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File photo of Jimmy Carr. Hannah McKay/PA
jimmy carr
New laws would hold Netflix to account over Carr’s Holocaust joke, says UK Culture Secretary
Nadine Dorries said the joke was ‘shocking and abhorrent and unacceptable’.
2.48pm, 5 Feb 2022
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UK CULTURE SECRETARY Nadine Dorries has suggested new laws would hold to account streaming sites from airing jokes such as those made by Jimmy Carr about the travelling community and the Holocaust.
Carr issued a “trigger warning” to the audience at the beginning of his one-hour Netflix special, His Dark Material, admitting his performance contained “terrible things”.
In a widely-shared clip from the show, Carr joked about the horror of the Holocaust and “six million Jewish lives being lost” before in the punchline making a disparaging remark about the deaths of thousands of gypsies at the hands of the Nazis.
But Dorries suggested that in the future, new laws would “hold Netflix to account” for such content.
Speaking on BBC Breakfast she said: “We are looking at legislation via the Media Bill which would bring into scope those comments from other video on-demand streaming outlets like Netflix.
“So it’s interesting that we’re already looking at future legislation to bring into scope those sort of comments.”
Dorries said the comments were “abhorrent and they just shouldn’t be on television”, but it was put to her that in a tweet in 2017 she had claimed that “left-wing snowflakes are killing comedy”.
She said: “Well, that’s not comedy.
“What Jimmy Carr did last night is not comedy.
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“And you know, I’m no angel on Twitter, nobody is, but I just would like to say that nothing I’ve ever put on Twitter has been harmful or abusive.
“But that last night… Jimmy Carr’s comments, no one can call that, you know, snowflake or wokeishness, that’s just… it was just appalling.”
She said the comments were “shocking and abhorrent and unacceptable, not just because he was making fun on the basis of people who died in the most appalling circumstances, but on the pain and suffering of many thousands of families”.
She told Times Radio: “We don’t have the ability now, legally, to hold Netflix to account for streaming that but very shortly we will.”
Asked on Sky News if there was any way this new law would put restrictions on free speech, she said: “No, absolutely not. We’ve been very, very… well because I’m a Conservative, I’ve been very, very careful about that.”
The Traveller Movement, a charity supporting the traveller community in the UK, said: “This is truly disturbing and goes way beyond humour.”
In a tweet, the charity said: “We need all your support in calling this out #StopTravellerHate @StopFundingHate.”
The charity has launched a petition to Netflix calling for the “removal of the segments of His Dark Material which celebrates the Romani genocide”.
Not-for-profit organisation the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust shared a statement on Twitter from their chief executive Olivia Marks-Woldman who was “horrified” to hear “gales of laughter” following Carr’s remarks.
The Auschwitz Memorial called for Carr to “learn about the fate of some 23 thousand Roma & Sinti deported to Auschwitz” in a tweet to their 1.2 million followers.
A representative for Carr has been contacted for comment.
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@Tony Donoghue: Shockingly enough, people are differant. Some people eat excrement for sexual gratification, which makes no sense to me. Even worse, some people find Mrs. Browns Boys funny.
@Tony Donoghue: looked at the clip and found it hilarious and I liked his explainer after it, his mosquito aids jokes is more close to the bone than this one
@Tony Donoghue: Not all jokes at a comedy show are going to land with everyone. Its literally in the title “His dark material”. People sensitive to dark jokes probably best avoid it. Those that watch it and complain that its offensive have only themselves to blame. Be
These jokes are unfunny & in bad taste, but this talk of holding accountable & censorship is the greatest threat to free speech today. Lambaste him all you want but don’t try to censor him.
@Quiet Goer: to quote the man himself ‘Freedom of Speech is just that, but it shouldn’t be freedom from consequences’ Jimmy Carr.
He is free to say it, but there is also freedom for people to call him out on it and hold him accountable for his words.
@D. Memery: Accountable how? And where do you draw the line?
Should guidelines be published going forward on how to correctly write a joke to ensure nobody anywhere finds any offense to it?
If following the guidelines, someone is still offended, can the comedian still be held to account or should the government be held to account as the guidelines did not take the scenario into account?
Jesus lads it’s a comedy act – enjoy it or turn it off. No need to suppress it.
@D. Memery: i suppose the consequences should be along the lines of ticket sales & declining popularity. I dont think the government needs to be involved.
@Gavin Conran: accountable as in expressing disagreement and advocating not watching his shows. Unfortunately finding offense is a very subjective thing, so determining if something is generally offensive within a society requires people to express their disapproval, without of course impinging upon others rights. Quite a balancing act really.
As for government, well, I’ve fallen myself for the usual error, really what we are referring to here is freedom of expression, freedom of speech is the right to express an opinion without the government interfering in that right without lawful reason, and requires a higher bar to curtailing that freedom, and generally entails not just stopping the causing of offense, but rather where one advocates for, or actively, impinges upon another’s rights.
@Gavin Conran: the people who consider racist jokes funny are people who grew up in societies as in Ireland whereby everybody much around you were much the same as you is rc, white,, same culture etc.. So you there fore were never picked on for being different as you were the same as your school mates, nieghbours, etc?
..so you find I’d easy to laugh at others from your safe comfort zone.!
@D. Memery: without freedom from consequences (at least legal ones) you can’t have freedom of speech. If people don’t like what he says then they should vote with their feet and stop buying his videos, going to his concerts etc but this getting for cancel culture and legal consequences is censorship. The irony about the left is that in their struggle to stop people saying anything derogatory about anything they are censoring everyone.
@Colm O’Leary: Nadine Dorries is the right wing Tory minister who called Jimmy Carr out and who’s proposing legislation to hold streaming services to account so what’s all this about the left trying to censor everyone? Seems like the left is a convenient whipping boy for everything you’re opposed to.
No!!!! Just put a trigger warning on the video thumbnail. Netflix already posts warnings in the top left of the screen. If you’re easily triggered, don’t watch… It’s simple. This sanitization of content if appalling. As adults we should be free to watch what we want. And content producers should be free to produce the content they want. As bad as the joke was, I abhor censorship.
@Pat Doran: Patrick it must be very cosy being brought up in A society Whereby every one around you are much the same as you are.. Ie irish, rc, white, same culture, with out being singled out as being different.
…. And therefore to be able to laugh at other outside of your safe comfort zone in the name of free speech!!
@Victor Feldman: my brother happens to be married to a Romanian girl. And I’ve dated many non-nationals myself, so I take exception to you stereotyping me and my ilk such that we’re so privileged we can laugh at whoever we want. I found the joke tasteless myself. But you go on living with your own false narrative sher.
Firstly a joke is a joke, someone or something is usually the butt end of a joke. Some are funny to some, others not, it’s subjective.
2nd. The Irish have been the butt end of jokes for centuries, have you never heard of those ‘Paddy’ jokes. Also the Irish have been discriminated for centuries across the world.
@Victor Feldman: and it must be fantastic being pemantly offended. I don’t know how you cope with life but for most people if they don’t want to hear something they turn away. They don’t run to the police and try to get people censored!
@Pat Doran: the absolute irony though is that it started as jokes and cartoons too, or it was apart of it at least in the propaganda that led to the holocaust!
@Kevin Thompson: I mean, I’m not a snowflake, Kevin, so it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. In much the same way as I’m not offended when American TV shows stereotype me as being a drunk, or a leprechaun.
@Tom Molloy: That’s how people work. If someone took offence to everything equally they wouldn’t be able to function. And don’t for a minute pretend you’re any different.
@Anna Carr: the issue is he wouldn’t make jokes against certain races for example, he just makes jokes about groups who have no voice that he thinks he can get away with.
@Geoff Dolan: Geoff, The Gypsy community in Europe has been looked down on for centuries. General opinion was as still is by many people that they are untrustworthy. There was little outcry from the world in general when 23,000 were put to death. Jimmy Carr’s joke referred to this as a positive! This probably was the general opinion so for that reason it’s a play on people’s hypocrisy in relation to the matter.
@Geoff Dolan: its a type of comedy thats about pushing boundaries and making people laugh at things that cross lines. Jimmy Carr has said on many occasions, he is not making speeches or pushing an agenda, he is making jokes, many in bad taste, pointing out hypocrisy and getting people to laugh at things they didn’t know they would, even though it crosses the line into bad taste, many are just a bare structure in which the listener fills in the blanks.
He even sets these jokes up in incremental stages, telling the audience to hold on, its going to get uncomfortable, as he pushes the envelope further and further.
Its really like the involuntary laugh at somebody slipping or falling over, you don’t want them to be hurt, its not what’s funny, its the unexpected nature of it..
This world is fast turning into a place that I’ll be glad to leave behind whenever the time comes. If you don’t want to watch don’t watch, people are hypersensitive these days and getting more so.
“Lies in joke” are worryingly common and widely used in modern media and entertainment. And yet they have been afraid to produce an “Imam Ted” for example.
Fr. Ted was written by Irish people familiar with the topic.
If some Egyptian Muslims get round to writing an Imam Ted, good for them.
If you want non-Muslims from a non-Muslim country to write an Imam Ted, you’re getting into Bernard Manning or Roy Chubby Brown strands of comedy.
If you want to do offensive routines like that, and gas light andd belittle people for being offended by such, you’re a not witty, edgy or smart. You’re just an obnoxious bore
@Geoff Dolan: Agreed. The best comedy has truth to it and the comic speaks from the heart and can laugh at themselves first and foremost. P.G. Wodehouse knew and understood upper class twits, that’s what makes Jeeves and Wooster so funny. Same with the Pythons and the British class system in general, and John Cleese creating a pathetic social crawler like Basil Fawlty. Rob McElhenney does it with Irish Americans in It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Comedians like Bernard Manning would claim to be equally offensive to everyone but Manning would never make fun of working class northerners i.e. his main audience.
Comedy is like anything else- write what you know.
@Geoff Dolan: The Fr Ted sitcom has made Catholicism the most endearing religion and proved that it unlike other religions and ideologies can smile rather than hate in response. Try it.
Archbishop Martin tweeted: “I am shocked that producer/editor of ‘NYE Countdown Show’ @RTE @RTEOne didn’t realise how deeply offensive was a mocking ‘news report’ accusing God or rape & reporting his imprisonment. This outrageous clip should be removed immediately & denounced by all people of goodwill.”
He continued: “To broadcast such a deeply offensive and blasphemous clip about God & our Blessed Mother Mary during the Christmas season on ‘NYE Countdown Show’ on @RTE, @RTEOne & on Eve of the Solemn Feast of Mary, Mother of God is insulting to all Catholics and Christians.”
@David F. Dwyer: So the British produced Fr Ted was written by Catholic two priests ? They did a great job of making people see priests as human. Most priests have a lively sense of humour from the intense work and experience they have.
@Tom Molloy: Father Ted was written by two Irishmen who were raised Catholic, and produced by a company who had the resources and saw potential in it. Linehan and Matthews were well informed and certainly within their rights to lampoon nonsense that had, as it has been most of the country, forced on them since birth until reaching the age of reason.
I’m sorry, were you trying to make a point? Care to address the archbishop’s mirthless response to the Waterford Whispers News sketch on RTÉ?
@Tom Molloy: Who gives a hang where the money comes from. The creative is Irish. G’way ye gombeen and write another whiney blog about your old lady. That last one gave me a bloody good laugh.
This is another in a long line of attacks on free speech.
You don’t have to like the joke to see that he has a right to free speech. He is a performer, and while may find his show abhorrent, it his his right to say what he wants.
If you don’t agree with his right to say something you find abhorrent, then you don’t believe in free speech.
@Victor Feldman: you’re kind of missing the point. Technically you can, if you want everyone to hate you and call you a total cųnt, and for no entertainment channel to show a comedy show by you again. However if it becomes *illegal* for you to do so, and you’re getting fined or worse, now we have a problem.
@David Bourke: This isn’t free speech, this is abuse. How are the Roma gypsies supposed to defend themselves against someone who says their genocide was a positive? I went to view the clip ready to defend him, but it wasn’t even said as a joke , it was just said to shock. How would we feel if we were in London in the 80s, say, and someone came in stage and said the blight destroyed a potato crop – but look on the the bright side, it killed a million Paddies?
@Thomas O’ Donnell: Ya were are so lucky that there has never been any racist anti-Irish jokes.
As for the famine, if a joke was made and Im sure there have been plenty, its a joke.
Better a joke than headlines in a UK newspaper saying ‘ A Celt on the banks of the shannon will soon be as rare as a red man in manhattan ‘.
He’d be a right crunt for saying it, but it would be his right to do so. If you support free speech, you must support the right for people to say things you hate.
He’s been doing this for years. He made a joke about paedophilia before that I found extremely offensive so you know what I did? I stopped watching him! I will not watch any program that he is on and I don’t watch his ‘specials’. His popularity relies on an audience. If his audience turns away then he no longer has a platform. I haven’t heard his supposed joke and people are right to pull him up on it when it is offensive BUT censoring him or Netflix officially for this is a dangerous step in the wrong direction. Vote with your feet!
@Stephen Walshe: srephen have you ever as an irishman ever been picked and insulted for being irish… You haven have you!! It has never been in your experience has it.. As all around you were much the same as you..
How far would a uk comedien get, if he made jokes about the famine or the troubles or long Kesh.!??
All in the name of free speech..
@Victor Feldman: The Irish have been the butt of jokes for centuries but we give as good as we get so we don’t care and you would do well to learn a bit more about the Irish before you start making assumptions.
@colmgarvey: You speaking for all Irish people when you say they didn’t care. A lot of Irish people have spoken of the horrible anti Irish abuse they got working in England in the past. They should probably have been told to shut up, it’s only a joke?
His comedy is drawing attention to something that is generally overlooked. Also if you Don like his comedy then don’t watch/listen to him but sensorship just because some people get offered is definitely a removal of free speech.
I wonder if all those abhorring censorship in this case would feel the same way if it were someone making jokes about paedophiles and child abuse? I reckon the answer would be a likely no and that some people here are being disingenuous with professing their anti-censorship views. Everything should be fair game for comedians if you don’t believe in censorship no matter how horrible, depraved or immoral it may seem to some. If you don’t agree then it means you’re in favour of selective censorship for things you find offensive or distasteful, which is what the reaction to Jimmy Carr’s joke is all about. To censor or not to censor? Who decides what’s in the interests of ‘public decency’? It’s a bit of a conundrum to be sure and one that I don’t think has any halfway satisfactory solution…
@Sal Paradise: I’ve seen him do that but that’s not what I’m referring to. I’m talking about someone telling jokes about the subject that even many of his fans would consider pretty gross and sick. I’ve heard those type of jokes and even Jimmy Carr wouldn’t repeat them, at least not publicly. He’s pandering to a particular market and he’s not going to endanger his livelihood. I don’t find Jimmy Carr offensive. He can be quite funny. What I find fascinating though is the number of people who seek to defend him and cry ‘censorship’ yet would be the first to demand that comedians whose shtick is racism and sexism or right-wing views be silenced. You’re either for censorship or you’re not and that’s the nub of the matter. You can’t have it both ways. I’m still undecided. It’s a tough one…
@William Tallon: how could anyone be for censorship the whole thing is ridiculous either like him or dislike him that’s really all this needs to be..censorship of any kind is outrageously self loathing
@William Tallon: It’s simple really. If it’s funny then they’ll get a laugh and if it crosses the line then it won’t. What’s funny to one generation won’t be funny to another and comedy is a fluid thing.
Audiences are juries and comedians self-censoring, they keep the jokes that work.
Snowflakes who want to censor what they don’t like/understand however can just FRO.
@Michael: I’ve never heard censorship described as outrageously self-loathing before. It’s a bit of a stretch to equate a complex psychological condition to feeling offended about something and demanding you or others shouldn’t be exposed to it. I don’t think there’s any connection whatsoever. I would suggest it’s more to do with the fear generated by a desire to control events and people that threaten your narrative of security and of how the world should be…
@colmgarvey: If only it were that simple. I agree that what’s funny to one generation won’t be funny to another because comedy is rooted in time and place and dates very quickly. Also, comedy differs between cultures. Yes, other cultures do comedy. It’s not just a western thing. I don’t agree with your point about self-censoring audiences. Some cultures are very censorious and others may not be in the least self-censoring. Jimmy Carr’s brand of comedy might prove meaningless to a lot of people from those countries. When it comes to certain audiences in this part of the world though they seem to have no filters whatsoever. I’m thinking here of those who enjoy racist and sexist jokes, misanthropes and the like. Roy Chubby Brown would never have prospered with a self-censoring audience…
@Da Dell: Not sure why you’ve addressed your comment to me or what the relevance is but if that’s what you think society should do then good luck with that. It seems a tad excessive though. Include me out…
Dorries complained of cancel culture ruining comedy. You know, the thing where people just complain about stuff and media companies comply if they care. Voluntarily. So she wants to make stuff against the law instead.
Whether it should be against the law or not doesn’t even really matter. She’s a hypocrite of the highest order: “that’s not comedy” = “I didn’t laugh”.
She didn’t renounce her earlier comment. Just clarified that this is “different”, because SHE doesn’t consider it comedy.
You’d have to wonder when and where this is all going to end. For starters this Is nothing new for Jimmy Carr. If you know anything about him this won’t surprise you. He’s always been a dark comedian who’s shows etc always generally offend someone. No surprise there. I would think both travellers and holocaust victims have had and have heard much worse said about them. My point is, where does all this stop? Society has become an almost unassailable mine field. It’s near impossible now to have an opinion without causing offence to someone or some group or ethnicity, sexuality or religion and that offence is now leading to social media witch hunts, trial by Facebook, if you’re in the public eye it can mean you become a social pariah or cancelled altogether.
That’s not a joke, Jimmy Carr is a joke who is going to frame himself as the victim in this. Comedy shouldn’t punch marginalized groups down. That’s bullying and making money from exploiting societies prejudices. A
I know absolutely nothing about how Netflix shows are produced or the process from start to finish but I’m presuming there are many, many people involved from the first day or filming to its release. Surely somebody along that journey flagged this joke and suggested it might not be received so well? It’s like they saw what happened after the Dave Chapelle controversy and thought it was worth the publicity?
Dark or absurd humour isn’t for everyone. It doesn’t mean though that it should be banned. Upholding freedom of expression should belong to the primary duties of any democratic government.
What about freedom speech? The right to speak freely is where every free groups freedom comes from. The right to speak freely, to honestly express yourself is more important than the right to not be offended.
Like jimmy and ricky always say JOKES ARE NOT THE BAD THINGS THEY ARE SIMPLY JUST JOKES , if i make a joke about r*pe it doesnt mean im some sex craved maniac
Colm de Cleir : that c word you casually threw into your comment is vile and designed to be a measure of contempt for women .Generally speaking white straight males are the group least likely to suffer vile abuse .As for Alan Carr his material is desperately unfunny at any time , joking about the holocost is just desperation writ large
@Joan Grennan: not to correct you or anything but it’s Jimmy Carr not Alan Carr . Two very different breeds of comedian. I can’t see Alan Carr making jokes of this nature.
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The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
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