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THE PROMOTERS OF a controversial new visitor centre proposed for near the iconic Hell Fire Club in the Dublin Mountains have claimed it will have no adverse impact on protected wildlife and habitats in the area.
South Dublin County Council claims new surveys show increased visitors numbers arising from the development of the €19 million centre, which is proposed to be located on Montpelier Hill, were unlikely to lead to a significant rise in numbers venturing further into the uplands and accessing protected sites through the existing trail network.
The visitor centre is strongly opposed by many local residents, environmental groups and elected representatives from the area, who want to safeguard the natural beauty of the area, while also expressing concern about hazards posed by additional traffic that the new facility would generate.
One of the main objectors, the Save the Hellfire group, has described the visitor centre as a “vanity project”, although it accepts the need for improved parking facilities.
The council has claimed a new Natura Impact Statement had concluded “beyond all reasonable doubt” that the construction and operation of the visitor centre would not adversely affect the integrity of the Wicklow Mountains Special Protection Area.
It acknowledged measures needed to be implemented to prevent the visitor centre having a negative impact on the population of merlin, a bird of prey, because it would result in a decrease in its available hunting habitat.
However, the council said the report showed such measures would reduce all negative impacts on merlin “to imperceptible levels”.
Environmental Impact Assessment Report
The report is contained in the council’s response to a third request by An Bord Pleanála for further information on aspects of the visitor centre.
The latest request was made following an oral hearing on the project held by the board in November 2018.
An Bord Pleanála subsequently stated it was not satisfied that an earlier survey on the impact of the visitor centre on merlin was adequate.
It also said it was not satisfied that the impact of increased visitor numbers would not have an adverse effect on protected habitats in the area of the Hell Fire Club.
However, the council claims an updated Environmental Impact Assessment Report did not change any of the original conclusions and that a three-fold increase in visitor numbers to the Hell Fire Club would not result in significantly more numbers accessing protected heaths.
The council’s report found it was unlikely that the proposed development would lead to an increase risk of major accidents or disasters which could affect the biodiversity of the area.
The project is sponsored jointly by South Dublin County Council, Coillte and the Dublin Mountain Partnership who want to develop a flagship project that will act as a “gateway” to the Dublin Mountains.
The plans include a 75-seater café, shop, toilets, changing facilities, a walkers’ lounge, exhibition space and education centre including a 50-seater auditorium.
Another main feature is a treetop canopy walk over the Kilakee Road connecting the centre with Massy’s Wood – another popular walking area.
The plans also provide for a shuttle bus operating at 15-30 minute intervals from a proposed park and ride facility with 400 car spaces at Tallaght Stadium.
The council said it will use electronic road signs to direct drivers to the Tallaght park and ride facility when the parking area at the Hell Fire Club is full.
It claimed a strategic oversight group would also be established to provide formal, high-level governance of the visitor centre and would meet at least every two months in the first year of its operation.
Parties who have already made submissions to An Bord Pleanála on the project have until 23 March to comment on the latest information provided by the council.
It is a vanity project. Firhouse Community Council put forward a proposal 10 years ago that visitors in local hotels could walk to within a few hundred yards of their proposed Park and Ride at Tallaght Stadium.
Our proposal was to recreate one of the 52 working mills w
With a water wheel on the Dodder opposite the Speaker Connolly. We did all our research from our own pockets at a time when €337 Million in national grants was on the table and our proposal needed nothing more than for South Dublin County Council to make the application.
Our proposal was for a Mill Wheel incorporating a bakery and coffee shop, (a lot of the old mills were for printing and other uses that polluted the river)
Our proposal included a trout hatchery and a fishery with educational facilities for no less than 9 surrounding schools. More importantly it would not alone have been self sustaining, it would have provided profit and given low voltage lighting along the walks from hydroelectric source from the river.
It would have provided passive security and many other assets. And, it would not have cost anything much less the original proposal of spending €52 Million on a derelict building on top of a mountain.
No objection to developing our green spaces, it’s over due.
But claiming that spending 19 million on this center is unlikely to impact existing trails and sites is nonsense, it’s literally why these places are developed. Just do it properly in the first place.
The cost of maintaining and protecting the trails should be shared with the promoters and agreed beforehand.
As for the formal, high-level governance of the visitor centre which will meet at least every two months in the first year, let’s not even go there.
@Cormac Laffan: Correct. They should have bought the Victory Centre and made it part of our proposed Heritage Centre and educational trout hatchery (see other post) and gone ahead with the restoration of a working mill house. Louis Fitzgerald did it at the Old Mill. The idea of the amount of people coming on buses is outrageous when there are empty hotels in Tallaght from where tourists could walk to our proposed facility.
@Tom Fennelly: the Old Mill is a very bad example. It’s just a pub, built in 1997, with old mill equipment around it, not working and definitely not local having been transported from Tipperary. It replaced a bar building from 1871,Burke’s later called Bridget Burke’s, that was definitely in need of rebuilding but the Old Mill while having some of the equipment and being about a 100 feet from the Dodder has nothing to do with Milling. It’s just another pub albeit a big one.
There are huge issues with the Hellfire club plan though. The roads leading up to it from Oldcourt, the Woodstown road is very narrow and winding with no footpaths. It isn’t designed to handle heavy traffic. And the building of a bridge from the site to Masseys Wood which is literally across the road from the hell fire car park is ridiculous. If they want to be taken seriously about protecting our green spaces and habitats they should be endeavouring to reduce the impact as much as possible. A 50 seater auditorium and 75 seater cafe in that limited space area is fundamentally going to change and affect the habitat and the area. There is really no need for such a grand scale development.
Yes install some toilets, a coffee dock, a small information centre and then just let it be.
I am local and I regularly walk there and you can see the Hellfire at the crest of Montpellier Hill from my house. There is no way that such a large visitor centre won’t dominate that space and be in start contrast with the building itself. Add to that the fact that one of main attractions to walkers is the woods and surrounding landscape and they really should think small. Less is more in this case.
@Jensen Bhroin: I was just making the point that the building of the Old Mill cost around €6M Our proposal then would not have cost much more. There are many examples of our proposal to be seen in Kilbeggan and throughout the country. I agree with you about a smaller project would be acceptable but from our research at the time, research during which Councillors were claiming expenses that they subsequently and in my opinion, illegally funneled into a drug treatment centre on the Dodder instead, still leaves me to believe that the Dodder Valley is the jewel in the crown of SDCC but they have failed to recognise that fact to an extent it is unsafe to even walk it tonight. I respect your view as i hope you will respect mine.
@Tom Fennelly: I wasn’t disagreeing with you. Just the example. A private pub isn’t really cultural nor does it add to the area more than any other pub really (and I last drank there a week ago and it’s my rugby teams regular).
I also love the dodder and regularly run and walk there and think the bridge linking Sean Walsh to behind the victory centre was a great idea. Though I’m not a fan of the new running ground they have destroyed a large area of wild land for that was home to foxes and berries and think the council should have worked to find somewhere less ecologically important that end of the dodder. I’d also be in favour of maximising local walking routes and was happy to see the new tree planting around the parks. But outside of that it is just tarmac paths and too little attention.
I wouldn’t decry money put into drug treatment in the area, these aren’t and shouldn’t be mutually exclusive. And cutting back (significantly) on the costs and scale of the Hellfire plan would leave more money for other important ventures in the area. It just reads a bit blind to pump so much into one thing that isn’t to scale instead of having a holistic approach to Tallaght and its surrounding environs. Tallaght is a decent trek for tourists, invest in maximising the experience. Like bohernabreena, glenasmole area etc is where the Fianna are supposed to have trained in myth and where Oisín landed back from tír na nÓg. We have Seafinn passage tomb up the road as well. There’s a wealth to be ‘capitalised’ on in an environmentally friendly and tasteful way. But no, they wanna go all Vegas on one area.
Also, SDCC if you are reading this, would you consider throwing a few bob to my rugby team that trains youth and senior level people from Tallaght and relies on two cargo containers to change in with no bathroom facilities on a single uneven pitch with a couple of flood lights that we have to use a huge extension cord for to stretch from the containers when we train. We played Athy last week and they had several pitches, proper changing rooms with toilets and a club house with a bar and fireplace!!! But like.. We’d settle for a toilet.
Just leave it alone!!!
I’ve been going up there since I was a kid, and now I bring my kid up there.
Stop trying to turn everything into a cash cow
@Ian Downes: I totally agree with you, they won’t stop until every bit of green is gone!
The government could not find 5 million euro to buy 4000 acres of land at lugallaw to add to the wicklow national park but want to spend 20 million on this monstrosity of a plan that would be detrimental to our wildlife. Stop this nonsense now.
Disgraceful to see it littered with graffiti. It’s a 300 year old building.
@Seán Ó Briain: except that the crook who built it did so by leveling a five thousand year old cairn similar to newgrange just he could use the stone for his hunting lodge. I say knock down the hell fire building and rebuild the cairn.
@Aido Yollom: the story of the cairns destruction is part of the story of the Hellfire. Its what makes it. Especially when the Hellfire fire is linked to anger at the sacrilege.
Keep the mound behind. Recent archaeological excavations were great. Instead of investing in knocking down the Hellfire and building a new cairn. Invest in some longer term excavation and survey of the site and surrounding area.
I had a pleasure of taking part in a fundraiser for a sick child, where the archaeologist involved in the dig a few years ago gave us a walking tour of the area and the mound. He said he would love to do more trenches and surveys in the area and that he believed there was a lot more history and information to be given up from proper archaeological excavation.
Great idea, place is a mess anyway. Bring it on.
It’s an absolute disgrace that they would continue with this. And of course it will damage wildlife and the surroundings.
Some skumbag nephew or relative of a TD or Dáil politition has seen the number of dubs and wicklow day trippers to the hellfire club e very summer and is looking to cash in on its popularity by taking it over and charging people into this site which has ALWAYS been free! They want to make it into a cash cow like newgrange,trim castle Loftus hall or any other of the visitor centres around the country,
@Jensen Bhroin: So, without going into the ramble of Athy Rugby club and toilets and Gleanasmole and Bohernabreena and Rugby what I am both suggesting and asking is; was the proposal made by Firhouse Community Council not of more merit or at least equal to the proposal in question.
@Tom Fennelly: I think it’s apples and oranges and I haven’t seen the proposal from the firhouse community council to comment on it fully. The firhouse plan from what you say has some merit though there are some aspects I would question if the aim was tourism (which is the aim of the Hellfire) but not in other terms. Do I think there are other more mertitous projects in Tallaght? Most definitely. But I don’t know enough about the proposal you are talking about other than the paragraphs above (whereas I’ve researched the hellfire proposals and follow the case) . And I obviously don’t think the Hellfire project is justified so I don’t know if you’d want yours to be considered as equal or in reference to it.
Knock it down. Grotty monstrosity is a symbol of British exploitation of Ireland. It has no merit as a building and is a magnet for antisocial behaviour and nutters.
The absolute state of the roads and parking is insane. Well done to the council for ignoring the misinformation from some Nimby locals and pushing to Improve the area.
What sort of idiot thinks people who want to visit an area of natural beauty, a forest are going to sit in a coffee shop ?
SDCC need their head seen to on this one. Bad enough they have allowed residential building to within a mile of this site but now they want to build onto it.
Its wilderness, leave it alone. If you want coffee or toilets you can stop at The merry plough boy , Buglers or the old mill pubs, only a few miles in any direction.
have your say