Wouldn’t worry a whole lot about them there day’s are numbered no matter how much they blow there trumpet this week people see through them

Wow so there are people out there that red thumbed me en masse for that? Cool beans.

Drug addiction is like an illness. We have cracked up this week about people lying on trolley beds but there are hundreds of people around the country sleeping rough, most of which have “an illness.”

Is that acceptable considering cancer patients and sick people at least get access to the health service in some shape or form and stand a chance of being treated properly; with the outcome being positive in a lot of cases?

Yet we feed people metadone and send them on their way with drug addiction. Come off it. The best case scenario for the state by the looks of things is that these people die.

Drug abuse is endemic in every facet of Irish society, you may not see it but its there never the less and you will be aware of its effects. It was a shock for me some months ago when I was taking a short cut down a side street with my son, thankfully a bigger lad than me, we passed a group of young lads, some sitting on the ground and others smoking. I didn’t give them a second look and just nodded saying something like “lads”, my son grabbed my arm and pulled me along This caused me to look at the group again and it was only then that I noticed the needle in the arm of one and stupidly I turned back to see if he was alright, I thought he may have been diabetic or something. Yeah I know, stupid. Some of the others immediately moved and began asking if we “had any odds or a couple of smokes”. My son told them where to go in no uncertain terms and practically dragged me away, when we were a few yards away he asked me if I didn’t smell the “exoctic tobacco”. Now I know this might sound a bit odd to many but I’ve no idea what it smells like, still don’t, and I’m happy that way.
This was just yards away from the main street of a major town in broad daylight in Ireland, and I’ve no reason to believe my experience was anything unusual. Every time I recount this story to others everyone has a similar one to tell, seeing people shooting up in broad daylight on O’Connell Street, having a family member who the love dearly but have to turn away. Its heart breaking.

“Low and dirty remark…exactly what you’d expect from Labour TDs these days…”
They are fighting a rearguard action against wipe out-with many of their votes going to Sinn Fein come next election.
Expect more scurrelous activity from Joan the Moan & Co in the coming months.

And not only that Rusty but I often see people fighting because of drugs, money, and/ or robbing people for both on O’Connell Street.

The thing is these people are ill, they see nothing other than the drug and how to get it. They would go through you for a 6 pence in order to feed that habit. Hence why they are ill. They don’t see logic or reason but with genuine help, support and decent funding we can get these people back in some shape or form to what you or I am.

Why did the SF deputy bring up the reference in the first place – could he not have spoken in general terms.. i think because he was looking for the sympathy vote… the issue of homelessness is indeed complex and the barb by the Labour TD was crass… but the SF made it a political issue when he mentioned his brother… what difference does it make and did that needed to be put in the public domain? – For what purpose did he say it. Answers on a postcard to politics 101, C/O trying to get re-elected.

If someone brings up the issue of potholes in Cork or Donegal are they looking for personal sympathy?

@Spiderman Jaysus I didn’t realise it was that bad, but what do we do? Do we write them off or try to help them, clearly some can be helped? I know of a couple of ex addicts who have recovered, I know you can’t make someone recover, they have to want to, but surely if there is some sort of method or means out there then we owe it to our citizens to try. If it was my son or daughter I know I’d want to try anything. If we balance what this drug plague is costing the nation in terms of crime, methadone, healthcare, etc. against investing in treatment it could be beneficial for all. Doing noting sure as Hell isn’t working.

Well a lot of people think the best way is to create a load of clean houses where they can shoot up in a safe and controlled environment like what happens in some countries. Some think rehab the way to go but I think it is a mixture of both. Both have positives and negatives but the “key” is a change in mindset from “skum” to “people that are ill” and then treat it as something akin to a disease or a mental illness.

One of the great failures of this government is youth and young adult unemployment. Many people turn to drugs, drink or general hopelessness that would have otherwise been paying taxes to fund these services. The health system is a joke. Every year it is being cut and it is funding less and less each time. If more young people could get into the bracket that pays proper tax in this country we would have more money to pay for these services.

Instead many are living on the live register or emigrating. Those that emigrate are really just paying tax that we need here in Ireland to another country. They had 4 years now….is this the best that FG/LAB can do?

Typical response.

Previous to the US invading Afghanistan heroin wasn’t anything near the epidemic it is now. After that the opium industry exponentially increased . Theres drugs in every small town in Ireland now and the law are doing nothing other than hanging around estates arresting peaceful protestors. Such an upside down world we live in.

Only Sinn Féin are allowed use their family for political point-scoring.

Seargeant, I’m guessing he might have been enraged by JobBridge Joan’s flippant remarks which may have caused him to become intemperate. Just a guess on my part.

Not exactly correct. For the Taliban years supply dropped but before that and since it has flowed from Afghan. Mexico is the becoming the major supplier, with a huge upsurge.

No Prov. Shinnerbot, other parties use Sinn Fein’s family’s for political point scoring!

I’m sorry spiderman but drug addiction is not an illness like cancer.no one ever had a choice with cancer !!!! You have a choice to out the first needle in your arm or not.and don’t give me any thing about disadvantages. I’m from a “disadvantaged area ” and not everyone does drugs

It just raises the questions of what we do with people that are on drugs and homeless?

Something isn’t working and there appears to be no appetite to find solutions to the problem of substance abuse in the capital. We need to get these people off the streets, reformed and back working and living like the rest of us. We have had this problem in Ireland and in Dublin in particular for decades and nothing has been done about it.

Labour’s comments are cruel and unhelpful.

Spiderman_Irish, more can certainly be done in this area but we need to be careful not to propagate the belief that all that is needed to reform drug addicts is some form of Government master plan. Nobody makes you put a needle in your arm. There are a whole range of reasons why people do and I am not judging them for it. Any one of use can end up in a place we never intended when we embarked on a course of action. But people cannot be compelled to cease their addiction no matter how many interventions. The fact that this SF TD feels insulted and offended and feels the need to blow off about it is simply more personality politics.

What will assist in this area is focussed, logical and national interventions. But it costs a great deal of money which has to come from somewhere. Do we take it from the health budget, the social protection budget or the education budget because that’s where all the money is spent in this country. For better or worse if people are given a choice between spending scarce public funds on an effective national drug treatment programme or more special needs teachers they will vote for the latter all the time. If people are given a choice between spending scarce public funds on building better prisons and prison programmes that might offer genuine rehabilitation opportunities as opposed to an investment in hospitals they will choose the latter all the time. It is far too easy to blame politicians for our own prejudices. Politicians know what it takes to get reelected and as all public expenditure involves choice and competition for the available funds they will put money into what people actually vote for rather than what people talk about. Very sad but very true and that is why we do not have better services for drug addicts.

I agree John but many do. There are many people living with drug addiction in its many guises across all walks of life. However the LAbour TD clearly made a personal remark about a family member. So this must apply to Labour as much as SF.

I absolutely agree with you on the lack of appetite on behalf of the wider electorate but something has to be done. I am not saying legalize it or create clean houses like they have in Bern. What I am saying is that they need to rehabilitate the people and spend money that way. People of course will fail no doubt and people will wonder why we would spend money on something that will have a high failure rate. But right now doing nothing is akin to saying “Let’s stop all treatment of aggressive illnesses” because it is cheaper to let nature take it’s course.

I bang on about this regular but we have the money for a lot of things that need funding. End universal payments to people on high salaries i.e get rid/ reduce the Children’s Allowance and State Pensions to people that “do not need them.” Redirect that money somewhere. Drug rehabilitation is one area that needs a lot of reform and Ireland could be a world leader if we start off small and see the effect one well funded scheme, see if it can deliver and then roll out nationwide as money starts to come back into the economy in the next 3-10 years.

Well one thing which might help would be a massive overhaul of drugs policy, for instance decriminalising possession of small quantities, prison is not a cure for addiction and can worsen certain situations, and by not wasting time and resources finding, arresting and processing users these resources can instead be applied to finding suppliers. Could also legalise cannabis as it is as harmful as coffee and use the tax intake to fund treatment services for those dependent on addictive substances, including alcohol and pharmaceutical products.

“Hang on, he’s spent 20 years on a drug task force?
The incompetence runs deeper than I thought.”
I wonder how much money he accrued in expenses etc. during those 20 years.
If he had been on the “prison visiting commitee” as well, he could have doubled his earnings..!!

I don’t know about legalizing Cannibis as it might send the wrong message. People will talk about the places where it is legal but the best thing to do with most substances is to avoid them. Full stop. There are side effects to its usage including mental illness but the legal stigma must be relaxed for addicts and more them towards reform. Other than that I 100 percent agree with the waste of money on fighting users as opposed to cracking down on dealers. Good point.

I think cannabis should be legalised as it’s no way the same as meth or cocaine, having it illegal puts it in the hands of unscrupulous unregulated dealers. I can guarantee you that if alcohol was made illegal tomorrow that the same unscrupulous unregulated dealers would be selling drink and that drink would be tainted with paintstrippers or whatever. Drink has major issues and a detrimental effect on our country which would only be exasperated by making it illegal.

Indeed Layne. Then he was so far up on his high horse, he couldn’t be reached.
A distasteful interchange between the unacceptable and the unbelievable.

Spiderman_Irish, I find myself in agreement with you. I am not a fan of universal benefits which do not take account of income. The State has scare resources in the social sphere and should largely apply them for one of two primary purposes (a) to help overcome or mitigate income disadvantage (2) for broader societal benefits (e.g. education and health areas). However, I would not be confident that the funds released would be applied in the manner you propose because there would be competing demands for those additional resources. This is why I believe that raising public awareness and consciousness is critical if reform is to succeed. Other than that I honestly believe we could do a great deal better here instead of treating drug addicts as low life scangers who deserve what they have coming to them.

Well why didn’t he take his brother in? He said he’s off drugs. oh but of course sinn fein expect the government to do everything for everyone with no money to fund any of it.

Having spent 20 years on the drug task force, you would think he might have learned a thing or two about the issue.

Eric Byrne and Derek Keating are absolute pigs.

Joan Burton , An Tanaiste , on RTE1 Radio , presently , making a complete ass of herself !
She is completely losing it – on air !

This Government and its Taoiseach and Ministers , is in complete disarray .

To tell an elected member of a Parliament to “Shut their mouth” is completely out of order, while the Labour TD should have used some decorum and worded his comment maybe a little better, there is no excuse for vulgarity. It demeans the value of our democratic institutions…then again its not unknown for a member of SF to try snd cause a stir in the Dail…

Yes you would think he would be in Sinn Fein not attacking them

Cuppantae I would suggest it is Labour in this instance demeaning the value of our democratic institutions…..

Cuppantae – The ould Gerryphobia virus is still there in your bloodstream a Chara ???
Hard to weigh things up in a balanced way , when you are running a Blueshirt temperature , isn’t it ?

It is far far worse to say what Byrne said. He deserved a punch not just a telling off. You’re obviously just a troll

Cuppantae if I slagged a member of your family with a problem they have…..someone say like your “Mother” or your “Brother or a situation that they were in, and how you were doing “nothing” about it; what would you do?

Would you look at me or would you cross the room and have words with me?

Comrade Ciarraíoch, I hope their Gerryphobia gives way to Gerryfever! #tiocfaidhárlá2016

He should have said shut your mouth you ignorant Labour Langar.

“Honk-honk”

Serious question… Why do people expect the state to solve every problem? I’m sure the family have tried to help this poor man , but if his family haven’t been able to get him off drugs then what makes you think strangers will do any better?

Because those strangers would have specialist training in dealing with and assisting addicts and direct access to other professionals who could assist the addict in other aspects of their treatment/recovery?

If memory serves me, and I may be wrong, but I think that was Brendan Lynch. Husband of Kathleen and brother of Ciaran

Because Journal stasi when it comes to personal problems such as addiction sometimes outside help is more effective. There is embarassment of needing help, and in some cases its those closest who may be in some way seen as the root of the problem by an addicted mind. It can be easier to open up to strangers and the effectiveness of group therapy for addiction has been proven to be very beneficial and supportive. When youre an addict chances are you dont have the money for private treatment centers so there is nowhere else to turn but to the state. And its in our interests to help addicts who want help as the less addicts we have the less crime associated with addiction we have

Prob.Shinnerbot – FG / Enda’s Troll – A Wolf in Sheeps clothing .
A Faker , all the way – just like Enda !

“20 years on the drug task force” surely this should show people how ineffective the likes of E Byrne is. The use of illegal drugs have exploded in the last 20 years, what the hell has this “drug task force” been up to? Drawing down plenty of expenses?

Comrade Ciarraíoch, as unquestioning Adams supporters, does that make us Gerryatrics?

Prob.Shinnerbot – It just proves that you FG Trolls suffer from Gerryphobia Virus !!!!!!!

Its hard to figure out who is the parody and who is the true supporter… an ciarrioch or Shinnerbot. The quest continues.

Sergeant Yates – FG / Enda’s Troll – A Wolf in Sheeps clothing .
A Faker , all the way – just like Enda !

You’re right – Exactly. And if he’s like that in parliament, what’s he like at home?

Dirty little pampas tramps ….

Gerard I would think It depends on the direction the middle part swings.

It’s more right of centre, but can retract in extreme cold to centre;)

@JS, maybe you should check out Byrnes previous form. Ref. cork machine gun murder

@Denis Reedy I don’t think Byrne had anything to do with the Cork murder as far as I know it was Kathleen Lynches husband Brendan

@Yvonne, apologies on the Cork ref., you are correct and it is Berenard. As for previous form “The next time you see senior members of the Labour Party, and now ministers of the Government of Ireland, spouting on about the necessity for politics only, and their rejection of violence and ‘paramilitarism’, just remember where they came from, what paths they followed, and what utter hypocrisy they cloak their political histories in.”

She got professional lessions in how to do that.
Used to be the most moany and useless speaker in her party.
Now she shouts down the other speakers until everybody else has given up..

The shinner brought personal experience and knowledge to the debate. The FG lackey of lab brought ignprance and contempt to the debate, and that is after 20 years on the drug task force..

I should have been clearer in what i meant, i know the shinner mentikned it first so he was trying to show he has personal experience of the topic and the labour idiot crossed the line by questioning his families decisions and how they as a family dealt with it.

It is a legitimate question. As you know the man and his family you are in a position to answer it. What have his family done? Do they have the means to help him? Why is the State the first resort? You choose to interpret what I asked as criticism. It is not. We have to be prepared to ask the hard questions and remember I did not put in the public domain that this TD has a homeless brother. He did and since he decided to politicize his brothers situation he has to deal with the questions that come up.

@thomas they have tried everything to help you name it they did it and im not just saying that they have tried everything and the government wasn’t their first stop they did everything themselves and they are still trying he only used his brother as an example of a person who is trying very hard to get clean but when you put an addict in with a recovering addict there is only 1 outcome! He didn’t bring it up for sc#m like the labour dick to berate him and his family and nake it out like they are doing nothing to help just like you implied ignorance is a dangerous tool!

There, you did it again. ‘Why is the state the first resort’? Again, you are stating something you nor anyone in FG/LAB have a clue about. How many times has this person been in treatment? Do you not think treatment was the first resort? What other measures did the family take? Your assertion that ‘the state is the first resort’ like the family tried nothing else is completely ignorant just like the statements made by FG/LAB. You do not know that to be true, but your obvious bias and complete lack of empathy leads to you make statements which you have absolutely no clue if they are true or not, but you are going to go ahead and say them as you are not worried about the individual in question nor the family, you seek to demonise this family and portray them as people who are completely unable to deal with their own personal issues even though there is no evidence of that, other than your speculation which you put forward as absolute fact. It shows ignorance and contempt all in one, in this case for an entire family you do not even know.

It’s no different than someone saying why are all the people who are signed on lazy? Why do drug addict just not ‘say no’ to drugs? Why is it all immigrants come here to steal our jobs? You make an assertion about a group of people who you have no idea about nor know what they have done or their personal situation in efforts to fit them in to your own predetermined, degrading stereotype.

The fact you do not see this and have done it twice now shows your own ignorance.

It remains a legitimate question Sternm. You are guilty of exactly the same thing you accuse me of. You know nothing about me or of my family circumstances or of the health situation of anyone related to me. When a TD decides to bring a family member into a political discussion whether to score political points or not that family member becomes part of the game. I have put forward nothing as an absolute fact. I have asked a legitimatec question. And my family had to deal with an alcoholic uncle with a serious mental health issue for 30 years of my adult life with zero State support. We are still dealing with it as it has impacted on his kids in a profound way. So don’t effing lecture me about not having a clue. At the same time ask yourself why the State has a responsibility to solve every problem. It does not. In fact the more the State was involved with my Uncle the worse his condition became. Every time he was sectioned by the State he got worse. Every time my mother took him in and cared for him he got better. Every time he was let loose on the street he got worse. Every time my other Uncle brought him home he got better. So spare me your censure and your leftist sanctimony.

Sternn if you have finished your rant and stopped beating our chest and publicising your nobility of spirit can I just say that Thomas asked a question which is legitimate. The SF TD put the matter into the public domain. Having done so he could have taken the opportunity to explain just how difficult it is for even the best intentioned families to stage a successful intervention without appropriate State support structures.

Addiction is a societal problem and not just a matter for Government. Unfortunately and despite all the well intentioned views about addicts on this post it is quite evident that society in the main does not give a fig about addicts if it involves diverting resources from other social benefits such as hospitals and schools etc to addiction treatment. If society did care we would not find ourselves in this position because in our clientelist State these services would already have been provided. Do not expect this to change any time soon despite SF chest beating. We have been here before many times with different parties. When SF eventually get into Government they will find that there are numerous competing options for limited State funds and that the citizenry have strong views about where these funds should be invested. Drug treatment comes close to the bottom of the list in reality. This is a tragedy but it is also true. In order to change this we will need to change public perceptions. This will involve a mature debate and the telling of real life stories. Behind most addictions there is an extended family who are also hurting and living with the constant worry of their loved one dying. I hope we can have that debate instead of taking the opportunity as is being done here to bleat about our moral superiority because a Labour TD has said something offensive.

@John R …… had to read through a lot of crap to finally see a measured, well articulated response. Good to see someone not thinking along party lines and leaving the emotion out of it. Well said.

Thomas
Because rather than the SFer talking about the state being the first resort he is talking about how the state is compounding the issue, how the state which is supposed to support rather than hinder it’s own citizens is not doing so, but whose inefficiency is making matters worse. Rather than the inclusion of a family issue in the SF case, it shows the councillor knows what he is talking about when attacking the policy of the government. The emotional response was on the part of the government declining to debate how things may be better handled, instead he decided to swipe back with an emotional response.

Families are not always in a position to help. Even if they are they might not be willing to continuously leaned on by a person not willing to help themselves.

Dennis are you telling me a TD cant help. Im sure this SF TD is not struggling like normal families which cant help.

As someone who has had the misfortune to have a family member with addiction problems I can tell you it’s not as simple as letting them live in your house, various reasons such as having kids around, space issues, stealing, mood swings. If your not qualified in that field and have an emotional attachment to the person its probably not best to get involved unless it’s in a minor capacity. I suspect the minister is of the spare the rod and spoil the child generation, and with twenty odd years on a quango dealing with these issues and a response like that it’s no wonder we haven’t moved on as a country when it comes to these issues.

Cupid a very good and reasoned post which has actually contributed to the debate. Well done. More please.

@john Healy who’s to say the family haven’t given him money or tried everything in their power to help? (If they actually have never attempted to help him then disregard this) it must be very difficult to have to cut someone off but sometimes it is all you can do otherwise you can become an enabler and that’s not good or helpful. I think without the facts and full history of that man’s family there is no right to point fingers of blame,it’s very insensitive. He can bring it up in a relatable way of course but there is no need for a snipe comment that points a finger not at him but his entire family. Its not right buts it typical playground stuff from this government

That’s what austerity does to services John Healy same thing happening here.

Kerry, in an ideal world we could afford all the services necessary to do everything. Alas we don’t live in that world. People are so quick to cite Portugal regarding drugs or Iceland regarding banks or Argentina regarding debt repudiation but only focus on the upside and ignore the downside realities. They then seek to apply only the upside to Ireland ignoring the flip side of the coin. Anyone who believes that by deregulating hard drugs addiction rates are going to decline is deluded. Any benefits from taxing drugs would be swamped by the rise in health costs and other social issues. There are upsides of course but there are also many downsides. We Irish are not noted for our restraint when it comes to addictive substances.

It’s a fallacy that legalisation leads to higher rates of drug use, statistically the opposite has been shown to be true time and time again. Our current drug policy based on the U.S model which has lead to the highest level of incarcerations on the planet there only exacerbates the situation, so while we may disagree on how it could alternatively be handled, the current policy not only does not work but creates an even more volatile situation and needs to be reformed urgently.