses, politicians can’t take a pay cut during a global pandemic. But county councillors can get an 8k pay rise if they support the program for government.
All the while if your lucky to get a performance bonus in work the government takes a 51% slice. FFG economy of opportunity and new way of doing government is completely deluded.
If the Greens don’t take this opportunity to get their policies implemented they will get trounced in the next election.
@Collitov: if they pull out they will get trounced. if they stay in and implement their policies they will get trounced
@Collitov: If people a hit with the economic cost of their policies they may well take a hit at the next election.
@ed w: Irish voters always take it out on the minor coalition partner in the next election, so it would follow the pattern.
Neasa hourican has shown her true colours….part of a negotiation team and won’t endorse a document saying she has to re read it? Was she not there? Was she just sitting there for most of it starting into space thinking about what minister position she would get?
@Bleurgh: most of the content of the document is extremely vague with loads of wriggle room. She has mentioned two issues specifically. The backsliding by FG on carbon reduction and the lack of a new policy re housing and homelessness. These are serious deficiencies. Bear in mind that many green voters also voted f or Sinn Fein.
@Brendan Greene: all program for government that are released is vague in detail. The woman was on the negotiation team at the table. Sitting on the fence and abstaining is not representing your voters
Anything on the 8k payrise (bribe) to councillors who support the programme?
The beginning of the end for the Greens!
They are so naive.To enter a programme that hasn’t been costed, with parties they obviously don’t trust seems like madness to me.
The Greens are really a bunch of vegetables
The best place for them is out on the Long Green Grass
is there any chance they might correct the anomaly in motor tax if they do get into power, those of us who drive a pre 08 car have to pay far more in tax the others all because of the dozy clown RYAN
@JJandtim Dwyer: That’s because of emissions and is unlikely to change.
Full of their own importance.
No. I can’t speak for others but I personally will relish taking the greens down like I did and many others did after they and FF tanked the economy last time they were in power if they sign that deal.
@Ciaran Burke: That was you?????
A chance for Greens to implement swathes of green policies. They would be ctazy not to give it the green (eco friendly) light.
Are Green pary members north of the border allowed to vote to determine if the Green party goes into government with both FG and FF. If so how can this be allowed as to the best of my knowledge they cannot vote in the 26 county general elections if they do not reside and pay taxes south of the border.
@Leonard Barry: FF have some members north of the border too now, not sure what rules apply.
They can’t if they allow a pile of FF/FG gene pool independents to formally or informally support this government which is seemingly something which is happening right now.
That should be the final of many red flags for this partnership from a green perspective.
Not a great start to supposedly working collaboratively if the junior partner is already threatening to bring the government down. We really shouldn’t be giving the remote control to a spoilt toddler!
Do people really expect the Green party to be so naive to trust ffg..do people expect the Green party to do a labour on it and sell out all their principles on entering government..they were elected on a certain platform and if say 2 years into government the crooks of ffg are reneging on the programme for government then the only course of action for the Greens is to pull the plug.
@Moss Cotter: they won’t renege – the commitments are barely there. 7% over the life of the next government? Offft what does that mean?
The last time the Greens were in power they and F.F. brought this country to it’s knees.
Jokers… complete and utter jokers
@Michael Wynne: for threatening to collapse the government if they don’t get their policies through? Surely that’s the point?
Very impressed with O’Gorman and Neassa Hourican… Much less woolly than Eamon Ryan. They are spot on….if you renege on agreed policies, we will pull the plug. Let FFFG know from the start they won’t be pushed around. Green issues are here to stay….that’s where the EU money is and we need a strong Green lobby to maximise our share. God knows we’ll need every cent from Europe to get us anywhere back to near “normal”. Time to ditch the silly uninformed caricatures of Greens as anti rural and look at their policies instead of the out of context social media clips of Eamonn Ryan driving his (bio)diesel van and carpooling suggestions….. Sad that his is about as much as a lot of people know about the Greens. Time to take the heads out of the sand and dare I say it…. the bog!!
@Jerriko17: how is raising the cost of fuel for transport and heating while undermining agriculture not anti rural? I live in a rural area. We have NO public transport links to allow me to go grocery shopping and I live 18km from the nearest small supermarket and 28km from the nearest larger supermarket. Spending buckets of money on cycling or walking infrastructure isn’t going help me use less carbon. Or do you think I can walk 56km, half of the distance carrying my shopping, just in order to eat? The pie in the sky policies are fine for middle class urbanites who have the luxury of choosing to opt for public transport or walk the couple of km to the local supermarket.
@Sara Davis: Well Sara who’s fault is that? The Greens are trying to save the environment/planet. And you’re whinging because you have no proper infrastructure. But that’s not the greens fault. They didn’t make those decisions.
FFFG made sure you and the rest of rural Ireland have no proper infrastructure. Yet you continue to vote for them and punish the greens.
Unbelievably backwards.
@Sara Davis: We have to (rural and urban) get away from fossil fuels…. That is good for Ireland.
Importation and use of fossil fuels are costing us more than any”green” taxes. What about the advantages of rural life….. I’m sure many of the so called privileged urbanites would love the space, clean air, ability to grow your own food, relative safety, cheaper cost of living, small schools… etc. Don’t blame the Greens for your choice to live 28km from a supermarket!!! FYI too…. Many working class people, young people (and old like meself) in the cities and country, progressive thinking family farmers are realising we have to go green for the sake of present and more importantly future generations both urban and rural.
Ha ha.
The greens have learned a lot from and have successfully corralled most of the herd, let the stragglers in and get out of the crush.
the Greens are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. If they don’t do a deal to be in government they will be accused of letting the voters down. On the other hand, by doing this deal-they are being called traitors. Let’s be rational here, the Greens have a manifesto and integrity to uphold. They are a minority party so they would always have had to go into government with at least one of the bigger parties on the left or right. The Green Party intentions are to make all parties green for a sustainability on this planet and be the voice of reason and fairness in many circumstances. If FFFG break the deal, the Greens would be dead right to collapse it.
They will be used as a scapegoat anyway regardless what happens, just like they were blamed for all the problems the last time they were in government even though they only had 7 TDS to the many FF TDS.
Catherine you should have realised that for fighting hard you will never be in a better position as when you where negotiating a deal for the government talks. You are the biggest disappointment for me. I tought you had much more negotiation skills. A complete U turn on fur farming and animal wellfare. goahead with greyhound and horse racing grants no deal for micro solar or wind . You and the greenparty have lost all confidence off ban the bloodsport and many more people
As a greenparty member I can only vote NO and I hope that more will vote the same
Hans Stofberg
A warning to green party members do vote NO for the greenparty deal. Here is why Catherine and the negotiating team should have realised that for fighting hard you will never be in a better position as when you where negotiating a deal for the government talks. They are the biggest disappointment for me. I tought they had much more negotiation skills. A complete U turn on fur farming and animal wellfare. goahead with greyhound and horse racing grants no deal for micro solar or wind . You and the greenparty have lost all confidence off ban the bloodsport and many more people I Can only vote NO I hope that more members will reject your deal.
Hans Stofberg
Catherine you should have realised that for fighting hard you will never be in a better position as when you where negotiating a deal for the government talks. You are the biggest disappointment for me. I tought you had much more negotiation skills. A complete U turn on fur farming and animal wellfare. goahead with greyhound and horse racing grants no deal for micro solar or wind . You and the greenparty have lost all confidence off ban the bloodsport and many more people
Hans Stofberg
No government can make hard and fast promises at the moment. Its not possible.
The inexperience of the green party at this level is showing.
The 35% decrease has to be seen as that not &% a year as it will take time to get the facilities in place to do that.
Their Housing Policy the Vienna Method is brilliant and a lot of other parties use it as well.
The finger pointing starting this early is not a good sign.
We are going into a very hard period of recovery post Covid-19. Compromises will have to be made and they do not seem to like compromise.
FG will always push their privatise line, that is who they are
You lot voted for this mess in the last election maybe next time you lot will think twice or many times before you cast that vote
@Ned: Who did you vote for then o wise one?
have your say