Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
THE GOVERNMENT MADE the decision yesterday not to follow the advice from the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) to move the country to a Level 5 lockdown.
Instead the whole country will be under Level 3 restrictions for three weeks from midnight tonight.
Taoiseach Micheál Martin said we were in a “very different situation” to March and that the “economic, social and non-Covid impacts of the response must be different now”.
Tánaiste Leo Varadkar – in a stinging rebuke of NPHET – last night pointed to the wider societal impact such as job losses, business closures and mental health implications of going back to full lockdown.
However, NPHET had warned that moving to Level 5 now was the “only opportunity” to get Covid-19 back “under control”. If Covid cases rise significantly over the coming weeks and months, it may be the case that further restrictions are eventually implemented.
So, what do you think? Do you think Ireland will be placed under Level 5 restrictions before the end of the year?
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Country can’t afford it
@Paul O Faolain:
Can’t earn or spend money if you are on a ventilator….. Or dead !!.
@Paul O Faolain: unfortunate thing is that at the moment the R number is hovering between 1.3 and 1.4, so cases will keep creeping up, and so far the virus has shown an approximate 4% fatality rate. It was also pointed out yesterday that at the current trends we run out of ICU beds in 3-4 weeks. Regardless of the politics, looks like it could be a cruel winter
@Paul O Faolain: country can’t afford not to
@Michael Clinton: can’t pay for a health service if the 99.9% unaffected do not have jobs
@Paul O Faolain: too late, sentiment has changed, orders are being cancelled and downgraded. The year is write off. Start planning for Q2 next year.
@D Mems: Give over, Fatality rate of 4 percent is NonsenseYea in April when we weren’t testing people. Over 100 cases per day for over a month. No deaths yesterday. Deaths are down 97 percent on the peak.
@Tony Humphreys: where did you get them figures.
@Michael Clinton: ventilators don’t run on fresh air..graves cost money
@Michael Clinton:
So how you factor 1 or two dead not spending money against 10s of thousands alone but unemployed and clearly not spending money
It’s a balance there are no absolutes here
@Monster Munch: simple maths, total confirmed cases are 38,539 with 1,810 deaths, that’s 4.69%. I know the fatality rate has and will fluctuate up and down, that’s why I said ‘so far’, but after 7 months is a good approximation.
@D Mems: No its not even close to a good approximation and I think you know that.
@Michael Clinton:You need people working to pay for the ventilators and the bottomless pit that is the hse.
@D Mems: lies, damn lies and of course… statistics. They weren’t even testing symptomatic people when the first wave hit so you know there were huge numbers infected who weren’t picked up in the stats, but it’s hard to miss a death so they never slip through the net. 4% is baloney and well you know it
@Michael Clinton: can’t fund or support a health service without an economy and tax payers.
@Michael Clinton: yeah the ones on them prob werent earning much.
@D Mems: You are correct the CFR for Ireland is 4%. But as serology studies predicted we had three times the cases in Ireland than first reported up to about July. So we would actually have around 90,000-100,000 cases in total meaning an IFR of around 1.8%.
@Paul O Faolain: Country can’t afford not to. If they don’t do it now, the economic cost will be far worse. The Government have just set us up for a Christmas lockdown because of their short sightedness. Had they gone to Level 5, families would have been able to celebrate Christmas together with some social distancing and other precautions. They would have spent lots of money on Christmas too. Well done Micky and Leo!
@D Mems: Health officials were even saying last night that 2.5 percent will end up in hospital. But you keep the scaremongering going there lad.
1) Government has 5 emergency Levels of measures re SARS-COV-2,where is the financial plan re workers, businesses,etc for these measures? Tanaiste mentioned not been able to afford Level 5.
If there’s no financial plan for these measures,why not?
Its not NPHET”s job to formulate financial plans for these measures,that’s the job of Government!
2)Why no urgency over providing extra capacity in Hospitals especially ICU’s for the different Levels?
Today there’s only 33 available Critical Care Beds available ,compared to eg 24th April, that’s a significant reduction of 76.92%!!
3) Looking at the detailed letter sent by email to Minister for Health &cc to Department of the Taoiseach and Chair of the Senior Officials Group for Covid-19 sent on Sunday,his detailed concerns are completely valid plus it’s obvious that Government received this letter Sunday and he said he’d be happy to discuss it further.
Who leaked that letter?I don’t believe the leak came from CMO.¡
4)Its the job of NPHET and CMO to use their various expertise, knowledge and skills to issue advice to Government,it’s not their job to formulate financial plans to support the measures needed, that’s Government’s job!It would be reasonable to acknowledge that and reasonable for the CMO and the public to assume that there would be financial plans to cover the different 5 Levels.
Baring that in mind,why did Tanaiste attack the CMO?
5)What is the Government plan if the country has to go to Level 5 and it doesn’t work?
Could Government publish that plan?If Government have no plan for that scenario then why attack the CMO?It’s not the CMO’s job to formulate economic plans!
The CMO has already given advice to increase capacity,staff, testing and tracing,etc and measures that can be taken now to prevent Level 5.
6) NPHET had gotten a worrying modelling report over projections for SARS-COV-2,it’s included in the letter,plus extra stats since last Acting CMO letter to Minister for Health on 1st October so knowing that why did Tanaiste say nothing had changed since then?
I never thought I’d be defending CMO Houlihan but Tanaiste’s personal attacks on him was totally wrong baring in mind all I’ve highlighted above and I absolutely don’t believe Tony Houlihan leaked that letter!
I know that in the past that as Tanaiste said they didn’t always follow NPHET’S advice but it’s foolish to ignore the level of concerns NPHET’ &CMO has as described in the email which is published:just Google :latest letters from CMO to Minister for Health.
@Michael Clinton: except that 98%+ of the population won’t need a ventilator. Stop with the overreacting.
@DK: it’s a perfect approximation of the fatality rate when counting positive cases. What’s the point in working out a fatality rate based on numbers of people tested. It’s obviously not going to be fatal for those that test negative. God sake.
@Paul O Faolain: the country can afford it actually ! Money has nothing to do with this in my. It’s education Vs ignorance.
Level 4 in two weeks.
@Michael Carolan: level 5 I’d say! When going against NPHET recommendations doesn’t work, Mehole won’t go against them again
@Cliodhna Lynch: I hope not. It’s just too drastic. A tighter restriction to level 4 and see what happens over the following 2/3 weeks. If level 5 is then needed then do it.
@Cliodhna Lynch: Who is Mehole?
@Michael Carolan: By staying at L3 for longer, the situation gets worse far faster. Drastic steps taken now might have meant a chance for some sort of respite for Christmas; now that slim hope is gone, we’ll be back pacing our cages and watching super-spreader parties on social media. But hey, lobbyists know best, the rest of us can get on with dying for the extremely short-term benefit of the economy.
@Michael Carolan: So how many people do you think should get sick or die before we put everything aside and get our nation well again?
@Cliodhna Lynch: that’s how it’s set up, the spin will be not ff fault, they where told to do it
What a ridiculous poll unless intended to scare monger even further. The reality is that from midnight tonight, it might as well be a Level 5 bar a very few exceptions.
No other country in Europe has these and our incidence rate per 100k people is one of the lowest in Europe still.
Our main issue… Surprise surprise, seems to be the extreme lack of ICU capacity as again (surprise surprise) the Government did not do anything or invest properly over the summer to create dozens more ICU spaces, acting prudently.
So now, thousands of people in hospitality will lose their jobs, thousands of families without a proper income, thousands of family homes at risk of eviction as this Government also voted down a bill to guard against evictions and rent increases last week only
@Nigel o’Neill: we most certainly don’t have one of the lowest rates in Europe, that is a complete lie
@Nigel o’Neill: and we have fewer ICU beds. Our health service added just 30 hospital beds knowing that this winter would be very challenging.
@Bountyop: our 14 day incidence rate per 100k is just around the 100 mark. There are many with over 300 and some at over 200. 12 countries higher than us in total https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
@Nigel o’Neill: And at least 16 better than us on Worldometer- we are actually worse than the UK. So not one of the lowest rates in Europe
@Bountyop: And did you take the rates of testing per 100k into account?
@Nigel o’Neill: Other countries are imposing far stricter measures, look at Paris closing all cafes and bars, Spain has severe lockdowns in several different regions now including Madrid and Valencia, Italy put strict measures and proper enforcement in place early and is managing to keep second wave numbers much lower than France, Spain and the UK. Our incidence rate is nowhere near the lowest in Europe right now and is rising at an alarming rate in many different parts of the country. We need an all-island approach with strict measures and proper enforcement if we want to get some measure of control before Christmas.
@Kevin Lonergan: The measures in Paris and Madrid are less stringent than our level 3.
@Kevin Lonergan: you may have noticed that Paris and Madrid are indeed Cities, not countries as you referred to them and thus Localised Lockdowns as indeed has been in play in Dublin
@Lee Galiezitte: – “5 October From tomorrow (Tuesday 6th October) Paris is to shut all bars, gyms and swimming pools for two weeks in a bid to combat the spread of coronavirus. The move comes as the city’s coronavirus alert status is raised to maximum”
https://www.completefrance.com/travel/coronavirus-2020-is-it-safe-to-travel-to-france-1-6555880
@Nigel o’Neill: As for the lockdown in Dublin, I live in the city centre and I can assure you that the vast majority of cafés and restaurants with outside seating in the city centre, are not abiding by the rule that states they can have no more than 15 customers seated outside. As for distancing between tables, I have yet to come across any that are implementing that rule.
If the numbers keep rising and we don’t move to level 5, it’s a safe bet it’s because the current shambolic government doesn’t want the political fallout of NPHET being proved right.
@The Risen: nonsense. Level 5 when we have gone through level 3 and 4 first and they don’t stem it. Can’t go level 5 when NI is still not locked down and we have not even enforced level 2/3 properly.
Government is snookered either way. If we were in level 5 today everyone would be saying the who runs the country and they destroyed business etc etc.
Opposition politics at its best.
@The Risen: if we went to level 5 yesterday you would have been giving out. If we go to level 5 you will give out. Classic opposition wanting it every which way and criticising every action taken regardless.
Like everyone I dont want any lockdown but by not moving to a level 5 now means we are more likely to be in a level 5 at xmas which no one wants. We should of moved to a level 5 now so we could have relatively normal xmas. This whole pandemic really highlights the main issues we have with our healthcare system, the very little beds we have, it wasnt for that we wouldn’t need the lockdown at extreme levels.
@Siobhan Rosemary: moving to a level 5 now would put thousands and thousands out of jobs and close businesses up and down the country.
If people just stick to the guidelines and think about their actions then maybe we wont need to go to level 4 or 5.
@Siobhan Rosemary: if there was ever a time I’d except a level 5, it would be Christmas. Last lockdown felt like Christmas day on a loop. I’m normally away for Christmas. So not looking forward to it either way.
@Derek Lyster: but that’s the thing people are not listening and doing as they please. So it’s only a matter of time before we will have to go to a level 5. It’s not what I want but by the looks of things that’s what will most likely happen so I’d rather a level 5 now instead of level 3 leading to a 5 which draws it out longer and will ruin xmas
@Siobhan Rosemary: like our lady full lockdown, level 5 will last for many months. There is no way it would be over by Christmas. The first lockdown was meant to be for 2 weeks and we never fully reopened
With people behaving irresponsible it’s guaranteed level 5 before Christmas. Come on people! No more party’s and anti mask March’s.
@Dave Barrett: parties and anti-mask marches are annoying but they are not what makes the pandemic grow. Unfortunately most infections come from hospitals, care homes, factories and now probably schools, all places that cannot just close without doing huge damage to society.
Calling the Gardai because your neighbours are having 10 people over, or arresting a few anti-maskeejits won’t actually make any substantial difference to the development of the pandemic.
I don’t think the government or the people of the country can afford it.
Level 5 won’t work unless our land border with the other state is closed and everyone arriving here is placed in quarantine.
So its Either the New Zealand approach or the Swedish approach, and we all know they won’t quarantine travellers like New Zealand. Sooo??
@David Lee: we are pretty much the Swedish way..
by asking rather than enforcing as they do elsewhere. We have had greater success in keeping deaths down. Swedish numbers are low now as they do not trace and test… They just tell anyone positive to “tell their mates” and only people with serious symptoms are tested. Many of our positives come from contact tracing and have mild or no symptoms – Sweden does not do this so of course their numbers will be low. It will be interesting to see what happens to the Swedish retirement and nursing home which have been closed for months and were scheduled to re-open to visitors on the 1st October. (Yes the Swedish model has kept nursing homes closed for longer than anywhere else among other things).
Yep, will be at level 5 for christmas. And all the returning emigrants will still come BECAUSE THE BLOODY BOARDER WAS NEVER MANAGED PROPERLY !
@Mark: can you back that up with figures?
@Mark: the were saying recently that only two per cent of cases were because of travel.
@Mark: Who is this ‘boarder’ you speak of?
@Mark: Yhea they will probably lock all down, close schools the lot from mid December to mid January.give everyone a weeks notice to get Santa sorted…
@Mark: we really don’t require anyone coming into the country to increase infection rates, we have done a pretty good job on our own over the last two months…if we want to know why that is, we need to be looking inward at our own collective behaviour, not outward for someone else to blame…
These polls are ridiculous.
@Colleen: it’s the comments we are here for…this is an entertainment site.
@Colleen: Do you think we should invade? :)
That government retainer with these polls must be making you a fortune.
Double the fines every week until the numbers start to go down.
@Munster1: 0 x 2 = 0.
@Munster1:
Arrrrrh, the beatings will continue until crew morale improves
@Dave McCabe: absolutely… the morale of the country might improve if people who went against the public health advice and guidelines faced some consequences instead of pushing us all towards level 4 and 5.
Just for once plz don’t spend the day reporting about covid or Trump they are both a disease
@Denise Prendergast: This is the journal. Not having Trump and Covid news is like complaining there are Big Macs in McDonalds.
No. Because Level 5 Restrictions means putting 500,000 people out of their jobs and onto PUP. A bit of sanity was restored yesterday. NPHET were publicly slapped down.
If people comply with L3 then no and if they don’t, and cases keep rising, then yes.
@GrumpyAulFella: if they don’t generally abide by level 3 they won’t abide by level 5 either
But generally I see very high levels of compliance
No. The people and the country cannot afford it at the risk of having zero healthcare in the future which is what happens in austerity. Also, a lockdown will solve absolutely nothing. It only delays the inevitable. The first one was necessary to put tools in place. It’s not a band aid to be used over and over again.
Focus most resources on the most vulnerable, increase capacity in hospitals and stop this myopic approach , the fighting and finger pointing.
That’s the simple truth.
If we are the government should fall.. If we are not Holohan’s could be in trouble
@tirnanog1979: why, what’s happening to Holohans?
@tirnanog1979: why would he be in trouble.
Its all down to money and greed
Absolutely…. walked in to a shop this morning with my mum as she needed milk.. I counted six people with no masks on.. late twenties/ thirties…. so I turned my mum around and walked back out… I was shocked .. Some people just don’t care
@Maria Heraty:
Shop needs to bar people not wearing masks. It really comes down to businesses being responsible if the public aren’t.
My local supermarket will not let you in without a mask. And rightly so.
The constant refrain is listen to science, listen to scientists and to medical experts.
This is a link to a declaration from epidemiologists, immunologist and other health and science experts in America, has been endorsed and co-signed by over two thousand other medical and scientific experts and practitioners along with tens of thousands of private citizens, calling for a change in approach in Dealing with Covid 19, away from the devastation caused by lockdowns and towards Focused Protection of the vulnerable that would leave the rest of society, particularly the young, able to continue with normal living and development.
Similar expert denunciation of lockdowns have come from Canada, Germany and Australia.
They should not be ignored.
100%
Yes, and if they wait much longer it’ll be just in time for the Christmas period
Unless a treatment is coming soon I’d say Mieheal Martin will be remembered as the granny killer. Fingers crossed they know something about an upcoming treatment we dont.
We are looking at this wrong. Sweden currently has no lockdown and a 14 day infection rate of 32 per 100k. We are over 100. There are numerous studies now out that show lockdowns are ineffective. We need to look at worldwide data and come up with evidence based strategies. That way we will bring everyone with us. Otherwise the government will be stuck in this never ending cycle and our economy and social structures will be destroyed.
100% yes with all the ar se ho les not wearing masks etc
@Jay Kearney: Yes, fine those who won’t wear masks or have house parties. Only when it hits one’s pockets it will work, even the UK have introduced fines as well as other countries in Europe. Eg: France.
I’d say it’s a couple of weeks till we are looking at a level 5
Obviously, Tony needs the glory. He thinks the people still love him, he has a God complex. Also, the government don’t have a Plan B. FF need the boost that FG got in the polls. Leo should try and work more constructively instead of acting as opposition. Two weeks and Level 5. We ran into level 3 eyes wide shut.
Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!
As the gardai have been given no powers to restrict movement or break up gatherings I think we will be at Level 4 before we know it. No point in putting the country onto Level 3 if the rules aren’t being enforced. Joke of government, those that don’t follow the guidelines need to be dealt with, hit them where it hurts, in the pocket with fines, otherwise Level 2, 3 or 4 makes very little difference. When will this limp government ever get the message.
I mean we shouldn’t be so morbidly sure about this sort of thing. Who knows maybe level 3 will help us now that we’ve been scared by the prospect of level 5. Or maybe I’m just naive but by god I’d rather be naive about these things then depressingly cynic about it all like some of the folks you see on here
It would be political suicide.
Amazing how many commenters on here are almost jubilant about covid 19 like they want a lock down.
Yes, it will happen, and we’ll be under level 5 restrictions significantly longer when it does happen, than we would be if we bit the bullet and did it right now.
Level 5 by early December. Christmas will be a chicken and toilet roll. The only plus side is I don’t have to visit any relatives or worse, have them visiting me and drinking my fine wines.
Yeah because they don’t have a real strategy so it looks like we’re going to continue screwing the country.
Silly question really.
If cases continue to rise, hospitalisation rises and deaths rise, then yes, naturally we will have no choice but to do it.
If cases stabilise and deaths/hospitalisation remains low, then I think we will be hovering between level 2 and 3 …maybe even 4 for the remainder of the pandemic.
Level 5 would be a national disaster and really should be brought in as a last resort/worst case scenario. It shouldn’t be introduced on a whim by NPHET.
@Darren Anthony Corr:
I’ll also like to add, I just returned from (an essential) trip to Denmark (and yes I’m being a good citizen and restricting my movement) but I have to say, for a country with the same population as ourselves, similar number of daily cases and a similar 14 day incidence rate, they are just getting on with it.
Bars/restaurants close at 10, hand sanitizers at entrances to shops/restaurants and mandatory masks on public transport. But from looking at the media/tv over there it wasn’t all that they talked about. Life is going on outside this island, meanwhile we are revelling in the hysteria it seems.
If they had more ICU beds like other EU countries that care about their residents then there would be no need for Level 5.
House parties and casual no-mask wearers are annoying to those of us who respect the guidelines, but they are not what makes the pandemic grow. Unfortunately most infections come from hospitals, care homes, factories and now probably schools, all places that cannot just close without doing huge damage to society.
Calling the Gardai because your neighbours are having 10 people over, or arresting a few anti-maskeejits won’t actually make any substantial difference to the development of the pandemic.
I’m afraid it may happen. The government were right to reject Level 5 for the present. However, Holohan only has to sit tight and if the infection count goes up (as it probably would anyway) he can then say he warned us.
Between anti maskers, big business and inept politicians that are only considering their own pockets how could we be any other way.
Of course it will.
Why punish the people who are following the rules. Clamp down on those who break the rules.
The talk of limiting off licence sales because of the likes of what happened in Spanish arch or at house parties is what’s wrong. Why punish everyone rather than those drinking on the streets or at these gatherings. Putting good people out of work rather than punish rule breakers is just not right.
What’s the difference, work all day, try to sleep, work all day, try to sleep when you can, and occasionally buy something to eat. Been my life for the last 7 months or so already. Nothing has changed except i can even get the odd decent meal anymore again.
have your say