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THE ISLAMIC CENTRE in Blanchardstown, Dublin, has issued advice to Irish Muslims on voting in the upcoming same-sex marriage referendum.
Today, the centre said it has received many queries from Muslims living here about the referendum. In a letter from Head Imam of Al Mustafa Islamic Centre, Shaykh Umar Al-Qadri, circulated to the Muslim community, he said being entitled to vote and participate in a political process is a privilege.
He stressed thatt the referendum is not about changing Islamic marriage, but about changing marriage in the Irish constitution.
“Imams will not be obliged legally to conduct an Islamic marriage (Nikaah) between same sex couples.” However he said the referendum was not simply about equality for gay people.
The amendment will have serious consequences, as it will redefine marriage and parenthood. It will open the door to new definitions of marriage, which could extend further. These are consequences on children and future generations.
In the letter, Al-Qadri explained the Islamic tradition has always acknowledged that some people may have “homosexual impulses and this is not considered a sin in Islam”.
“To act on these sexual impulses is considered a sin in Islam.”
As Muslims we must believe in equality and inclusiveness. People should not be discriminated for any reason. It is important to humanise people and not to de humanise. The Islamic tradition teaches to hate the sin but not the sinner. The attitude of some Muslims towards homosexuals is incompatible with the spirit of mercy and kindness in Islam.
He asked Irish Muslims to keep in mind both the Islamic stance on homosexuality and the consequences of the amendment for society.
“The Irish constitution guarantees all Irish citizens the freedom of conscience and Muslims must exercise this right when voting on 22nd May 2015.”
In all fairness the advice given is no better or worse than that given by Catholic leaders. I wouldn’t have expected support but the general tone was reassuring in its moderation.
It’s the exact same stance as the Catholic Church. I don’t think either churches proposed “burning the gays”. Just cause their tone was “nice” doesn’t make their stance any less oppressive or ludicrous. But I suppose they are a minority religion, so let’s go easy is it ya? Religion is the problem here, not homosexuals!
On the subject of marriage equality, maybe The Journal could ask for his opinion on Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men.
Stone them will be the result.
Fair play Fozz, let’s ignore what they say and assume the worst. Sure they’re all the same after all, right?
Excellent question Niall. But not one that a faux latte leftist publication like the Journal is ever likely to ask. They’ll stick to the easier, softer targets like the Catholic church. They’re less likely to have rampaging gunmen try to gain access to their office that way.
Just to be clear, it is possible to be highly critical of ludicrous and outdated religious stances, without sweeping generalisations and bigotry. I criticise all religions equally, cause they’re all idiotic in my opinion, but I’ll stop short of accussing people of being terrorists just because of their beliefs and acts supposedly perpetrated in their Gods name!
Reassuring?for the yes side ?
Wise up . When /If this goes through the “gay” community will want “marriage” in churches . Although they’ll never challenge the mosque in Clonskeagh because they’ll fear a Moslem backlash .They’ll certainly be looking to get “married” in Christian churches. It’ll take a while but that’s what their agenda will boil down to – everyone will be forced to go against their conscience and will in the name of a false equality. Do not be fooled. Vote no
Criticising all religions equally is ludicrous in itself. Some are far worse then others.
J Joseph, no that won’t happen.
There are already a few religious institutes that will carry out a civil partnership as it is, and a few that will gladly carry out weddings for same-sex couples if the referendum passes. Unitarian Church is one I’ve seen.
There may be some *individuals* who would like a catholic church wedding and may fight for it, but they do not represent the whole yes-side of this debate and will certainly be in a massive minority.
We want civil marriage, that’s it. So stop with this slippery slope argument when you have nothing to base it on.
That’d mean Muslims should vote ‘Yes’ then Mr. Immam:-), wouldn’t it?
Chris,
We’re awaiting judgement in the Asher case. Bruce Arnold has pointed out what will happen to the register of solemnisers if religious solemnisers refuse to perform a marriage ceremony. You can be Catholic and Gay and refused a marriage in your church. Tell me that’s not “discrimination”.
Paul,
Ashers case is in a different jurisdiction, no? Plus, it has nothing to do with a church performing marriages. I don’t see how that’s relevant to this discussion.
It may be discrimination, but I think the Church is protected in the constitution for this, in their right to “manage their own affairs” (correct me if I’m wrong?).
Article 44 ( http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/en/constitution/index.html#article44 )
5° Every religious denomination shall have the right to manage its own affairs, own, acquire and administer property, movable and immovable, and maintain institutions for religious or charitable purposes.
And if the Church follow through with their childish threat (I’m doubtful), there may be a a temporary shortage of solemnisers until more are certified.
It’s the behaviour of the complainants in the Asher case that I’m highlighting.
Read back on the conscience clause article on here a few days ago.
Some people implied that a church that does what it does would be discriminating unlawfully.
Register of solemnisers is detailed in Civil Registration Act, 2004.
Do you understand what civil marriage is? The church offers matrimony. Lgbt people seek the legal recognition of the state under the constitution. Nothing to do with religion. I dont know one gay person who would want to be married in a Catholic Church, it is an organisation which preaches that being gay is sinful, why would they want their marriage celebration there???
Sorry above was for JJoseph not Paul
+ 1 Demise! The amount of people conflating marriage with religious ceremonary is mad. Marriage is a legal document! Civil partnership doesn’t go anywhere near marriage in terms of legal protection.
Je suis Denis
I still don’t see how the Ashers case has anything to do with what I originally posted? It’s not a religious institution, it’s a business in a different jurisdiction.
The church may be discriminating, but if they are covered by the article 44.5 that I posted above, it is not unlawfully.
Islam is allowed lie to deceive the non-believer and increase it’s standing in “kuffar” society until the day islam then takes over and then the smiles go.
This islamic deception is called “taqqiya”
J Joseph, straight people don’t want a marriage ceremony in a church anymore and you are afraid gay people will? hehe
Yeah right J Joseph, cause gay people will be queuing up to get married within an organisation that has done nothing but demonise gay people for years!
Niall their opinion on Muslim women marrying non Muslim men is “no bloody way”. However the reason for this is because in Islam children follow the religion of their father, therefore any children of such a union would not be Muslim.
Do what my brother did and “convert”. That is were an imam signs a piece of paper saying you’re a Muslim for a few quid.
@Daragh – the reason you find it reassuring is due to your ignorance of Islam. This is more deception from the Islamic centre using the permitted strategy of ‘Taqiyya’ allowed under Islam – a strategy that allows Muslims to lie provided the end goal is the advancement of Islam in a given societal context.
Spot on! As long as they are a tiny minority they will use Taqiyya but as soon as they multiply(THE HORROR!) they will defo change the tone in a total flip, the brits, belgians and dutch ppl(among other nations)are unfortunately already there!
Anyone can “want” anything ok, and yes there might be a couple or two who due to their upbringing in a cultural christian country, have dreamt since they were young of having the same kind of wedding their parents and grandparents had, the white dress etc and i do not believe any government should or would ever force a church to perform a wedding it doesnt want to(i would personally vote against tat!)! but this is about CIVIL MARRIAGE! anyway there are already a few churches, hindus and buddhists that allow same sex marriages and trust me spiritual or religious same sex couples will always have people and organisations they can turn to if rejected, the bigoted churches & mosques dont have monopoly on marriages. rest assured!
In other words, they say vote no. It’ll be tough luck for them. The gays are taking over. I for one welcome our new homosexual overlords.
Didn’t take much persuasion for you to bend over eh Simon?
See look at you Tommy , you tried to make a funny. I’m not even insulted because I don’t find the idea of being gay insulting. I just happen to not be gay. I can say it matter of factly. If someone asked you the same question I bet you’d get all defensive hah.
Now Simon, of you’re supporting same sex marriage you can’t be a “real man” like Tommy.
That Tommy and his fellow travelers seem far more concerned about what gay men get up to in the bedroom than most gay men themselves do is absolutely no reflection on their general manliness or mental health.
There’s nothing weird or creepy about supposed straight men obsessing over gay blokes having bum fun in their down bedroom. NOTHING AT ALL SUSPICIOUS ABOUT THAT. Right?
@Alan
Wonder how they feel about lesbians then, or, God beware, transgender people
Follow your head not your religion.
Well i’m voting no on 22nd May 2015. Absolutely and definitely i don’t agree with what is being proposed – its not right and i won’t have it. What’s wrong with the way things are now? i don’t think this is an issue at all. I definitely will not be voting to lower the age of voting.
Gabbi, do one ye
@Gabbi “it’s not right and I won’t have it”. Well if it passes (which looks hugely likely) then you will have no choice.
Read his comment again.
Gabbis joking fellas
I think Gabbi was referring to another referendum, guys…
Oops apologies Gabbi.
Your post serves to prove that people just read a few lines then the moral outrage appears. Well played Gabbi
Good phsyce Gabbi
Ahhhhhh Gabbi, I take it all back. You got me good man, you got me good
No to lowering the age here too. They force parents to support their offspring until 23 if separated and if in education but think they can be presidential candidates? Will their parents be forced to support their presidential campaign too?
Which HEAD lol.
I’ve seen that mercy and kindness in action when they hang gay men from cranes in Iran.
And from ISIS when they either stone the gays or throw them to their deaths from minarets.
And Hamas who many defend here
yes because all muslims are in ISIS and hang gay people from cranes.
muppets,
FFS! Not all Muslims are ISIS and Hamas.
There really are some idiots on this site
And all catholics are paedophiles and in the IRA….
They?
Tarring a whole population of people based on the actions of a minority, good idea. That’s always worked out well in the past.
@Charles Rex. 8 gays to be exact last Christmas Day and left hanging there all day ’til darkness. An Islamic smack in the face for both gays and Christianity.
As for the topic muslims understand there is one face for the kafir and another for the faithful.
Back into your buggy, Conor..fool
Not all Muslims are in ISIS…..but……All ISIS members are Muslim.
What do they do to gays in Mecca Saudi Arabia? The holiest city in Islam. Every Muslim might not approve. But most are willing to turn a blind eye.
So right..a bit of a contradiction…lefty agitators, doggy poets and Rent a Mob who spout human rights but are so silent when muslim men are butchered in Syria for been gay; when there is no American or Israel bashing angle in it they have no interest. A bit like feminist writer’s here who were silent in condemming the attempted murder of a 14 yr old Pakistani girl looking for access to education for women in a region ran by Mad Mullahs.
Muslim
Do any of you remember the time when all irish are not terrorists but all terrorists are irish. All you wankbags should remember that when casting out you diatribes. That being said Muslims do have two faces indeed, one for outside the mosque and the other for inside.
I am voting YES as love is a hard commodity to find and wherever you find it it should be cherished. Why shouldn’t the state recognise the Union of two consenting adults.
never gotten any abuse from a Muslim here as a trans woman, and there’s a fair few of them in Cork. only ever irish skangers.
I was expecting a much more hard lined call on their congregations to vote no. Im surprised and a little humbled by their open ended approach to this
Really? Humbled by ‘its ok to be gay but don’t you dare act on it’? It strikes me as ridiculous or at least speaking out of both sides of their mouth.
Well the Catholic church are giving a much more staunch call for a No vote, Humbled might have been a bit of a stretch alright but I do feel for a religious organisation to use such ambiguous terms around the issue is rare. they can still feck off though. are you up for that?
Damien, it is rare.
i do think it is very self conscious because they probably know lots of people expected them to say no outright like all other religions.
in fairness we have had some catholic priests come out in defence of equality so there is hope for having a modern that removes the church from state but allows religion to flourish if people want it. .
Nothing ambiguous on what they wrote, I felt extremely offended and hurt by the letter of this muslim orgaisaton.
There was a discussion on 4FM about the upcoming referendum on Wednesday afternoon and the Muslim Cleric debating with the Irish woman pointed out that there are 70,000 Muslims in Ireland currently and not one of them is gay. There are no gay Muslims in Ireland!!! I couldn’t stop laughing, it reminded me of a time not so long ago when there were no gay Catholics in Ireland. Apparently, all Muslims are good Muslims and good Muslims despise Homosexuality. My daughter’s boyfriend is almost 20, an extremely moderate Muslim and even he feels that way. They have a very long way to come but hopefully they’ll get there.
You would want to put your daughter wide
@Andrea Rock Massey. Was the goof aware that Pakistan,for one, is a Muslim country where 90%of the 1.5 million homeless kids are regularly raped even by the cops,etc.
See full article. Now there are reports coming of another travesty. According to reports from Pakistan, over 90 percent of the 1.5 million homeless children have been raped.
According to an article by the Toronto Sun, rape in Pakistan is so common that it is barely taboo. For example, a bus driver in Peshawar says that after his shift is over, he likes to head to the slums to rape street kids. Sometimes he will pay them a dollar, but most of the time he doesn’t. Instead, he just joins the violent gang rapes. He even tells a story of a boy that was raped on his bus.
“Once, there was a boy on the bus and everyone had sex with him. I did it too but what else could I do? They invited me. And he was that kind of boy anyways.”
http://www.inquisitr.com/1475457/horrifying-reality-in-pakistan-90-percent-of-1-5-million-homeless-children-raped/
My daughter doesn’t believe in God at all and it really bugs her that he has this attitude towards homosexuality but what can you do? As I said, he is extremely moderate (he’s never been to a Mosque, he doesn’t honour Ramadan, he celebrated Christmas here with us and he even eats ham). The only part he actually seems to celebrate is Eid (not sure of the spelling) as that is like their Christmas and they receive gifts and money etc (so not much different to a lot of Catholics here). But this idea about Homosexuality is ingrained in him and it will take some time before that changes. But it’s not just Religious people who are against gay marriage, I know a few people planning to vote no and they don’t believe in God at all.
Your daughters boyfriend is about as Muslim as I am black and I’m ginger…..
Andrea, do you know of those 70k, how many are Irish citizens and eligible to vote on this?
When were there no gay catholics in Ireland ? I remember a gay couple in the sixties and nobody seemed to care…nice folk they were.
The fact that the Muslims have a word for gay in their own language means there must have been gay Muslims but in deference to their religion they could not be public about it. Go back to as late as the 1980s in Ireland you will find the attitude here was very Muslimesque where gays were concerned.
That’s what I was saying Finn (tongue in cheek). There was never a time when there were no gay Catholics, there was just a time when gay Catholics couldn’t admit they were gay. The same is obviously true for the gay Muslims here now, they just cannot admit it.
@ Lloyd, I have no idea how many can vote.
Don’t mention Sheffield it offends to PC brigade.
A few years ago I briefly went out with a Muslim girl who “wasn’t very religious”. She still believed, it turned out, that “the Jews” did 9/11 and that she would give her kids Muslim names.
Needless to say it didn’t last long but people being “culturally Muslim”, i.e. not observant but have the same attitude towards gays and women, is a huge problem in Europe and the UK. You’d almost wish they were a bit more observant which might at least temper some of the aggression towards those groups (a bit like ‘secular Christians’).
most young muslims are pro-LGBT. i know several queer muslims in their 20s.
it’s more of a generational thing like it is here really. most of their anti-LGBT laws also come from colonial times too. a lot of muslim history has been kind of overwritten or forgotten, there was a time when it was the most progressive and forward thinking religion in the world. Turkey legalised homosexuality 150 years before Ireland did.
tbh the support of muslims means more to me than the average catholic/agnostic/whatever Irish person since they actually know what it’s like to be oppressed. i think that the average irish person is codding themselves as to how progressive this country really is. we only shut down the last magdalene laundry in the mid 90s yet we still love to point the finger at how Muslims “treat their women”.
I wished the best to your daughter :D But with all honesty her boyfriend sounds like an a*hole! -.-
How would he feel if Ireland decided to hav a refredum to ban islam and all people came out saying how being a muslim is sinul and wrong and therefore they shoudkn’t have the same right as everyone else? I thinky ou should seriously pose the question
Ya gotta think the fact this referendum is taking place to begin with must be so irritating for them. That’s right lads. Keep that smiling loving tolerant happy face on you.
fair enough.
It obviously goes against their teachings but they respect the process of democracy and they now the result won’t impact on them.
this is kind of a counterpoint to Iona who seem more fundamentalist and demand that the whole of society dance to their tune.
Exactly stopit, if you compare them with the IONA guys, then those Muslims come across as very open minded, and I take the advise they give to their followers to vote Yes, as they see a Yes vote will have no impact on their religious marriages and even though they consider homosexuality a sin (a bit more than backward IMO) they do not preach hatred.
A lot of commenters on here seem to think all Muslims are hardcore fundamentalist terrorists liek the ilk of ISIS and Hamas, but they are not.
Those guys from the Islamic Centre have copped on that the referendum is about Civil marriage and nothing else and don’t resort to misinformation and scaremongering like IONA and co.
Larrisa
How long have you been in ireland to have such an insight into the mind of catholic or rural ireland
Because you do seem to go into one when you mention iona and dont seem to understand that there is more to ireland than your limited experience of it.
As regards irish Muslims
I am very close with very many muslims through business and sporting activities
And if you heard them after the gay pride parade you would be in no doubt as to their thoughts on the mattet
John Ferry
Everyone on here knows you are xenophobic and homophobic to boot, so don’t try to convince anyone you actually care about anyone’s rights, and as for you knowing Muslims who are homophobic, well, quelle surprise, like and like and so.
By the way, this will be the last time I engage with you, from now on, I’ll just ignore your rants.
Your a nut bag john… The Iona institute is a group for other nut bag, homophobic, racist people like yourself. They in no way represent any me in rural Ireland.
Robert
Beautiful
More empty words
You guys are not able to engage when some one raises issues you do not agree with.
I raised valid points.
And larrissa. I dont mean homophobic muslims.
I mean that nearly every muslim i know.
And i know many are not for gay rights.
Thats their belief. .
You wont change it
I wont change it.
But keep waffling.
No john you are simply ranting. Thankfully you don’t represent the views of most logical people. Also the only bully here is you, as you have singled out Larissa because she is not irish.
@robery – “ye mad nutbag”… Lol it’s comments like that which make me home sick! :-)
Very good robert
More deflection
Engage with the issue
You are all condeming the iona institute
But they represent the views of a lot of irish people both here in dublin in rural ireland and.abroad
You think larrissa who has no clue about the irish people outside her small band of spotty students and loony left liberals haa the right to prejudge irish people who she doesnt know because it does not suit her position.
When i lived abroad i respected the fact that i was in some one else country which had its own way of doing things.. i certainly wouldn’t do what larrissa does and condem and prejudge large sections of the population. .especially when. I know nothing about them.
This shite about ireland in the eighties and how backward it was..
Yes it was that backward and selfish that when live aid was on in 85 ireland was the biggest contribute r perm captia.
Yes it was thay back ward that when i came here from the uk in the 80s they had shops which were open all.nigjt which we didnt have in the uk at the time.
Have you guys ever beem anywhere.
You are spouting the same old shite i have heard since the eighties and before.
And you have the. Cheek to call other people backward.
Run along now
@John Ferry
Spelling and grammar are not your strengths, are they?
You know I was talking this over with my wife last night (she’s a woman, least any of your liberals have redefined “wife” to mean something else in your weird little heads) and we both agreed we’d be voting no.
We were going to vote no anyway, but my wife (female – again, because you lot can’t be trusted) had a really bad day because a colleague at work spilled coffee on some paper work. This colleague, later, revealed she was voting in favour of the homosexual agenda to redefine marriaage and destroy the family, we though her behaviour and general recklessness when it came to controlling coffee is exactly the kind of thing you’d expect from homosexuals and thus this was reason enough to vote no.
Further to that I love my wife (still female, a real female!) and should gays be allow to marry it would, somehow, destory our marriage by undermining it and redefining it and we’d probably never have sex again or have children again and the children we do have will probably grow up gay.
Poofs are fine and I have no problem with whatever filthy sodomy they want to get up to but if we vote for homosexual marriage they’ll be doing it in classrooms and this will cause more gay children, AIDS and cancer.
I and my wife welcome this godless muslim’s support in opposing the disgraceful homosexual agenda lead gaystapo destruction of good honest christian marriage. While he’ll still probably burn in hell at least he won’t be anywhere near the gays who’ll probably be burning be in the worst bit… where there’s a drought and uncomfortable chairs.
VOTE NO TO EVERYTHING!!!!!
*insert obligatory link to Bruce Arnold’s discredited ranting here*
I’m still laughing Alan….great satire..u should send it into the Indo or IT letters section:-)
What do you mean “great satire”?!
@Alan
I knew it! You’re secretly in league with these pesky IONA people
You should write one for Waterford Whispers Alan. Gave me a good laugh :-)
Damn it Larissa… I was doing to well recruiting bigots to the cause by being mean on the internet (because as you well know the “I was going to vote yes but the attitude of yes supporter…” shower are entirely truthful when they make this claim) and now my mask has slipped.
VOTE NO TO GAYS HAVING BUM SEX IN PLAYSCHOOLS!
What the hell?
I’m voting Alan…
You can vote for me if you like, but I’m not marrying you!
What if I’m a lesbian?
@David Cagney:
If you’re a lesbian you should go back to Beirut!
He all but told them to vote no.
Where?
Compare this statement to some made by christian churches – fundamental ideals are fundamental ideals regardless of the god.
Jason read between the lines………………
“The amendment will have serious consequences, as it will redefine marriage and parenthood. It will open the door to new definitions of marriage, which could extend further. These are consequences on children and future generations.”
There’s no need to read between the lines to find a meaning that I would like to project on a statement, especially when this quote directly follows:
“As Muslims we must believe in equality and inclusiveness. People should not be discriminated for any reason.”
The Imam quite clearly stressed that the changes will have absolutely no impact on Islamic marriages so Muslims should put fairness and equality above their own perceived ideals of Islamic marriage. You are searching for prejudice where there is none to be found.
Jason I think we both have valid points and maybe agree to differ on our interpretation.
I think it was very carefully worded to give succor to those who were leaning towards voting no and also those who were leaning towards voting yes.
Most Muslims, like most people, couldn’t give a flying f**k what other people get up to so long as they don’t offend Allah. The statement pretty much confirms this. It also allows those muslims who will vote no know that they’re not doing anything wrong in the eyes of Allah either.
They’re doing the sensible thing and keeping religion out of it as much as they can.
John religion should be kept out of it it’s about CIVIL MARRIAGE EQUALITY
LOL @ John Ferry
Imagine crying because a gay person who wants equality is standing up against a bigoted “catholic” who wants to impose his baclassways nonsense on her.
G’wan and sh*te!
Denise
You could be right
But what a lot if people dont seem to understand us that their religion to them is reality.
You only have to look at Isis.
But larrisa who knows nothing about rural ireland and their catholic beliefs consistently calls them backward.
This us some one who has come to this country and feels she has the right to critise their religion.
Why come to a country if you dont agree with their culture.
Alan brilliant
Empty words as usual
How do you kmow i am not a muslim
I didnt say i was a Catholic
I made valid points but larrisa did not want to answer them
Because she kmows it will not male her look very tolerant or else make her look ignorant.
Alan i am.listening to this shite for 30 years.
You are saying nothing new.
So forgive everyone John…..
I still can’t get my head around why what goes on in someone’s bedroom, or the way someone is born is – in this day and age – of such concern to people. I can’t understand why people need me to obey their religious beliefs too. I obey the law of the land and I work hard and pay tax and don’t affect anyone else from living. However, this isn’t enough to be treated equally. In this run-up my life has been questioned and compared with criminals. Religion belongs in a church, its not a political podium from which to spread your ignorance and hatred. And anyone who says they are voting ‘No’ for religious reasons better have a perfect record. The bible is not a pick a mix of rules for your convenience.
I think that’s the toned down “public” speech.
When in reality that ‘hate the sin not the sinner’ line translates as no one being openly gay and still respected.
And I think they’re trading off the hope that the RCC are right & religious organisations will always be allowed to discriminate no matter how this election goes.
Was just thinking that too. This message is really for Irish non-Muslims. It’s a ‘islam is a lovely tolerant religion really’ PR exercise. Inside the mosques, the real message won’t nearly be so moderate. It scares me that they get to vote on this.
Abbi
Who exactly are they discriminating against? Having a personal belief does not equal discrimination. It’s not as if they’re having anti-gay protests, verbally abusing anyone or burning gays at the stake. If anything, minority religions are now discriminated against for not conforming to the Yes sides definition of marriage. You all scream equality, but don’t respect opposing beliefs.
I do respect their beliefs, they don’t respect mine. They seek to deny access to civil marriage which has nothing to do with them to lgbt people. I don’t seek to deny them anything. Whether I share their beliefs or not they can still live in accordance with them. But when they vote to deny my right to marry, they impose their beliefs onto me. That’s where the unfairness lies. As that former priest said a few weeks ago render unto ceasar what is ceasars. You vote with the whole country in mind not with your religious beliefs. You are free to live by them but you shouldn’t expect everyone else to.
I had a chuckle trying to visualise a gay marriage in a mosque!
Why are religions viewpoints on this being publicised?? How are their opinions relevant. The views of the plumbers union, post office workers group, any group at all are as relevant. Religious views should be private. They should have no say in anyone else’s life. This place is still backward. Maybe 2 or 3 generations down the line things will look up if the human race is still going
Because a significant number of people are far more likely to follow the instructions of their religious leaders than the president of the Institute of Master Craftsmen. I wish that were not the case, but it is.
The Institute of Crafty Halal Butchers will be gutted!!
It’s just sad we have to lower the bar so low to find a standard we think is acceptable for them. They get a pass. Hate the sin and not the sinner? Naaah they still need to get a grip. Maybe one day.
It’s funny how so many people here detest the intolerance and hatred associated with Islam and respond to any story about Muslims with intolerance and hatred.
You are confusing intolerance and hatred of the Muslim religion with intolerance and hatred of Muslim people.
People will generally adopt the customs and traditions of their surroundings which can’t be faulted so we need to be clear that it is this belief system that we want rid of an not the people.
The sooner they all simply opened their eyes to the magic of reality the better.
… so hate the sin not the sinner? exactly what they’re saying?
Do people not have their own minds?? Pathetic if anyone bases what they do and how they vote on what a religion tells them to
Hate mindless cults, not the mindless cult followers!
Oh you said “cult”… for a second there I though you were talking about Breeder O’Brien and her band of merry bigots.
What’s an ‘L’ or a ‘C’ amongst God Warriors!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns
Or even an ‘N’!
Sorry but 1 cult leader with crazy ideology is one thing, it’s another all together when 10000 people willingly choice to believe and follow him and carry out his twisted bidding. These are the people I fear as they are not the ones dressed in gold screaming but behind you with a knife when they act on their delusional beliefs.
And that’s Word Wang!
Think of the Children™
It is easy to point the finger at muslims or islam regarding their attitude to homosexuality but a short hope to eastern Europe or Russia and you will find them equally intolerable and just as quick to act on their intolerance.
So no surprise that the fundamentalists all line up together ! Is that not the same stupid ” hate the sin not the sinner ” nonsense that the catholic church spouts ! Bet iona and all the other idiots love having the muslims on their side !?!?!?!
You misspelt fatwa.
Fat wan
Fat wahhhhh!!
Meh , waiting for the advice from a Muslim institute .. Anything with the credible status of an institute in Ireland really …..
Wonder if they’ll join in a coalition with Iona ,the DUP and the Catholic bishops
Grabs popcorn
Fair play. Reasonable response in my opinion. In many ways more tolerant than the scolding from the catholic and other churches. Religion is waning in Ireland anyway. They all need to get people back on side and move with the times.
Religion has been the cause of war and conflict for thousand’s of years
I suspect “religion is waning in Ireland” isn’t entirely accurate, I’d be fairly certain that Islam in Ireland is growing and growing rapidly.
If that is the case it’s welcome to see that such an issue is dealt with with such moderation.
So it’s tolerant and moderate to treat gay sex as a sin? Has anyone told the DUP?
Shall skip even reading the advice given, on the basis of the consequence their supporting/allowing teenage offspring head off to Arab Spring protests in Cairo, some of whom are still there stuck behind bars. Thanks but no thanks.
I must be reading a different article. The second quote to my reading would imply a yes vote is suggested?
Yes, or at the very least a ‘we don’t have an opinion on this’ stance. Bit deceptive.
” The Islamic tradition teaches to hate the sin but not the sinner ”
i.e “We don’t hate you, we just hate what you are and want to make you feel awful for acting on your natural feelings”
All religion is crap
Excuse me but are we accepting too much anti Islam propaganda here? IS are an anti Muslim death cult, supported originally by the US and the UK to fight their dirty war against Russia and Syria? Chechen terrorism is ok with Obama and Cameron but not when it comes home to Boston or London? ‘ Barrel bombs’ are bad but ‘Daisy Cutters’ are ok with these hypocrites?
I hope these clerics reminded many of the Muslim community that they need to have citizenship to vote in the referendum. A colleague of mine has lived here now for 16 years he was telling me what way he was going to vote. But refuses to apply for citizenship.
He was not pleased when I told him the law requires that he be a citizen to vote in referendums.
If your partner is a goat, surely same sex partnership should be normal by comparison.
I’d just like to take this opportunity to say to our Muslim brothers on behalf of The people of the Book.
Welcome aboard.
Good that we are united on this one.
Why would you even publish this crap yet spout.
Their religion, their rules…just like the Christian churches. State and religion are not joined at the hip any more in Ireland
Shi’ite!
The actual fact that I am reading this disturbs me in a big way.
Journalists wont ask the Imam`s any pertinent or hard questions for fear of being labelled islamphobic.
But the people are way ahead of the media on this one as you can see by the comments here and elsewhere, they know the score.
In short, “it doesn’t affect us because none of us are gay anyway, but let the infidel girly-men do whatever they want in the meantime”.
I did like the inclusiveness bit, though. And the being entitled to vote bit. Assuming you vote for the right things, of course.
Who is giving any guidance to the Travellers on whether to go for a No / Yes vote? It’s preferable to be born with a donkey’s head in that community than to be born gay. Coz your Daddy would “have to bate it outa ta”!! Just sayin….
Nothing revelatory here then , should have just had an extra slice of toast and read the newspaper instead of issuing this waste of ATP
Muslims are allowed up to 4 wives. What is the Imam’s opinion on not being allowed up to 4 wives under Irish law?
I cannot argue with the Iman, what he says is correct according to the Koran, and expressed with compassion, but what I can do is to post this link to an initiative born from love and needless loss:
http://www.nazandmattfoundation.org/
Idiots!
Do not try to make this referendum look like it is about more than it really is -.-
FIrst he tries to act all nice in his “moderate” tone (hint: there is no moderate prejudice!) and then moves on to claim acts of love are sinful!
Who is he, what is this orgnaisation to judge what acts of love should be accepted and which ones should not?!
Love is beautiful and amazing and pure in all of its forms, as long as the people getting married are of age and consent to it then there is nothing wrong.
He may try to look moderate, but there is no difference between this organisation and ISIS or the Catholic Inquisition. All of them promoted prejudice and hatred and then try to cover it in a more “moderate” tone of voice.
I refuse to accept it when a catholic priest thinks he has the right to judge me I refuse the same for any muslim!
I wonder how they would feel if there was a referendum to ban islam and people made the same comments “Allowing islam to exist is against our nature and it could change entirely the country. Muslims are not exactly sinful, but embracing this barbaric religion is a sin, we must accept them, but deny them their basic rights.”
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