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Updated: 11.45pm
TALKS OVER THE formation of a government have ended for the night.
There is some speculation that water charges may be suspended for two years, under a new arrangement, as one Fianna Fáil source told TheJournal.ie “progress has been made,” and that the negotiating teams would meet again tomorrow.
Earlier, the party had said if no deal could be reached on the charges, it would seek to put the matter put to the Dáil.
Government formation talks between the two Civil War parties resumed today in Dublin’s Trinity College - 60 days after the general election was held.
Speaking on his way in, Fianna Fáil’s Michael McGrath said the talks had now reached a crucial juncture.
“I think we are in the end game at this stage, so everyone needs to know very quickly whether or not an agreement is possible,” McGrath said.
We do believe that it is no longer tenable that Dáil Éireann would not be allowed debate the issue of water and our own party whip has made it known to the government chief whip that we would be very anxious that Dáil Éireann would have a chance to debate the issues that we are debating in this building – around Irish Water and water charges.
He said the party would like to see the debate happen as quickly as tomorrow.
We will vote accordingly in the order of business if that is necessary tomorrow to accommodate such a debate.
McGrath’s party colleague Barry Cowen said if Fine Gael didn’t want to follow the will of Fianna Fáil, maybe it would follow the will of the Dáil.
Over 90 of the current 158 TDs were elected on a mandate that water charges be abolished or suspended.
Call for a debate
Earlier in the Dáil, a number of TDs – Sinn Féin members, independents and AAA-PBP deputies – pushed to have a debate on water charges.
Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin said in response that his party was open to it, just not today. The party has since moved to clarify its position, and said it may facilitate debate tomorrow.
McGrath said this afternoon that his party was conscious of the length of time discussions had taken so far.
He said that if it is not possible “to reach an agreement on some substantive issues including around water then in our view the final arbitrator should be Dáil Éireann in respect of these matters and it would be our preference that the issue would be dealt with by agreement so that an incoming government has a degree of certainty and stability”.
When asked if his party was willing to facilitate a Fine Gael minority government without an agreement on water, McGrath said it was Fianna Fáil’s preference to have these issues dealt with upfront.
We have put it to Fine Gael time and again that it would better to have an agreement in place.
“In the event that we can’t reach an agreement then we will consider whether or not we should proceed and allow a minority government be formed if they can win the support of the independents but it would be on the basis that Dáil Éireann would have the final say.”
Stuck on Irish Water
Speaking earlier today, Finance Minister Michael Noonan said Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil may not be able to settle a deal to form a government, confirming Irish Water was still a sticking point.
“The compromises that Fianna Fáil want and the compromises that we’re prepared to accept, they don’t match,” Noonan told RTÉ on his way into cabinet this morning.
Both parliamentary parties are taking up strong positions. So it’s quite difficult. But we’re still talking. And we’re in a reasonably optimistic frame of mind about it. But we may not be able to settle it and I think everyone knows the consequences of that.
Urgent legislation on suspended sentences
The government formation talks were not discussed as the acting ministers met today at cabinet. A government spokesman said later that consideration was not being given to bringing in an independent mediator to chair any further discussions.
Emergency legislation to deal with the suspended sentences issue was discussed in cabinet today, but ministers are set to wait until the full judgement on the issue is published tomorrow before proceeding with emergency legislation.
A High Court ruling found last week that certain aspects of the law governing suspended sentences were unconstitutional and it’s expected the decision will have serious implications for the criminal justice system.
With reporting by Isabel Hayes
Which basically means that no, they haven’t changed one iota now pi** off and stop asking.
Is that true Tony?
“Kenny said that all records and data are held in compliance with Data Protection, Freedom of Information and National Archives legislation.” Micheal Noonan asked for information about Paddy McKillen from Alan Dukes in IBRC. Alan Dukes replied that he wouldn’t put anything in writing about Paddy McKillen and IBRC in case there would be a request under Freedom of Information and this information would become public knowledge. He requested a meeting with the Minister instead. It is quite obvious from this that things are not being put in writing on purpose so that we, the people, are left in the dark. The “paucity” of information still goes on under Enda Kenny’s regime.
Tony,
106 green thumbs after 4 hours, not one red thumb… Contrasts with the many green thumbs for comments critical of Enda’s mismanagement. Odd…
You’re odd..
Especially as you didn’t even redthumb it!
If I had Matt, it would have negated my comment…
And after 7 hours it has it’s first red thumb!
Sorry, I done it to ease your pain.
Thanks Matt,
I love a helpful minion…
the cover up goes on
How long is this eejit going to keep blaming the previous government for everything?
About 2 years!
He will keep it up until he’s (was) a member of the previous government,
Unlikely,
Rumours of a bigger job in Europe…
Until he copper fastens his €3000 a week , oh and yes he’ll take it and blame the huge pensions on the previous administration , he is unable to change it and yet he can put his hands into your pay packet and bank account , ah well laws and taxes only for the little people here in the Emerald Isle !
So this is the ” open and transparent Government’ that Mr Kenny promised us, which most of us were naive enough to believe at that time.!!
As Pat Rabbitte said on TV ” sure isn’t that the kind of thing you would say at election time”
The more things change, the more they stay the same!
Somebody tell me there is a heave coming or SOMETHING! He won’t answer questions, won’t debate, never commits, his plans are waffle. He infuriates me. Id give him some credit if he deserved it, but every time he makes a hames of it, guy is a nightmare to watch day in day out. But hey it’s Saturday, right!?
CAPT.
Kenny’s a graduate from the Brian Cowen school for the verbally inept.
Ha! Defo from the same spoofing cloth alright.
Lads he could be waiting for one of the advisors to give him the nod before he opens his gob
I would say so Bill, but a question as straight forward as this and he cant answer it is pathetic. Is there any truth in the rumour he still gets dressed with his 2 hands up in the air waiting for his jumper to go over his head?
They are all being handled that’s why they won’t go out in public and debate they can only work off a script.
Card board cut out c##t of a politician.
60 % of those who vote gave his party their no 1
I wouldn’t trust Enda even if he did say he changed it. The man talks out if the side if his mouth. Dishonest to his very core, of course nothing has changed.!
Maybe we should ask if the legislation under DP act, NA act and FOI act only actually allows for a “paucity” of info to be kept.
Then it is Endas responsibility as chief legislator to change it.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Lying Enda, corrupted little man.
Accountability?From the Government?
Well,Sir I shall challenge you to a duel!
If it ain’t broke, why fix it?
Poor record keeping got his predecessor off the hook. It will in time get Enda off the hook.
Enda Kenny is as bad a Brian Cowen.
At least Brian Cowan had the craic on the drink. Imagine having a pint with dry sh1te inda.
Brian would buy ya a pint and scope for a round or two….inda would do a runner before his turn.
And expense it!
Yeah ger Brian would definitely put it all on the expense tab….Enda though would be paying for every tab in every bar…..even though he didn’t have to.
Worse,
He blames Cowen while repeating the mistakes.
That would be a no then………
This government courageously drew a definite line in the sand under the shady dealings, ineptitude and downright hoodwinking of the Irish population that passed for government before them!!!
Sand was used is because it allows theline to be easily rubbed out and re-drawn or blurred by blustery air if needs be.
Records? These b*****ds whether they keep records or not choose whether to share this information, they are almost above the law at this stage. They have no fear of the electorate, they have no shame and couldn’t care less about their Country. Their only ambition is to milk the system for as much as they can get and walk away smiling to their new jobs and patting themselves on the back for a job well done. They get massive pensions, perks and jobs and screw this Country. They pompously set themselves up as the voice and conscience of the people and then ignore public concerns. They stay in power no matter what we think – Wallace, Perry, O’Rielly etc., etc., who in any other job would be sacked!!! Sorry but sick of them ALL!
geraldine they are not almost above the law they are above the law they are the law while they can appoint the judges ,democracy my ass.
Would it really matter what he said they have all turned out to be liars. It’s like a merry go round of different liars asking for our support .
Paucity my hole.
Well we have him there so basically in my book he should make everything public weather it’s the way records are kept or records dat are kept
What a lovely photograph of the dáil.
Is one of those buildings the shop that closed recently?
Its not the Dail its the oireachtas. Huge difference.
More like he can’t say, there’s no record of the method being changed.
Yet, Matt
Parasitic greedy self serving spineless people they are truely disgusting
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