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THE EDUCATION MINISTER has announced a major overhaul of how the Leaving Cert is graded.
Gone are As, Bs and Cs, in are 1, 2, 3 and will see the CAO points system overhauled.
The 14 existing grades will be replaced by eight different scores, ranging from H1-H8 in higher level to O1-O8 in ordinary level.
The plan will be rolled out for students who enter fifth year in September.
This is how many points will be awarded:
A new common points system is currently being developed by the universities and institutes of technology and, following review by academic councils, will be published in September.
The report published today by the Department of Education also found that despite the perception of many, is not, in fact very predictable and that those who rely on their predictability too often do not perform as well as those who prepare more.
Speaking today, Jan O’Sullivan said the reforms would encourage students to be more ambitious.
“The grading system of the Leaving Certificate has been left unchanged for more than two decades. The current system of 14 grades increases pressure on students. The majority of grades are separated by just 5%, resulting in students striving to gain minimal percentage increases to achieve higher grades.”
Here’s a mad idea…why not leave the obscure aspects of the lc alone, and concentrate on the ACTUAL problems, like production of young minds focused more on understanding than learning off by heart?
Another mad idea… How about leaving these announcements for after the final exam in the leaving cert? We had an announcement on Monday about people getting points for 30-40% and now this announcement today.
Stop messing with kids’ heads during the most stressful time of their young lives so far!
Just adds to the hype I suppose. So much is made about the lc that you are almost felt to treat it like a supernatural event. After its done, you actually begin to question what all the fuss us about.
Another great idea. So the student who gets 60 can say they got 70. Whats not to like about that?
Ok. Onwards and upwards. What is tomorrow’s new idea going to be?
That was H1 Sharon
Just doesn’t roll off the tongue…. or the car bonnet….
Brilliant.
So basically a fancy new points system that gives 45 CAO points to students who fail. Rewarding failure….That’s really not going to dumb down the education system.
And it’ll make the Honours classes harder to teach and bore the able.
You could look at it another way. The current system punishes those that take on the higher level papers but fail. Someone could get 35% at higher level but get no points while those that get 40% at ordinary level get something.
And of course you are all missing the point that getting 1/3 of an exam right does not write it off as a failure.
Alien8…. But it is a failure? Exams are there to test your competence in a topic and are used at all levels in life. There has to be a certain cut off point where you are deemed not to have gained a sufficient knowledge. In some exams the passing grade is 70%. Unlike sports, with exams it is not the taking part that counts, it is the end result .
Why is 30% a failure but 40% not? It’s all arbistrary, Student’s getting 30% have demonstrated some knowledge, certainly more than someone who got 40-50% in pass
Ciaran: 30% for that comment. But don’t worry. You’ve passed!
No worries atleast it wasn’t an ordinary level comment
Well, I know we don’t agree on these things. All the same, you do wish that the approach to change was serious and not so half assed. The whole thing is being done with little or no input from teachers themselves and O’Sullivan clearly wasn’t the person for the job (she just got it because the reshuffle meant that labour had to get it and it was given to her, on what grounds were never made clear)? It all seems like a rerun of the Quinn change at any cost routine? It can only end in tears
How is it encouraging students to be more ambitious when it’s reducing the fail rate and therefore telling them that even less work is required to pass?
How many of us dropped to Ordinary Level Maths or to Foundation because we feared failing and getting nothing? If you can get something for an equivalent of an E is that not better than dropping an entire level? I know the difference in levels was astounding for me. I went from doing not great in one level but really trying hard to not being challenged at all in lower levels.
If you get 70% in an exam, then you get 70 points, if you get 71% then you get 71 points etc, etc. A simple solution.
What if you get 71 in ordinary level and 71 in a different higher level subject?
You’d have appeals left right and centre when someone ended up 3 points off their course. The smount of rechecks would become unmanagable
That’s what I always thought is the best idea!
And to answer about the ordinary level, you group (add) together all the ordinary level subjects and calculate them at 70% with rounding up to nearest integer. (By grouping together you minimize the error at decimals)
A B and C’s are used in the developed world countries…what the hell is going on here?
A lot of countries are moving to a 1-8 system. In fact in the UK they’re rolling this out from September in English and Math, and every other subject the year after. I think it’s to do with streamlining a growing number of nations and detaching itself from the old A-C = Honours D=Pass and E-F =Fails
Well we usually follow the UK/EU on e everything so that’s no surprise. Who here still uses miles instead of km ? I do
so basically, you made a point – it was refuted – and now you claim the point is negligible anyway..?
First, they dumbed down the Junior Cert. Now, they’re doing the same to the Leaving Cert. Prepare for the Flight of the Cretins from secondary school graduations!
Exactly. Look at all the free resources available on the internet now, a wealth of free information/tutorials/online study groups and instead of raising standards we are lowering them!
I’m sure it will cost 10 million to implement these changes. That’s the only number that matters
As a teacher I didn’t think I hear this first on the journal
I didn’t think so either… same story appeared on the Irish Times site early this morning!
Passing ordinary gives you 8 points but failing higher gives you 45?
Are those the real point values because they are a bit all over the place aren’t they ? I know the leaving cert needs modernizing but surely a careful and slow remodeling of individual curriculums from the ground up is a much better approach…this I hardly ground breaking they changes the letters not the system.
When I did my leaving cert, the grades were A,B,C,D,E,and F. This was deemed unsatisfactory,as the gaps were too big between grades. Why are we revisiting this system? Giving 45 points for failure is ridiculous
45 points for failure eh? The LC and the points system needed to be revised or completely overhauled, not this nonsense that promotes failure.
45 is not a failure.
It seems crazy. The dumbing down is so obvious. Firstly, rewarding people who do not pass the current acceptable standard and secondly, increasing the amount of points they get at each grade? Come on…
Completely dumbing down the system!!
This coupled with the curved grading that is already in place is just going to lead to grade inflation over time. It may not seem like a huge change but it is a massive blow to exam standards. Why do the DOE insist on looking at what is not working in the UK and think ‘We should TOTALLY do that’ .
Here’s an idea maybe listen to Irish teachers who have been crying out for you to update their syllabus for years, or any subject for that matter.
Points for the cao are going to be crazy, so that’s a maximum of 720 points (or 745 with 25 extra for honours maths) how is this going to benefit students? If anything they will be put under more pressure. Leave the points system alone and focus on the marking schemes and the content of courses.
Students should be rewarded for their knowledge not for “playing the SEC game”.
Will this increase the amount of jobs for the kids who are not able or interested in third level? No? I didn’t think so somehow.
Reinventing the wheel
This wont help too much, still a massive problem with the way subjects are taught and needing to get enough “points” overall to get a job that might only require skills in 3 or less of the subjects that are Done. I know I used this example earlier but all an English teacher should need to be an English is to be good at English. Why should they need a H1-H3 in a science subject?
God forbid we produce well rounded students who are knowledgeable in more than one area of life. I know in the UK it’s 3 or 4 subjects for A level, which means students need to narrow their choices at 16, even further than what we do in Ireland. This leads to a lot of students who are studying subject they are not sure about.
Also, I firmly believe that we need English, Maths and Science (and Irish to a degree) as core subjects, other wise you have students (and later a population) who either have terrible Language skills, a horrible inability to use arithmetic or are scientifically illiterate.
The most detrimental thing about this new system is the merging of the A2/B categories. Has the minister any idea what it takes to obtain 90+ on an examination of a two year course? A1s are like hens’ teeth in all subjects, but at least students capable of 85+ were acknowledged under the current system. This new system has raised the top bar to a level that is unattainable for the majority of students. Look at the difference between points awarded as well! A H2 will never be good enough for those capable of achieving above 85 but not 90. This is only going to increase the pressure students put on themselves & the pressure on teachers to beat the exam. Another moronic, ill conceived reform by a minister who is becoming increasingly dangerous!
There are x number of college places & y number of students, where y > x. If 100% = A1, then the people with the most A1′s & hence most points get their preferred courses & so on down through the grades & courses. The same is true when (A,B,C,D…) is approx = (H1,H2,H3…), If however (A,B,C,D…)>(H1,H2,H3…) then this will result in an additional matriculation exam (again)
Yeah with tipex my E can now become H1, here i come UCD and Trinity, aint seen nothing yet.
Look at it in a positive way. 45 points is no longer a failure 30 or less is. Don’t assume because <40 used to be a failure it is now, it's not its a pass.
Obviously to complicated to understand for the red thumbs. I will draw ye a diagram, OK….
Their wear As, Bs and Cs ??
There were English classes too, I heard!
I don’t understand. 120 points over 6 exams is 720 points. Is that the new high limit.
So people who got 595 years ago will look like they didn’t do as well because the upper limit changed. Imagine getting 595 last year and taking a year out and being 100 points off your medicine course. Madness.
Colleges will just counteract this with a hike in course points !!
Simple Question:
What do Finland or Japan use….
We are ranked 9th in the world(2014, 2up from 2012). They are ranked higher than us.
http://www.edudemic.com/learning-curve-report-education/
Brits are ahead of us…. But we took Switzerland and New Zealand in the last couple of years…
Nothing like a recession to have Johnny baitin the books…
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