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POPE FRANCIS HAS told Ireland’s bishops that the way in which the Catholic Church confronts abuse “can offer an example and a warning to society as a whole”.
His remarks, in a meeting with the senior clerics at the Dominican Convent in Cabra, followed this afternoon’s Phoenix Park Mass, where the pope asked the congregation for forgiveness for abuse by the clergy and other Church members.
In those earlier remarks, he asked for forgiveness for the times that the Church did not show survivors of abuse “compassion and the seeking of justice and truth through concrete actions”.
Speaking to the bishops, he said that the Church needed to acknowledge and remedy with evangelical honesty and courage its past failures with regard to the protection of children and other vulnerable groups.
“In recent years, you as a body have resolutely moved forward, not only by undertaking paths of purification and reconciliation with victims of abuse, but also with the help of the National Board for Safeguarding of Children in the Church in Ireland, by establishing a stringent set of norms aimed at ensuring the safety of young persons.
“In these years, all of us have had our eyes opened to the gravity and extent of sexual abuse in various social settings.
“In Ireland, as elsewhere, the honesty and integrity with which the Church chooses to confront this painful chapter of her history can offer an example and a warning to society as a whole.”
The pope’s remarks were distributed to the press in advance of his meeting with the bishops this evening.
He addressed a range of other subjects at the convent meeting, where he also praised the bishops for “the concern you show the poor, the excluded and those in need of a helping hand”.
Around 130,000 attended the Phoenix Park for this afternoon’s Mass. In Dublin city centre, a demonstration in support of abuse survivors was held at the same time.
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Asked for forgiveness, yet no actual apology. Ireland’s changing, the church cannot keep up if they continue the way they have.
@Sarah Bourke: Europe is changing never mind Ireland. The progressives are leading the charge for “change” into more promise times…
@Sayitlikeitis: it’s about time that parasite institution is rid of. A plague on our ability to move forward.
@Sarah Bourke: He did apologise. Numerous times today. Including Knock & The Dublin masses. I’m not a devout Catholic, but I do believe. I think the Church’s crimes of the past are a disgrace. Tho that’s where they are.. In the past. I’m sure it won’t be the last case of abuse within the Church, just as it won’t be the last case in society as a whole ..
@The Viking: an apology was not given, Justice will not be served to the thousands of people effected by the Catholic Church if they continue to deflect like they have. All mother and babies homes and sites need to be investigated. Redress to the victims. Perpetrators brought to justice. The seperation of church and state.
@Sarah Bourke: the reign of abuse, murder, paedophilla, corruption and the systematic protection of the abusers along with the cover ups needs to end.
@Sarah Bourke: the cover up that was helped by the goverment that one?
@Sayitlikeitis: yes. The government acted like cowards and the church continued their reign of abuse. The fear tactic may have worked in the past, the deflection by the church and the cover ups are vile.
@Sarah Bourke: do you think maybe the priest were atheist. And just in it for the power and young boys?
@Sayitlikeitis: give over. Those individuals who raped, abused and tortured children who facilitated by the rest of the clergy and the institution. The state coward in fear and later turned a blind eye. My thiughts are with the victims and their family’s this weekend, as they watch the parade that serves as a reminder of their pain.
@Sarah Bourke: See every time in his speeches at the masses he listed the crimes of the Church. After every sin/crime he listed he said Forgive Us. That’s an apology in my thinking. Redress & conviction would not go a miss.For those that seem to have got away with their actions ,yes they need to be brought to justice. Some have been sentenced. So it’s not like they are immune to custodial sentences any more. I just think you need to also understand that there are a lot of people in Ireland that find comfort in the Church. A lot of people that feel they have been saved by the Church or assisted by them whilst in need. You seem to forget this. Look forward in life and stop dwelling in the past and the sins of a few.
@Sarah Bourke: give over? These things are usually not so simple and have many different and offeten complicated reasons. But I’m sure you’ll over simplify it for us.
@Sayitlikeitis: it’s very simple. Individuals were abused and tortured by the Catholic Church. The abusers were protected while babies were dumped in septic tanks. Stark and simple.
@The Viking: I dwell on the fact that no formal apology has been given, no justice has been served the abusers roaming free it died like saints. The victims seen as nusinaces for the church. I’ll dwell on the fact that this is not in the past it’s here right now and will continue to be until their is a clear separation.
@Sayitlikeitis: I don’t know about them being atheist, but I’d say men with paedophile tendencies were attracted to life in the church, knowing two things: they would have easy access to children and they would be in an almost untouchable position of respect. Even if this is so, the church put protection of the institution ahead of the protection of children when the abuse became known. Dioceses and parishes all over the world handled these type of allegations in an almost identical way, so much so that it’s obvious this was church policy coming directly from the Vatican.
@The Viking: yes a lot of people for and solace in the church and there’s nothing wrong with that but that should never, ever be used as mitigating circumstances for the abuse, sexual and physical, of children and adults in their thousands. The Vatican have more details on the abuse than anybody else and the pope as the head of the church should be made to hand all of that information over rather than keep it hidden. We can’t forgive until we know the full scale of what has been done.
@Sarah Bourke: only in Ireland.. people vote to allow unborn children be killed. Forward three months they are slobbering about child abuse. Of course what happened in and by the Catholic Church was a scandal of the highest order. But will those that voted Yes to abortion keep your hypocritical mouths shut, for there is no greater child abuse that the abuse you sanctioned..
@Stephen Duffy: I voted to repeal the 8th. Abortion should be an option, don’t try and twist it. The church facilitied the abuse and rape of children. There’s a difference.
@Stephen Duffy: those who continue to go to mass and support the church financially, those who say to put the abuse in the past that’s hypocritical.
@Dave O Keeffe: I think the same. Just think that a lot of people commenting are just repeating others views on this subject and not their own views.. I understand that the the Church hid and covered up these crimes. Yet I don’t believe that everyone in the Church thought this the right way thing to do . All the priesthood seem to be getting tarnished with the same brush. That I think is also wrong.
@The Viking: like the way all atheists and the media are painted the wrong way? I have zero respect for anyone who allowed the abuse to continue and who stood back and allowed the cover ups, almost as bad as the abusers. I’m not a Catholic and I believe the church is toxic I have no issue with people having faith.
@Sarah Bourke: and you are facilitating the killing of unborn children. Every time there is an abortion a children heart stops beating. Total double standards.. there is only a difference because you want it to be different..
@Sarah Bourke: well it’s s good job I didn’t say that then.. every single person involve or covered up should be thrown out of the Church and brought before the Courts.
@Dermot Lane: you don’t think for instance they could have been abused them self’s? Then sent on to the chruch. There was all sorts going on back the epically in family homes!! People like Sarah are single minded, and firm in their movement, I’m sure Sarah was not affected directly. The issue is not just the chruch, it’s to do with the government, garda and communities of the times. They all had their parts to play in some shape or form.
@The Viking: but those that wanted it done a different way still went along with it. How many priests spoke out? Look at the pope’s own actions, take the bishop Boyce appointment for example, he does not give one single shit.
@Sayitlikeitis: there was all sorts going on. But quite simply put the victims have never been apologized properly too, and the abusers locked up. That is disgraceful. Everyone had their part to play but the shame and fear came from the church as did the abuse. Stop trying to deflect.
@Sarah Bourke: He’s actually asking for forgiveness for the way the Church handled abuse victims,did he actually apologise for the abuse itself happening in the first place?
@Ben Jamen: no he never did. He’s asked for the victims to forgive his peadolfile ring but has never offered an apology.
@Sarah Bourke: you’re the one deflecting from questions that need to be answered too, it’s not only just the chruch involved incase you don’t know, there’s many intuitions involved!
@Sarah Bourke: someone make you judge jury and executioner?
@The Viking: there not in the past..u obviously don’t read the news
@Sayitlikeitis: are u suggesting child abusers are complicated ?
@Sarah Bourke: and colonising
@Sarah Bourke: probably afraid of the legal ramifications of an apology, therefore doesn’t gipit
@Sayitlikeitis: the cover up was global such was the reach and power of the Catholic Church
@The Viking: a lot of people have been conned by the church and are still being conned . This is not in the past it is here and now . The past cannot be let go until justice is served ! Please Get informed about the church and the extent of their crimes before you soften up to it http://www.bishopaccountability.com
The church will be gone in Ireland in another 20 years. The turnout at the mass shows how many practicing Catholics there are in the country 130,000 out of a population of 4000000 that’s under 4% of the population so the next time some keyboard warrior starts quoting the census figures quote them the figures that turned out today.
@Colm O’Leary: https://www.irishcatholic.com/young-irish-mass-attendance-still-remarkably-high-numbers-show/ …………. https://extra.ie/2018/06/04/news/irish-news/ireland-has-third-highest-rate-of-church-goers-in-western-europe ……… Do research beore spouting crap. Goodman. Catholic Ireland is forever whether you like it or not!
@Colm O’Leary: the second biggest event in Ireland ever nunbers wise. That figure?
@Donal: you really are deluded aren’t you! Catholic Ireland is GONE. live with it!
@Colm O’Leary: how many were Irish and when taking the population of Ireland you must consider the north too. This was an embarrassingly low turnout.
@Greg Kelly: at least 3 events on the 1979 visit had higher numbers
@Colm O’Leary: Your figures are way off.
@Leadóg: how are my figures way off? Explain it to me figure by figure!
@Colm O’Leary: more people showed up to welcome the Ireland team back from the world cup in 1990, in fact it was about four times more people.
@Donal:
The Catholic church is a secret cult. Based on money grabbing.
It has no more relevance in this world than dinosaur bones dug up in New Mexico.
If there really was a man named Jesus in the vast past then he would turn up to box the clergy into a pulp.
Not in my name. Sayeth he.
I’m an atheist since aged 10. I passed by a Magdalen laundry every day going home from primary school and even then I knew they were prisoners. Appalling treatment of women and mothers
Wake up will ye. There will be no peace on this earth till men stop trying to dominate every part of this planet. Lose your misogynistic, warlike and aggressive behaviours. Look at the way you treat your mother. Sister. Wife. Daughter. We are all equal but men can’t accept that fact of life.
@Dave O Keeffe: Todays event, was an estimated 10% turnout on what it was 39 years ago, PLUS you have to allow for the fact that Irelands population has grown, with a lot of the influx being Catholic people,
The numbers today are stark,
The Church in Ireland as we knew it is gone,
just look at the figures in the trainee priests colleges
It’s quite pathetic of you all quoting statistics, percentages and shouting at each other from behind keyboards on a comments section, been going on for days. It’s an embarrassment actually. A lot of people went to the mass and croker and enjoyed themselves, a lot didn’t go and also enjoyed their lives that day. That this weekend is over is the biggest relief to the rest of us who really don’t mind what people do or what they do or don’t believe in.
@Colm O’Leary: It doesn’t work like that. There are many who could not make the Mass today. You’re implying no one else in the country is a Catholic just because they weren’t there today – this is a nonsense argument.
@Donal: nothing has never been for ever from mountains to men.. And naturally churches which are man made!
@Anto Curran: Psst you’re doing it too.
@Greg Kelly: way short of the 1000k that went the last time. Also, it was free
@Donal: Catholic Ireland is dying and you know it
@Anto Curran: sure, sit on the fence, ignore abuse, there’s a grand lad
@Paul Fahey: I’d love to see statistics and where attendees originated from. How many were from religious orders dressed in civilian attire, indistinguishable from the ordinary joe, how many were foreign, how many from the north , south etc
@Anto Curran: well Anto you just keep siting on that ineffectual fence and Live in ignorance
I’m a little confused by all this.
Ultimately who does the failure to protect children etc. lie with, the church or the state?
For me it’s the state. Yes the church carried out the horrendous evil but this all went on with the state brushing it under the carpet.
@Rob: both. They worked together. The state afraid to stand up and the church unable or unwilling to recognise their wrong doings. As vile as each other in this situation.
@Rob: the British left and the vacuum was filled by the church with the approval of the state, the church called the shots and the state jumped, thankfully it is in the of changing.
@Rob: but it was the church that gave them the framework. It was the church that told them that such girls would bring about the moral destruction of the young men of Ireland. It was the church that treated the laundries as their personal slush fund so I think the blame lies with the Catholic Church. But the government bears a good portion of the blame too.
@Colm O’Leary: Does the power currently exist in this country to bring the perpetrators to justice?
@Rob: only if the church hands over the complaints
@Dave O Keeffe: shouldn’t the complaints go to the police?????
@Sarah Bourke: Sarah, the church used their own canon law to prevent the State from acting. That is one of the main issues in this.
@Anto Curran: who do you think I’m saying they should hand them over to?
Not a massive fan of the church(get to mass about once a month) and I agree with a lot of the anger towards the church but I’d love to know how many people on this site that are putting up vile remarks about the church have or will in the future be showing off loads of photos of confirmations and communions on social media and delighted to be shown them off
@Shaun Gallagher: not me. I’ve posted my views tonight as an atheist.
@Shaun Gallagher: you seem to have difficulty separating the actions of the hierarchy from the actions of the faithful. I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with Catholics. If it works for them then more power to them and with that in mind if a relative or a friend asked me to attend such an event I would. I go to mass twice a year, both occasions for the sake of my father. My issue is the hierarchy and those that committed the abuse. Those in power in the church have hidden this and moved priests around and they continue to do so.
@Shaun Gallagher: Care to explain what you actually believe in, so? Genuine question. I’m of the opinion, backed by years of personal anecdotal inquiry, that the majority of people self identifying as Catholic have very little actual knowledge of their religion.
@Dave O Keeffe: Fair point Dave
@Martin Meyler: honestly Martin I don’t know what to believe in it but I do believe there has to be something good to have faith
Fran can say whatever he likes, internally it is church policy to protect itself instead of the children in its charge.
@The Risen: But ultimately is it’s not the states responsibility to bring the perpetrators to justice? Should all the anger not be directed at the government etc.
It kinda confused me that Leo came out with all this nonsense that Ireland will not longer bla bla bla buy is it not that the power exists to make all these perverts to be accountable for their crimes but the state is not willing to exercise it.
Is this not the real issue??
@Rob: they are both in the wrong, but it began with the church.
@Rob: they are both real issues and equally reprehensible real issues.
@Sarah Bourke: Bit it didn’t really
@Rob: the church used their power to abuse, those priests and nuns and clergy members were the ones who raped, abused and disposed of our country’s innocent. The state coward in fear like they usually do. The church abused their position through fear tactics. Dirty vile parasites.
@Rob: it was the church that raped children, threw childrens bodies into septic tanks, who stole children from their mothers and sold them to the highest bidder. It was the church who put women into homes and treated them as slaves. The church then covered it up and the state turned a blind eye.
@Sarah Bourke: They were both in it from the start, the state handed over its children to these institutions to care for them and played a major part in the imprisoning of children to the care of the religious. Many of the children ended up in these place through the court both the state and church was hand in glove. Blame must also be shared by the community as most people knew what was going on in these place and stood by and did nada, also the teachers in schools knew as did the police and nobody would listen to the poor children. They were considered worse than the dirt on the ground, and unfortunately it continues today with the abuse of our citizens in our Hospitals on trolleys, one scandal after another and in our assisted living facilities around the country and until some good person blows the whistle nothing is ever done to protect the most vulnerable in society.
@Charliegrl80: there’s blame on everyone who had any part in it, don’t get me wrong. But those predicts and nuns and clergy were the ones who raped and abused. The church are the foundation at fault. Justice needs to be served.
@Sarah Bourke: And what about the people that worked in these places do they also get away scot free with abuse or is it just the religious ones that should be punished? Many a child was also sent out to work on farms and in other places only to be abused by them too. As I seen many a person abused by lay people in the place where I happened to be. Don’t get me wrong I am in no way making excuses for anyone most especially the religious but the abuse was right across the board.
@Charliegrl80: Thankyou. That is exactly what I was thinking and I am glad someone wrote it down for me.
@Charliegrl80: 100% correct. The church, who are be no means innocent, have been blamed on all of it, conveniently forgetting that it was a massive issue across multiple sections of society.
@Charliegrl80: id say if you even questioned the abuse or mentioned it, you’d find your self in very hot water! What part of the bible did they say abuse children again?
@The Risen: what you described in the OP is the modus operandi of all major institutions, states and corporations, your beloved SF is no different, isn’t that right?
@Anto Curran: do you research kiddo before you go diluting the deeds of the church ! http://www.bishopaccountability.org
This pope is playing to the unquestioning faithful. Thankfully most of us see through the masquerade
@Beabad Bishop: for every Ivan Payne there was a Linus Ryan who oversaw 3 million Irish people view the relics of St Therese
Can’t call all the clergy bad eggs despite not believing in what they represent .
@Beabad Bishop: fair play to ya, who’s your god budda? What does he say about death again, oh ye nothing
No their not all bad eggs but they feed the delusion and help sell the lie . They are the poster girls and boys of the Catholic Church…but really are you serious about relics ? They are a deception and a con an attempt to reinforce a myth. Have you heard of the Holy prepuces that was a revered relic too . I think there was about six of them knocking around Europe at one time . I really feel sorry for people that believe in these deceptions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Prepuce
@Lazz Tonge: Beabad has no god , God’s were invented by humans to control and manipulate other humans.
@Beabad Bishop: I don’t believe in any of it but it is clear many do and will also tell you that their pp isn’t a bad egg
Canon law goes against our state laws. They continue to flout our laws, and refuse to report child abuse to the gardai. We should not tolerate this.
@Philo: Apologies but that doesn’t make sense. Can anyone explain it better
@Rob: Rob, aren’t you doing what you believe the state did ?? Saying that the church did bad but the blame should lie with the state? You surely are not oblivious to the abuse and torture handed down by that institution? They are both in the wrong. But the church has always been a manipulative parasite on our society, feeding off the weak and working for their own gain.
@Rob: makes sense to me
@Rob: the church still places canon law above our state laws. Organisation’s are obligated to report child abuse to Tulsa, under children’s first legislation. The church still teaches priests to report it infernally to Superior’s. Read this.
http://www.thejournal.ie/vatican-not-legally-competent-child-abuse-1206153-Dec2013/
@Philo: Canon Law = Catholic Sharia
@Sarah Bourke: indeed Sarah the Catholic Church are quite adept at manipulation they have perfected it over a thousand years !
@Philo: and yet Francis thinks the church can set an example on child protection. Thie guy is deluded
Can offer an example to society? No thanks, it’s a terrible example!
@Clare McAfee: No point in him asking the crowd at the Phoenix Park for forgiveness, these people don’t care what the Catholic Church do, even raping and beating infants isn’t abhorrent enough for them to stop worshopping the cult and its leaders.
@Gaius Gracchus: that is a horrible thing to say, I’m sure you don’t believe it and only said it for a reaction
@eric nelligan: I would agree with him. The Pope has harboured known paedophiles. These people should have been reported to the police and charged like any other citizen. Instead, kept quiet and moved on to the next town to reoffend. Why is that OK with anybody? Rolling out the red carpet… it’s sickening. Not interested in apologies, interested in arrests and perpetrators, and those that enabled them, put in prison to rot.
@Gaius Gracchus: indeed he’s just pandering to the crowd who put their blind belief before injustice and suffering
He should have directed them to hand over all names of perpetrators to the gda,and varadkar would unseal abuse files fg and labour sealed when in government 2011-16,if either were sincere in their speeches.
@@mdmak33: OK but are all these names not already known and the state is refusing to do anything about it. Why is the question. Are clerics outside the law of this land?
all down to celibacy … it’s an unnatural state and only used by the Catholic Church to prevent spouses inheriting or having to be looked after in life and after the demise of the husband, priest, and of course the children of the union. That would complicate things for the Church, and , of course cost money. I am convinced that if clergy were allowed to have normal sexual relations they would not abuse any more than the small percentage of abusers in secular life.
@Terry Cahill: Good point. And I honestly believe if men and women were not forced to hide their sexuality by entering the guise of the church then a lot of it would not have happened either.
@Rob: paedophile will will be drawn to any position that will give them access to potential victims, whether its the clergy, teaching, sports coach, scout leader, aid worker etc… Unfortunately it taints the vast amounts of people who carry out those sort of vocations for the right reasons.
The Fact is that crimes have & are being committed as defined by the laws of the state. No organisation whoever they are should be permitted to break the law of the state with impunity. The state must take the lead in investigating/assembling evidence and prosecuting. All else is a prevarication & a smoke screen. Focus on the victims & provide them with justice. Anything else is a betrayal of the injured & shame will fall on the state. In short ACTION not WORDS.
@Mike Fitzgerald: The religious are protected by the Irish State from prosecution and victims will never be given proper justice.
http://theenchantingvalley.ning.com/forum/topics/a-background-to-the-indemnity
@Charliegrl80: Yes. Sadly you are spot on. Without the rule of law applied to all then society will deteriorate into anarchy or the people become timid slaves. Not a unique situation to the Irish State i’m afraid. Oh well I need to get back to the soap operas & my video games & social media. NOT.
Step 1: report to Gardaí
@Michele Savage: Steps for CSA prosecution:
1. Victim knows it was abuse
2. Victim can communicate
3. Victim discloses
4. Victim is believed
5. Police notified
6. Sufficient evidence
7. Case accepted
8. Perpetrator doesn’t plead to lesser offence
9. Conviction, no appeal
84% don’t get to step 3
(I stole this from a tweet i read today by Michael Salter)
the church used their power to abuse, those priests and nuns and clergy members were the ones who raped, abused and disposed of our country’s innocent. The state coward in fear like they usually do. The church abused their position through fear tactics. Dirty vile parasites.
@Sarah Bourke: the state didn’t cower. The state never has much appetite for those on the margins of society so simply put the blinkers on.
There were more people at Gareth Brooks gigs I’d say.
If there has to be religion clergy should marry. There should be female clergy. The denial and repression of human sexuality as if it were sinful is proof of the RCC church’s fear of women.
Extreme Islam also fears women. Both medieval and out of date and pure evil.
@Kevin Slater: Like no married man has abused his children ever?
Safe home
Society have moved on, the church are still living in thr past.
It is no use asking for gods forgiveness, what happened in his church that he is the head off by his own people not alone here but also in other parts of the world, talk is cheap you cannot sweep all this corruption under the carpet if it was just a ordionary person it wouldnot be excepted by the state for the catholic church to survive in this country they will have to change there hold outlook i am a practicing christian
have your say