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IBRC IS NEVER out of the headlines at present with the ongoing Siteserv controversy just one of many stories that has the watching public enthralled.
But, as it happens, even the act of liquidating the bank is costing the Irish state a lot of money.
Responding to a parliamentary question from Renua leader Lucinda Creighton, Minister for Finance Michael Noonan has outlined the rates of pay KPMG are charging to wind up the bank.
The fees being charged, excluding VAT, by the accountancy firm are:
“These rates are based on NAMA negotiated rates for the relevant services. These rates were put in place following a competitive tender conducted by NAMA,” Noonan said in response to Creighton’s question.
The total cost of the liquidation in terms of fees stood at €112 million in June 2014, the last time a progress update was released by KPMG to minister Noonan.
This figure was net of a €7 million rebate agreed by the accountancy firm with the Ministry of Finance at that time.
IBRC has been in special liquidation since February 2013, when the Dáil famously sat throughout the night before passing a bill to wind the bank up immediately.
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These are the people who would argue that an increase in the minimum wage would lead to economic disaster for the whole country.
Was that not IBEC and the Small Firms Association, no?
We are a very passive people , no other country in the world would allow their most vulnerable to lie on hospital trollies for days while this kind of money is spent on a corrupt dead bank whos debts we are already saddled with.
We are capitalists deeply in debt living in a world controlled by corporations, just like any other country if we don’t pay to cover up mistakes and not rock the boat we become like Greece or Cuba.
When the straw breaks the camels back, you shoot it dead and get another one.
Ireland will continue to exist as a market after unsustainable debt is eliminated from the economy.
Iceland is doing OK. Greece will do the same. We will be on our knees and incapable of fiscal independence for the next 40 years.
Explain how that is smart?
that book by john grisham The Firm comes to mind when i see the name KPMG !
Liquidations/Receiverships are big business for acountancy firms, they are guaranteed their fees.
If you wish to send KPMG a message here is their contact link …
mailto:info@kpmg.ie
There’s a guy called Shaun Murphy with his picture on that page ….who is he and what parents spell the name Sean – “Shaun” ?
somebody should put in a FOU request to get the total yearly spend to the big 4 accountants. these fuxkers are milking the taxpayer for several billion a year.. why don’t we have a state accountancy/legal department which has all this capabilites?
Might also look at the number of people they employ and help gain valuable qualifications.
Aside from the obvious conflict of interest problem of the government (or any business) doing its own books.
Who would work in an Irish government in house legal and accountancy department for 100k when they could make a million in a private firm?
Shhhh Drew. Thinking things through is not a generally well received attribute on these forums.
Vacuous rhetoric and thoughtless amateur dramatics (mar shampla North Korea’s comment below) are more than welcome though.
drew, the accountant doesn’t make that money, KPMG do. the individual will only received a small portion of that. you do raise a valid point, why would officials stay in their job when so much money is going to outside individuals. unfortunately, to get the true picture, you would have to see their private bank details to see how their bank accounts relate to their salary (and if their are any consultancy payments outside of their govt work), and like DoB, that is fiercely protected.
MK47, you sound like that ‘my daddy is a kpmg partner’ spoilt brat who was calling the Irish plebs.
MK47, you sound like that ‘my daddy is a kpmg partner’ spoilt child who was calling the Irish plebs.
My comment was that good, I had to say it twice.
@Alien8 Are you proposing everyone’s bank account details should be made public information or have I misinterpreted what you said?
@Phil Please re read my post on vacuous rhetoric and thoughtless amateur dramatics.
MK, Have you seen the clip of me one mouthing off, revelling in sheer delight at the plight of the plebs and how her daddy was a partner to the destruction of Irish society.
How’s that for dramatics.
Yup, but not sure how that pertains to the topic at hand or the debate on same.
It offers an insight into the thought process at kpmg, also the brat in the video claims to be a partner at the said firm, it is an article about kpmg you know.
@Phil She wasn’t a partner. From memory she was saying her father was. Not sure how what one young drunk girl says can be taken as a reflection of the entire company.
It’s like a small number of violent “water charge protesters” shouldn’t be taken as a reflection of the overall movement, right?
Now who’s off topic, but, I will judge the violence of the water protesters by the seriousness of any charges faced and subsequent convictions. Your right about me one on the video, she was drunk so maybe deserves a pass, the video just leaves a sour taste because of the difficulties and hardships faced by these ‘plebs’ she refers to.
Unsurprisingly you missed my point. I was saying that because a few morons got violent, doesn’t make the protest movement a violent one.
There’s seems to be a handful of big players in this State that have a monopoly over gigs like this and just clean up as they go along…….
I’m definitely in the wrong job
Sorry people who have never used professional services but those rates are cheap…
Yes, it is for a special!
in IT professional services, the highest is around 1k a day…. these guys are charging multiples of this
Mates rates.
Time for a revolution then!
@rehabmeerkat – actually, most of the IT services I retain over the last few years vary from 1,200 to 2,000 per day depending on the skills you are buying. And that’s including the discount we get for bulk purchase agreements. 1k per day seems kinda cheap to me
Parasites!!!!!!
Do explain.
mk, they get contracts with government officials and senior civil servants from public tenders and from this position they become very chummy and aware of the larger contracts. they then convince those people to spend a lot of the public money on consultancy projects to enable their departments to look better than they actually are. when the big projects, like Anglo’s liquidation come up, they have their feet under the table and their hand on the books, all that the government can do is try and negotiate the rates, but it is essentially a blank cheque (i.e. nearly everyone is a partner). that is parasitic behaviour. even if a new government comes in, unless there is a root out of senior civil servants, then all advice will lead to enriching KPMG or Deloitte in some way.
@Alien I don’t disagree that the large professional firms have built relationships that help their business, but to call them parasites is ridiculous. They provide a required professional service and do it better than most others.
Their fees are over priced and that should be looked at, but other than that what are you proposing should be and by whom?
Overlooking KPMG being forced to investigate themselves over their conduct with IBRC and Siteserv.
Professional my hole. Parasites is more accurate, they leach off everything but provide nothing. Their bottom line is profit. So will take actions to maximise such profit. Yet their business requires large state and private contracts, thus they will propagate an environment which requires their services. This is also a company with a history of criminal action and enabling tax avoidance for wealthy clients, ponzi schemes and account “improprieties”.
We don’t give prisoners the right to vote, but we give companies with criminal and incompetent histories large state contracts. When they do wrong on our soil, we have them investigate themselves. It’s sheer madness.
Nice Gravy Train for KPMG. The costs seem high but that could be normal costs for such work. I presume this work was tendered so it is the best possible price .
Sure all you have to do is look at various other lucrative state contracts that are connected to, but not limited to IBRC, to know we are being robbed and getting nowhere near best prices, why would they give us value for money when we’re paying and refuse to wake up from our eternal slumber ;)
They have sold their souls to the Devil.
They are one big family these corporates and will take the biggest slice before sharing, people on the bread line they don’t even know what that means.
Von, nothing to stop you getting your a accountancy qualifications. Maybe you’re just too busy whinging
holy fukc…. Junior Accountant 167k a year … (95an hour x 8hours x 220 workdays). absolutely shocking they would àgree to this…. and that’s the cheapest on the list
The fee charged is not equivalent to the salary earned. A junior accountant in a Big Four firm is on about 24K per annum
So why not just hire them directly for that price rather than going through KPMG and paying such a huge handling fee.
Because it costs a lot more to hire someone than to retain them for a specific purpose.
going rate maybe but for something that’s going to go on for years better value for money might have been sought!!!
The hourly rates are in line with say UK rates for the job . The problem is the “time & line” method of charging . No 2x liquidations will be the same but the public need to know what’s actually involved. It’s incredibly routine and boring mostly and is just a bean counting exercise following by good housekeeping . Rarely will liquidators or administrators get hands on experience of running the company. Rather, it’s a matter of cherry picking the attractive bits, ditching most if not all the debts leaving little or nothing for a dividend to creditors. Work out a block fee and put these unfortunate scenarios out to tender thereby getting value for money, drastically reducing fees and freeing up more money for creditors as a whole. Root and branch reform needed
Those rates look like ~25% to 50% of the normal professional fees.
You’ll probably find too that our government has signed cast iron contracts, with no get out clause with the likes of KPMG and Arthur Cox, valid til the second coming of Christ.
French Revolution needed – sorry, I meant Irish Revolution needed!
These rates were put in place following a competitive tender….. Ha ha ha.ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.. That’s a hoot!!!
The reality is that this procedure did go to tender and was won by KPMG, how balanced that procedure was is anyone’s guess when you look at how good this government is at providing jobs and reward for whitewashed reports and false statics. We will never know why Anglo had to be wound up overnight yet again everyone in the dept of finance was way to busy to keep meeting minutes or leave any paper trail. 7000 euros was spent on that famous nigh in the Dáil bar so really did anyone even care what was happening. We employ a bigger army of lawyers and accountants to coverup corruption, inside dealing, incompetence. This is what we should be complaining about.
With rates like this being paid is it not in their interest to see companies become liquidated. There will always be another cow to milk while they are in the government’s pocket.
They are the going rates however KPMG wouldn’t know a good days work if it was on the end of Michael Noonan’s boot and hit them in the balls. I’ve seen what they call work in previous companies I worked in. They are a total rip off gravy train. All qualified and charging rated commensurate with their education and so on but the hours they actually do anything are few and far between.
It’s a wonder they didn’t get someone on an “internship” to do the wind down. That actually works out at a little over €6 an hour . Less than minimum wage. It’s an absolute scandal what this government is getting way with. The sooner the better they, KPMG and all of the elite cronies are gone. If I had my way, I’d banish them from our country forever.
E&Y were sued by the IBRC yet the CB appointed them to oversee Newbridge CU. Odd that
I would nearly say that government fees to consultants and gov administration things like the high cost of the water grant are artificially inflated, maybe because they can secretly siphon off a certain percentage of the cost to paying off the state debt. Then they can make the debt repayments figures better by saying they negotiated better deals with the EU, IMF, they paid back less debt last year, and we owe a lot less than actually thought, which makes them look good. They’re constantly spinning the economic data like unemployment figures and amount of jobs created, so i’d say there’s a fair bit of cooking the financial books going on as well.
This is all part of the build up to the next election where in the run up to the election, because of them cooking their own books, the economic news will be surprisingly better than expected, they’ll have negotiated great deals with the EU on our debt. In fact they’ll consider their own performance sooo good that they’ll give themselves a 5 or 10 percent pay rise in line with inflation, amounting to another 20k on their already overpaid jobs. Just before the election is an ideal time for the politicians pay rise, becauae after the election, we’re gonna hear that the new gov still has a lot of work to do, we need more tax increases, and we got a mandate in the election just past, to do it!
Disclaimer 1: I don’t work for KPMG, any govt department or Arthur but I do know that those charge out rates are very reasonable for any prof services firm- law or accountancy. Big 4/5, or top 20 to be honest.
Disclaimer 2: I don’t work in liquidations so can’t accurately comment on it but from what I do know fees for almost all jobs, project or compliance are generally agreed in advance. These charge out rates are purely illustrative & likely in case the scope of the job explodes & significant extra hours go on the clock. Finally those guys who work in any of the top tier law or accountancy practices clock in astronomical hours so whoever argued that they wouldn’t know a days work if it hit them should do a switch with one of them for a week & see if their opinion holds steady or not.
This is what you’re paying for:
http://www.metatube.com/en/videos/166331/Original-Video-Drunk-Rich-Irish-Girl-Ranting-MY-DADDY-WORKS-FOR-KPMG/
All friends of friends of course political corruption at its best
http://gncglobal.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/anonymous-judge-blows-whistle-us-is.html
” When you see or hear of a Bank closing – it is a diversion and is intended to injure and panic the public! “
……….
I worked in KPMG and those hourly figures are definitely understated
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