If you've not paid the property tax, Revenue is sending you this letter

FF or SF so it looks like FF will be back.

@Paddy
Not to make the same mistakes by voting, FF / Fg / Labour.

what are our options in the next elections ? – Have a look at Direct Democracy Ireland (DDI) for starters.

thanks john my reply to you was takin down .. there was no bad language …

I am seriously considering voting for SF or ddi, as if we vote ff/fg/labour we will be screwed they are all the same anyway which is not a democracy when everybody agree’s on the same thing on the major topics..
Even if we do get a new party inn or a direct democracy approach to governing our beautiful island we will still not be completely democratic as we will still take our orders from the real masters of europe which is the dictatorship we call the european commission currently run by Owl Borosso who was appointed not elected to the most powerful position in europe..

so SF or ddi as they have said will tell the ecb/imf/troika/oil companies to feck off … if they promise that … they have my vote

@Paddy, In 1972 or was it 1973 I voted NO to joining the then EEC. We were told that it was only a travel & trades union. Having changed to EC and then EU we now have the dictatorship you mention (I always vote NO to anything related to this corrupt union). I do not feel European, I have nothing against any other nationality, I have several European friends, but I am proud to be Irish and will not accept any unelected dictator telling me what to do or think. I was fortunate that I did not fall for the so-called “Celtic Tiger”. All the loans & offers from the banks went in the green recycle bin. I did not “live above my means” and won’t accept responsibility for something I did not do.

Options for government in this country is limited all liers incompetent politicians fear for us and country

The government have now made this a workplace issue so the Unions should be involved at this point. I wonder will the Revenue compensate the employers for any industrial action that results from deducting this bondholder tax from peoples wages?

Sli Nios Fearr is another good option.

@john .. I agree. i dont think anybody who isn’t paid by the eu does feel european, but how long can they keep this game up for ? All across europe there is massive protesting going on.. i just hope England see the light and we will follow and leave after.. if IRELAND,Greece, italy and spain didn have corrupt governments in power and were offered a referendum today im sure they would be out and if they weren’t the vote was rigged or scare tactics like we’d be a third world country if we did some shite like that..

at the moment we aint even getting offered a referendum because our govt is so corrupt and are paid to well on this gravy train.

WE SAID NO TO LISBON IN A VOTE AND THEN THEY SAID AH SURE WHAT DOES THE ELECTORATE KNOW ANYWAY AND BROUGHT THE TREATY IN ANYWAY… PACK OF DICTATORS IN THE EU AND SHAME ON THE IRISH MEPS FOR BEING SO PRO EUROPE YOU KNOW WHO YA ARE GAY.MITCHELL and the rest not worth mentioning as they do nothing .

listen to this turn coat in the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHTp8_XJuhE

bringing up what happened years ago to cover her tracks fact is b we said no and they made it a yes and you never done your job you where trusted to do and defended us that is not democracy resign ya turn coat

vote for the u r i s e party. . . urban rural islands says enough!!!

@PADDY:

“what are our options in the next elections ?”

Have a look at Direct Democracy Ireland (DDI) for starters. http://directdemocracyireland.ie/ They are definitely worth a look in my opinion.

Not the paper, the Its the story.

This is an article from a shit tabloid about the bildeberg meeting in UK… you probably want to make a like with the g8 conference that will take place in… NI…. not in Eire.

Quiet time now,
dul a chodladh.

John they are just going to take the money you owe out of your pay slip. No avoiding it

What do you think we should do John?

They’ll take it one way or another. Your options are a) pay it now and it’s your own business or b) have it taken out of your paycheck and your employer becoming aware you avoid taxes.

End result is the same for revenue, not for you.

You’re sitting behind your computer calling people cowards on the Internet and say we’re hiding. Ironic or hypocritical? Not paying isn’t going to change anything. Why don’t you run for the Dail if your so brave?

Eh, Amy – this is a website, so of course he’s sitting behind his computer. So are you. Your point is stupid.

What do I think ye should do…? Ah not pay….. If everyone stuck together instead of talking about it. Way to miss the point. Im not even gonna waste my time on this. If you need it explained to you , what’s the point. Cowards. Fact. Stand up for nothing . Next year will bring more taxes … Why… Why not. Fools will complain then pay it anyway. People who paid this are as bad as any bank imo

@sean gets trophy for point of the day! Bboooooommmmmmm

Sean my point is I’m not abusing people and calling them cowards and accusing them of hiding. Keep up lad!

This John Collins seems to be a twitter account only set up to post on thejournal. Probably has been banned already for being a knob and now has returned.

Invigorating point. Now please tell me how I can subscribe to your newsletter.

Amy …point proven u clown . If all of you didn’t pay like thousands of people including myself…. Then guess what…. They would have no choice buy to scrap the tax…..u understand ?

Sorry John its just not how the tax system works. You can’t pick and choose which taxes you want to be kept or scrapped. Would you like to give me an example of how people refusing to pay got a tax revoked?

Tone it down john. Its a sunny morning…

Wrong Amy. Forget about it… Can’t dumb it down anymore for you. Have a nice day:-)

Sean, its a dormant twitter account because I have no interest in twitter, or Facebook, but you need to have one for the other to comment here. There’s nothing cowardly about that buddy! Take it up with the journal if you have issue with it. Now have you anything to actually add to the conversation or just felt like acting the maggot?

Acting the maggot it is so! Ha

lol eh Amy its a website …haha thats class

The good old fightin Irish.
All the people on here slagging those who didn’t pay, Jesus get a grip all your doin is being part of the game that’s being played.
Stand together don’t register, let them take it from your wages. Why would anyone in their right mind willing sign up to give their money away to rich banks.
Baaaaaaaaaa Baaaaaaaaa

I paid and I am not a coward. If you object to the tax fair enough but you don’t get to decide for me whether I pay or not and you don’t get the right to call me a coward whatever your views.

Only have twitter account for this u stalker……… Funny how thats you focus and not the issue at hand clown

If he has a problem with red thumbs then maybe he shouldn’t post. Take the feedback or don’t post at all.

John Collins,did other members of your family pay the tax? And if so,did you tell them to their face they are cowards? Or is it only strangers who are cowards? You’re some spoofer,oh,and well done on paying more than the cowards,the government needs people like you to boost their coffers

Amazing how all those against the tax are resorting to personal attacks. Interesting debate.

Join http://www.attackthetax.com even if you have paid, €2 taking a legal rout to try stop this!

Charlie
Only one person has restored to insults yet you deem it necessary to tarnish all non payers the same. Hypocrisy much.?

Yes I did call them cowards. Cowards u all are

John Collins is really Yoda

Dear taoiseach

“It is immoral to tax a persons home”haha what a lying so an so ya are … if i got elected first thing i would do would build a new spectating wing onto mount joy with free admission for the public to see yourself in there bertie, noonan the lot of ya’s .

Isn’t it a lovely day for a troll.

Trolling in the sun Mary ;)

Be a good boy John… Im sur you ve paid already

he’s right though, imagine if only 300k had paid it we wouldn’t see government being as brazen as they are now with those kind of people saying no. instead what we have are 1,500,000 people who used their fear or complete apathy to go ahead and pay it and we still have no brave people in this country willing to resist anything!! shocking stuff out of ye to be honest

Coward

Yes. water tax defeated in 1996 by mass non payment campaign.

What does Attack The Tax done except sell stickers and take donations.

Despite the “attack”, the tax has been very successfully implemented.

Will “attack the tax” refund their supporters/customers, given that what they were paying for hasn’t been effective?

And where exactly did all the money end up? Administration costs?

Water tax was not defeated in the nineties. Businesses must pay water rates, effectively subsidizing private users and pushing business costs up. Hardly a victory.

Exactly

@ Sean – It doesn’t All I was pointing out was that Markandalla’s post above is incorrect. Water charges/taxes/rates were not successfully defeated in 1997. The compromise was that business would be liable but not private households. So business were subsidizing private households. The actual figures paid were kept low, otherwise businesses wouldn’t have accepted it. But a business still pays more for water than a household, it’s an unequal division.

Fact is, the water supply we pay relatively little for is of terribly low quality.

That’s hardly a victory.

@MarkandAnna
I was one of those fools who paid the water charges in the 1990′s. Several of my friends & family didn’t. They were never pursued for this money and I have never received a REPAYMENT of my money. Therefore I am in credit to the tune of around IR£275. Do they REALLY think I will be that stupid again? Fools and their money are EASILY PARTED.

Well said!! Everyone should be sending Enda kenny a letter of protest and that he should start honouring the promises he made.

They’ll take it one way or the other, but you should have at least shown some solidarity with your fellow citizen and made it somewhat difficult. But no you didn’t, and now they’ve taken that inch, it won’t be long til the mile is reached and you’re handing €1k+ over for a property youve already paid thousands in tax. You rolling over at ease was also very constructive.

What are they doing …? Posting out fire-lighters in this weather …!

I just know one person in work out of 28 that payed in and none of my 8 brother & sisters payed it

The Revenue with the assistance of a docile media have consistently manipulated the figures to create a perception of greater compliance.
The figure of 1.6 million properties was repeated endlessly for the past few months until the last day of registration when the true total of 1.9 million eligible properties suddenly emerged. The media then accepted this new total without comment or question.

Anecdotal. The official tally shows over 80% compliance. If you believe that this is false, then the obligation is on you to prove that it is false. Saying what a friend/colleague/family member did/said does not disprove the official tally.

In other words, there’s absolutely no way of prove that you talking outta yer hole or not. Not a strong position to argue fact.

The ‘official tally’ is not from an independent source. The Revenue has a vested interest in that compliance rate appearing to be as high as possible. You appear to have chosen to accept the Revenue’s figures as accurate. That is your right. Pete has chosen not to accept the figures as gospel, which is also his right and he has no ‘obligation’ to disprove the numbers from a vested interest.

So, show an verifiable alternative source for figures showing the level of compliance.

Unless you do that, all you can put forward is a objective opinion. Saying “the official figures are wrong” without objective evidence is just saying “I believe/hope/want the official figures to be wrong.

And that has no worth at all in trying to eatablish something as fact.

Unless you have verifiable figures from a respected source, you simply don’t know if the official figures are accurate or not. You just don’t

BTW, what exactly has happened to all the money taken by ATT? Donations and sticker purchases. Will the money be refunded as the campaign has failed? Or has it all been allocated to “administrative costs”?

It could well have been a nice little earner.

That’s exactly the point. In the absence of figures from a credible source, Pete’s opinion on the compliance levels is as valid as yours and yet you sneered at his view and demanded that he prove his claim.
I’ve no idea how the ATT campaign accounts for the revenue collected as I’m not involved with the organization.

@ COT – No, this is not a case of two people having different opinions. Both yourself and P have accused the Revenue in releasing false figures, but neither of you have been able to back this up with any evidence whatsoever. I said that there was over 80% with the new tax, this is back up with figures from the Revenue. My position can be backed up with freely available information from an official source, yourself and P have nothing but hearsay.

Which was the point of me mentioning what ATT have done with their money. I implied an accusation that the protest group could be simply a means of fleecing gullible people, but I have absolutely no evidence to prove this. I do not have a copy of their accounts. So there is no evidence.

Just because you want something to be true doesn’t make it so. Shouting louder doesn’t make opinions into facts.

I’m a bit disappointed really. I’d hoped that someone would be smart enough to twig that what I was doing to the ATT is exactly what you and P are doing to the Revenue, and would quite rightly pull me up on it.

Sadly, this didn’t happen. The bullsh**er filter is extremely lax on this site.

But the question remains, what are the anti-tax groups going to do now when the official count is that over 80% have complied, and there is no objective and quantifiable evidence to show tht the official figures are not correct?

http://www.thejournal.ie/property-tax-enforcement-5-per-cent-929646-May2013/

I say over 80% have complied. That means less that 20% have not.

The article states that 5% have not.

That means I’ allowing for almost 15% as a margin of error in the Revenue’s figures. So I’m being far more conservative in my estimation Han the Revenue themselves.

What data are you basing your claims on?

Stop digging Nikolas. It’s a little embarassing.

I’d be basing my information on a friend of mine working on the helpline. The Saturday before the deadline less than 50% had filed returns correctly, many more had returned the forms but they had F**k off, or words to that effect on them.

@ Declan – that’s just more of the same. “My friend said” anecdotal and unverifiable. Your friend could say a lot of things, you friend could say the moon is made of cheese. If you friend:

1. Stood up and said this AND PUT HIS REAL NAME to it,

2. Proved that he does work in the Revenue and did see the incoming forms, and

3. Could give numbers that tallied with the Revenues figures in certain places ( the revenue would have no need to lie about all the data, only that which would make them look bad ),

Then what you are saying would have value. As it is, “your friend” is simply a sock.

Firstly never said my friend worked for revenue, said he worked in the helpline which I am sure someone of your vast knowledge knows was outsourced. Secondly after the hassle there already was in that company do you honestly think anyone is going to come out as a whistleblower? Thirdly my friend is a sock? How f**king old are you?

You don’t just send the form back, you have to send a bunch of details back about your landlord! Not my job to be seeking information on someone that should be protected by data protection laws!

Dec you don’t have a job, consider the few minutes spent filling up the forum a job. As payment you get your rent paid.

“You’d think the tax office would have some way of checking with the social welfare office”,

I’m sure data protection would disallow that. Maybe you’d like everyone who works for any government department to access your file at will for any reason, even curiosity?

The systems are already linked up…. The point is that they can check, theyre just too backwards to be bothered. Why should i be? I’ve paid my tax to cover me being out of work for a couple of months, My family may be struggling but we’re trying to get back to work. All the do gooders above seem to forget that all these taxes that FG/Labour/FF have imposed go unopposed then they’ll just keep taking! If youre fortunate to own a house and have a job and are obliged and wiling to pay the tax then go ahead. If you stuck renting, unemployed and not obliged to pay the tax then you shouldnt be getting letters in the post at all! People like myself out there are trying to get themselves back to work, to improve the lives of their families under very difficult circumstances, we dont need added pressure in the form of threatening letters from the tax office that should be going to someone else!

Added pressure in the form of threatening letters!!

Get a grip, there is no pressure just fill it up and send it back. No pressure, issue resolved.

Ah, sure it’s a tough life having to send back a letter. First world problem indeed.

Brian, your roll over attitude is exactly why this country is fcuked! I’d love to fill the form out and ram it up your jaxie! Now Sit, good boy!

Lostintallaght, where did I say I didn’t or wouldn’t be sending it back? Roll over the boy, good lad… Have a treat!

Declan, where did I say that you would or wouldn’t? Now get back into the sun to fry the brain a little more.

Ah sure why not… Just cleaned the BBQ, a few Nice cold ones, shorts and TShirt on and not a FCUK will be given! Working for the man gets you NO Tan! Sit!!!!

Dec your talking about yourself, I’m employed and adding to the country while you leech off it.

I reckon with your attitude you’ll be on the scratcher for a while, hope you don’t have kids, you are a poor role model. And if they get a job in McDonalds they will be more successful than you, your the one who can shove it where the sun doesn’t shine.

Was talking to a Polish lad that sits opposite me in work just now. Him and his wife both got letters to the apartment in their names even though they rent. The conversation went something like this:

Me: So what did you do when you got the letters.
Him: We put them both in an envelope and sent them back to the revenue.
Me: Did you have to send them loads of information about the landlord?
Him: Just the PPS number but I didn’t have it so I wrote on the documents that I didn’t have it. What could I do?
Me: Was it stressful?
Him: What? [Laughs]

Seems Polish people know how to handle our system better than the over-sensitive Irish lads we produce.

HaHa, yeah, sure… I worked with a guy who pretended he didnt live with his missus and kids so she Could get lone parents and rent allowance, he sits beside a polish guy too! haha, yeah right! Don’t forget to roll on your back to get your fat belly rubbed by the man! ;)

“I worked with a guy who pretended he didnt live with his missus and kids so she Could get lone parents and rent allowance”

I hope you reported the cheating sponger.

I would but the poor fcuker is from tallaght! That must be tough enough without been ratted on!

Not sure whether it’s the methadone or sun that’s boiling your brain. Either way, you’ll always be one of life’s losers with your attitude.

@Damocles – Doubt this ever happened, Dec’s living in a dream world, his reality has been poisoned by cheap beer and too much sunshine. Sure he seems to think everyone on this thread is a dog for gods sake!

Oh, I can assure you that this is true… why would you doubt it? The fact is I’m agreeing with you that the polish seem to have more respect for the system than some homegrown Irish do! Evidently…! I could name that person and they’d be up shits creek! But that would mean messing with someones way of life, whether I agree with it or not! Its up to the authorities to be on top of their game as they should have been before they implemented this unfair and unjust tax on homeowners!

@Leonard Washington – It must have been you that filled in the pothole on the entrance to my estate while I was at work yesterday. Cheers.

socks