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Money Diaries A student and retail worker earning €14K and living in Dublin

This week, our reader is getting ready to return to college while earning some extra money baking for friends and family.

WELCOME TO HOW I Spend My Money, a series on The Journal that looks at how people in Ireland really handle their finances.

We’re asking readers to keep a record of how much they earn, what they save if anything, and what they’re spending their money on over the course of one week.

Are you a spender, a saver or a splurger? We’re looking for readers who will keep a money diary for a week. If you’re interested send a mail to money@thejournal.ie. We would love to hear from you.

Each money diary is submitted by readers just like you. When reading and commenting, bear in mind that their situation will not be relatable for everyone, it is simply an account of a week in their shoes, so let’s be kind.

Last time around, we heard from a finance analyst on 60K outside Dublin. This week, a student and retail worker earning €14K and living in Dublin. 

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I am a 24-year-old student working part-time in retail and living at home with my mam, who’s a special needs assistant in a primary school. I am in my third year of a baking/business course and I’m trying my best to save with the hopes of someday starting my own business. I try to save at least €50 per week (I get paid weekly), but it can be more or less than that depending on whether I have extra expenses or if I earn extra money from working or baking.

I decided to go back to college two years ago after working in retail for a few years while I figured out what I wanted to do with myself. I previously did one year of a course in social care straight after doing my Leaving Cert, and while I did enjoy the course, I was struggling big time with my mental health at the time, and I didn’t feel like that sort of a job was an option for me. One of the things that helped my mental health was picking up a hobby (baking), which I ended up loving and I decided to look into courses on it.

Being a baking student, I sometimes earn extra money by baking for family or family friends and it’s good practice for me when I’m not in college. My mam buys most of the groceries, so most of the grocery money I spend is on baking ingredients as I like to practice and try out new recipes whenever I can. It’s tough still living at home at this age, but unfortunately, I have no other choice at the moment.

Occupation: Student/Retail worker
Age: 24
Location: Dublin
Salary: Around €14K
Monthly pay (net): Around €1,000

Monthly expenses

Transport: €30 (this will increase once college starts again)
Rent: €200 (I give extra whenever I can)
Household bills: Included in rent
Phone bill: €20
Health insurance: €0
Groceries: Around €150
Subscriptions: Netflix: €11.99, Disney+: €6.99, Spotify: €9.99, iCloud storage: €2.99

***

Monday

8.00 am: I wake up early (not on purpose) and have tea and toast for breakfast. I’m off work until Thursday, so I don’t have much to do today. I tidy up a bit after breakfast then chill and watch TV for a while.

12.00 pm: I put on the immersion to let the water heat up while I make a batch of brownies. This week, my sister’s boyfriend needed cheesecakes and brownies for an event. He rings me the day before he needs them and usually picks them up the next day. He is paying me €20 per tray of brownies and €20 per cheesecake. He needs one of each for tomorrow.

1.00 pm: While the brownies are in the oven, I quickly take a shower, knock the immersion off and get ready for the day after my lazy morning.

2.30 pm: I head to the shop as I don’t have enough ingredients for the cheesecake. I usually go to Aldi as it’s much cheaper, but they don’t have the chocolate I need, so I head to Super Valu instead. (€25.54)

3.30 pm: Once I get home, I put my apron and my comfy slippers on, make myself a cup of tea and make the cheesecake – Galaxy chocolate flavour today.

4.30 pm: Once the cake is finished, I clean the kitchen and start to make dinner for my mam and I, as we’re both starving.

5.00 pm: We sit down to eat dinner and watch a few episodes of Grey’s Anatomy. 

7.00 pm: I head upstairs to try to organise my desk area before college starts in a few weeks. Afterwards, I just relax for the rest of the evening by playing some Animal Crossing and head to bed early. 

Today’s total: €25.54

Tuesday

8.00 am: I wake up and have tea and toast for breakfast again.

9.30 am: When breakfast is finished, I get ready for the day. I’m going shopping with my friend this afternoon. We decide to go to Dundrum for something different as we don’t normally go all the way out there. 

12.00 pm: We arrive in Dundrum. Before we do any shopping, we both sit down outside for a coffee and a chat first. I get a tea (€2.70) and a box of mini doughnuts from Krispie Kreme for later (€4.95). 

12.30 pm: We begin our shopping spree (God love my wallet). I don’t think too much about what I’m spending as I don’t get out much these days besides work and some walks. I pick up a few random bits throughout the day like a birthday card, some new clothes for going back to college and even a new whisk! This all comes to €90.40.

4.00 pm: At this point, we both definitely need another break, so we head down to Five Guys. I just get chips and a Diet Coke (€9.10). Some very expensive chips! It was a big portion though. 

5.00 pm: After our meal, we head back in to look in the few shops we missed before heading for home. 

7.00 pm: I have some toast as I’m a little bit hungry since earlier on. 

8:00 pm: I sit down to watch some more Grey’s Anatomy with my mam. I don’t do much more for the rest of the evening and no more money was spent (thankfully!)

Today’s total: €107.15

Wednesday

7.00 am: My alarm wakes me up, but I lay in bed for 15 more minutes because I can’t bring myself to get up yet. Once I finally get up, I shower, get dressed and get ready for the day.

8.05 am: I leave the house and walk to the bus stop to get the bus to Drogheda. I have an appointment with the orthodontist to get my braces tightened. The appointments are supposed to be every six weeks or so, but they’ve been more spread out due to Covid. I pick up a bottle of water (€1.85) in the garage and top up my Leap card (€15.00) before the bus arrives. 

9.45 am: I get off the bus and have a ramble around Drogheda town center as my appointment is not for another while (I don’t spend any money though!)

10.15 am: Once it’s time for my appointment, I head over, get my braces tightened and pay off the next installment before heading back for the bus home. (€200.00)

12.30 pm: I get off the bus and head straight to Tesco to get myself some lunch. I missed breakfast and at this point, I’m starving. I pick up soup, some rolls and a packet of cookies (€5.78) because it’s going to be hard to chew anything solid for the next probably 48 hours!

1.00 pm: I eat my lunch and just relax for a little while and watch TV.

2.30 pm: By this stage, my face does not feel good as it’s my first time getting a thicker bar on my teeth (if you have or have ever had braces, you’ll know my pain). I take a Nurofen and end up dozing off. 

4.00 pm: I wake up from my nap and my face doesn’t feel like it’s been hit by a truck anymore – thank you, Nurofen! (Other brands of painkillers are available) I watch some more TV for a while.

5.30 pm: My mam orders us a Chinese because neither of us feels like cooking. I get boiled rice, chips and curry sauce. It was hard to chew the chips, but I soldiered
through!

7.00 pm: I FaceTime my friends for a little while and then watch some more TV.

10.30 pm: Once I head up to bed, I fall asleep pretty much instantly. I’m really tired for some reason, even after my nap.

Today’s total: €222.63

Thursday

9.00 am: I wake up and get out of bed. It’s the best day of the week – payday! Thank God, because it’s been an expensive week so far. After making some baked oats and a cup of tea for breakfast, I put some money into my savings straight away and give €50.00 to my mam off the rent.

11.00 am: I get dressed, make my bed and clean up around the house. My dad is dropping over to visit this afternoon.

12.30 pm: My dad comes over and I make some soup for lunch – I still can’t really chew anything after having my braces tightened yesterday. After we eat, I make us a cuppa and we sit down for a catch-up.

2.30 pm: We decide to go on a walk around the park as I haven’t been out of the house all day.

4.30 pm: After saying goodbye to my dad, I get home and make pasta for everyone; we are babysitting my little cousin, so we all watch Wreck It Ralph together after dinner.

7.00 pm: I get a call from my sister’s boyfriend for a cheesecake for tomorrow, so I head to Aldi to pick up some ingredients I needed. (€9.54)

8.00 pm: I make the cheesecake, clean up the kitchen and then head to bed.

Today’s total: €59.54

Friday

9.00 am: I wake up, have breakfast and scroll through my phone for a little while.

11.00 am: I ring my sister’s boyfriend to see does he need any more cheesecakes or brownies for the weekend since I have some free time before work starts. I’m only doing a 4-8 shift today. He asks for two of each, so I start with the brownies (they take an hour in the oven) and then while those are baking, I make the cheesecakes.

12.00 pm: While the brownies are in the oven, I put on the immersion so I can have a shower before work.

1.30 pm: I finish off the cheesecakes as the brownies cool down a bit in their tins. I clean down the kitchen and head upstairs to have a shower and get ready for work. 

2.30 pm: Back in the kitchen, I remove the brownies from the tins, cut them up evenly, box them up and then clean the kitchen again.

3.15 pm: There isn’t much to eat at home, so I decide to leave early for work and grab lunch from Burger King (€6.65) before I start work and eat it in the canteen.

6.00pm: I have a little bit of paperwork to do. The very nice lady that I work with makes me a cup of tea and gives me a chocolate bar. The shop isn’t busy, and the paperwork doesn’t take as long as I thought it would, so the evening seems to drag on. 

8.00 pm: I leave work and walk home. The place I work is only a 20-minute walk away, so it’s very handy to get to and from and doesn’t cost me any extra money. 

10.00 pm: I watch a bit of TV with my mam and then head to bed early, I have an early start tomorrow

Today’s total: €6.65

Saturday

7.00 am: The dreaded sound of my alarm wakes me up. I get up, have a shower, get dressed, have breakfast and make my lunch for later. 

8.10 am: I leave for work as I’m on an opening shift today. I open up and get the shop ready before 9 o’clock. 

11.00 am: I make myself a cup of tea and bring it out with me while I get on with getting through the delivery. 

1.30 pm: I have my lunch break (30 minutes). I brought a sandwich with me and I have it with a packet of crisps and more tea. I’m really bad for remembering to bring lunch with me to work so I don’t have to buy it, but recently I’ve been bringing in lunch more often.

3.00 pm: For some reason, everybody’s really tired at work today which makes the day feel much longer, but there’s lots of delivery to get through, which serves as a good distraction.

4.00 pm: Time for my 15-minute break. I make more tea (I have a problem) and eat the little packet of chocolate buttons I brought with me. Only two more hours to go!

6.00 pm: I walk home from work. My mam has the dinner made once I get in, which is great because I’m starving. We sit down to eat and watch a few episodes of Grey’s Anatomy afterwards.

9.00 pm: I don’t do much more for the evening and go to bed relatively early.

Today’s total: €0.00

Sunday

9.00 am: I wake up and get dressed for work. Sundays are a nice day to work where I am as it’s only an 11:30-6 shift and it’s usually pretty quiet and goes by quick enough.

11.10 am: I pack my lunch and leave for work.

1.00 pm: Work is actually very busy for a Sunday – just my luck. Everyone is getting last minute stuff for the kids going back to school, so I should’ve really expected it to be like this. I buy myself a bottle of water. (€1.40)

2.30 pm: I’m glad to see it’s time for my lunch break. I brought in my lunch again so I have that with a cuppa.

6.00 pm: I walk home from work. Some of my family are over when I get home, so I make pasta for dinner for everyone.

7.00 pm: We eat dinner and watch TV for a little while.

9.00 pm: I head upstairs and play Animal Crossing in bed for a while before going to sleep.

Today’s total: €1.40

Weekly subtotal: €422.91

***

What I learned –

  • I definitely spent a lot more than usual this week, so the total is quite shocking, but I know it’s not normally that bad. My braces appointment made it a lot higher, which is a price I’m willing to pay for straighter teeth and a better bite.
  • I definitely don’t think enough about what I’m spending and found myself looking back on my banking app at the end of the day when I was writing this and forgetting what I had spent money on.
  • I could be better at saving, but a lot of the money I make (especially for baking stuff) I put “back into the business” by buying cake equipment and supplies, like cake boxes, tools, or ingredients. One thing I’ve done this year that has definitely helped me in regard to the cake stuff is to buy more ingredients in bulk when I can off wholesale websites.
  • Another thing I’ve realised this week is that I eat far too much fast/junk food out of convenience and laziness, and I could definitely save more money if I cut down on some of that.
  • Going forward, I definitely want to be more aware of my spending and try to be better at saving.

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13 Comments
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    Mute Awkward Seal
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    Apr 28th 2016, 7:26 AM

    It’s well known that male intelligence makes up a broader bell curve than the female one but the average is the same. Simply put men have more geniuses and idiots whereas there are more women of average intelligence.

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    Mute Marg murphy
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:11 AM

    That’s exactly right. Boys tend to get higher grades in maths, always have. That’s why there will always be more boys attracted to STEM subjects. It’s nothing to do with sexism no matter how loud the feminists shout. It’s to do with how the male brain is wired. You also have more boy “slow learners” at the other end of the bell curve. More makes tend to be inventors, innovators, explorers, Nobel prize winners. There are women too obviously just not as many but that reflects their numbers on that side of the bell curve.

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    Mute The Girl
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    Apr 28th 2016, 10:13 AM

    What if I changed sex or gender along the way in living cert? Would it be male or female intelligence?

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    Mute Lydia Mulvey
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    Apr 28th 2016, 11:06 AM

    @Marg

    “It’s nothing to do with sexism no matter how loud the feminists shout. It’s to do with how the male brain is wired. ”

    There are subtle differences in how M/F brains are constructed, mostly to do with evolutionary development (hunting vs gathering and the skills inherent in each) but there is also a lot to do with how boys and girls engage in play from an early age and how they are perceived by the adults around them.

    From an early age, girls are routinely conditioned to believe that looks are more important than their physical/mental capabilities e.g. “Isn’t Lisa so pretty in her pink dress?” vs “Freddie climbed a tree all the way to the top and didn’t fall!” This drip drip drip of conditioning means that generally speaking, girls begin to believe that they are not as capable at climbing trees as boys are.

    There is also the inherent belief (like the one you display, Marg) that maths is a heavily-gendered subject and that only boys can understand it, leading girls to think that no matter what their interest or capability, there is something ‘wrong’ with the wiring in their brain and they cannot be as good at maths as boys are.

    We also have to remember that despite notable exceptions, girls were not allowed to study mathematics and the sciences at major colleges until comparatively recently which means that yes, men have been the leaders in research and discovery. Because generally, there were no women studying alongside them, using the resources available to them.

    It’s too complex a subject to go into here but suffice it to say that social conditioning plays a major part in why girls don’t choose STEM careers as much as boys and why boys are ridiculed if they select what are seen as inherently feminine careers such as nursing or childcare.

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    Mute Marg murphy
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    Apr 28th 2016, 1:14 PM

    @linda. I don’t believe that maths is a heavily gendered subject. But the subject suits the male brain better if that boy has an interest in it. Boys will zoom in on and be very committed to what grabs them,girls tend to be methodical and more disciplined in their approach. Boys tend to be very good at maths or very bad, girls straddle,the middle ground. The reason being girls will do as expected (we are of course generalising) boys will do what interests them. Girls can be very, very good at maths of course, but at genius level it tends to be hugely male.
    As for boy babies and girl,babies being different , of course they are. Gender differences are not social constructs. It’s amazing to see the difference at early ages. A baby boy won’t be seduced by pink and sparkly, a baby girl will. Baby girls are not interested in wheeling dinky cars around the floor, boys do it for hours. That behaviour is inherent and is common in every society and culture around the world. It can’t be a social construct in every society and every culture and in every time. It’s only ever became a “social construct” in the western world post 1960′s.

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    Mute Eucrid
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    Apr 28th 2016, 2:03 PM

    What about the ambitions of boys and girls in 6th year? A lot of students who do honours maths do it because its a requirement for the course they want to do in college. Usually these are STEM subjects. So if you really want to go into STEM then you will work harder at honours maths. Where as if you don’t need honours maths quite often you will be advised to drop it as its believed to take up more study time than other honours subjects.

    So its a bit of chicken and egg situation and these results can be twisted to suit either side of the argument.

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    Mute Awkward Seal
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    Apr 28th 2016, 2:42 PM

    @Lydia Anecdotal evidence doesn’t really prove anything in a nature vs. nuture debate. Women haven’t been discriminated against in education in decades. Girls now outperform men in 50 out of 58 leaving cert subjects (they study more than boys). The exceptions are generally the mathematical ones. The numbers going to third level education are about 50:50 but more women go to universities than ITs. Globally men outperform women in maths so it’s not just an Irish thing. Women were historically discouraged from becoming authors too but that hasn’t stopped them outperforming men in English class. Simply saying girls are marginally not as good as boys at maths because they lack confidence is a bit of a cop out unless you have data to back it up.

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    Mute Ronan P Butler
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    Apr 28th 2016, 7:15 AM

    OUTRAGE!
    This is clearly another machination of the patriarchy. The female students clearly feel threatened by the greater numbers of young men now doing higher maths and its affecting their performance. Separate syllabi for each sex, wait no gender, wait no biological sex…separate things for every type of sex until everyone gets exactly the same results with the exact same frequency. More funding for female maths in our schools is also what’s needed. Ring fence it now!
    OUTRAGE!

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    Mute Veronica
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    Apr 28th 2016, 8:15 AM

    >separate things for every type of sex until everyone gets exactly the same results with the exact same frequency

    Not that that’s the point of the article, but I might as well rebut it a little. If everyone gets the same levels of education with an equal focus on each student, then yes, you would expect that people get roughly the same grades on average (as in, roughly the same numbers of guys and girls doing subjects, and getting around the same grades at the same rates). The bell curve isn’t exactly a difficult concept. If more girls were taking honours economics than boys, and were getting better grades than them, we’d assume that they were recieving some sort of preferential treatment in terms of either how their teachers were treating them, or how society tells girls all the time that they’re wonderful at economics and boys are rubbish. We wouldn’t just go all out and say it’s because boys are either too stupid for, or uninterested in, economics.

    Chillax Ronan.

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    Mute Chris Linehan
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    Apr 28th 2016, 8:23 AM

    When you realise your long and serious comment was in reply to a blatantly sarcastic one.

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    Mute Steve
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    Apr 28th 2016, 8:41 AM

    Femi-nazis dont tend to get wit, sarcasm of humor. Too busy being OUTRAGED.

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    Mute Veronica
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:21 AM

    >Femi-nazis dont tend to get wit, sarcasm of humor. Too busy being OUTRAGED.

    “Sarcasm of humour” I get, but it’s also allowed to make serious replies to “jokes”. I hate that mindset of “Only joking! Can’t get mad because I’m only joking! See! I’m not actually touching your face, I’m just waving my hand near it!”.

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    Mute Malachi
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:43 AM

    Veronica, why is it that you have assumed that it is the teaching making this disparity in grades occur?

    We see statisticians all over the world consistently concluding that there is a broader bell curve for males – more idiots but more geniuses.

    Exactly how have you ruled this out as a possibility for the cause of the difference in grades?

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    Mute John Payne
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:55 AM

    I think we need to introduce quotas to allow more females to reach the same grades as their male counterparts. Seems only fair.

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    Mute Bren MC
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    Apr 28th 2016, 6:23 AM

    Slightly off topic but if you compare a current text and text higher level book from the 1990s you will be astounded. The higher level then is is similar to first year university standard and the higher level now is similar to the pass level then.

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    Mute Bren MC
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    Apr 28th 2016, 6:24 AM

    *leaving cert.

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    Mute Assel Dannourah
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    Apr 28th 2016, 6:58 AM

    everything was harder in the 90′s

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    Mute Darragh O'Connell
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    Apr 28th 2016, 7:10 AM

    Dumbing down the curriculum. Didn’t they do that in the U.K. And are suffering now because of it?

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    Mute James Darcy
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    Apr 28th 2016, 8:06 AM

    The maths curriculum was revamped to make it more practical and easier to learn while still laying foundations in all areas. However we’d want to look at the standard of teaching across secondary schools. It’s appalling for the most part.

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    Mute Shannon Cassidy
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    Apr 28th 2016, 8:59 AM

    I studied maths in university and I actually found that the way maths is thought in school helped me grasp university maths so much better. Yes it may be dumbed down but it is dumbed down for a reason

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    Mute Do the Bort man
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:03 AM

    actually, I believe the older curriculum was easier. I was the last year of the older curriculum, the year that followed me were allowed to use calculators. However, its not the “correct answer” that gets you most of the marks in leaving cert maths, its the methods you used to get the answer that got you most of the most of the marks. The older curriculum was designed so you didn’t need a calculator, so all the answers worked out perfectly, if you had an answer with 5 figures after a decimal point, it usually meant you had the wrong answer!

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    Mute Gerard McDermott
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:38 AM

    @James Darcy

    “However we’d want to look at the standard of teaching across secondary schools. It’s appalling for the most part.”

    Unless you have been taught by every maths teacher in the country, then you are in no position to make a sweeping generalisation like this. You may have been taught by a maths teacher that, in your opinion, was appalling. That same teacher, in their opinion, may have taught that you were an appalling student.

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    Mute Gerard McDermott
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:50 AM

    “That same teacher, in their opinion, may have taught that you were an appalling student.”

    thought that you were an appalling student

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    Mute Ross Merriman
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    Apr 28th 2016, 10:21 AM

    Yes, but the marking back then was equally astoundingly easy.

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    Mute James Darcy
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    Apr 29th 2016, 7:51 AM

    Haha Gerard relax. I work in education’

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    Mute Do the Bort man
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    Apr 28th 2016, 8:20 AM

    More people are doing higher level, as there are more points going for higher level maths than any other higher level subject. The stat that I think is worrying is that 10% of leaving cert students are doing foundation level.

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    Mute Rónán O'Suilleabháin
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    Apr 28th 2016, 8:31 AM

    I’d rather the 10% passed basic foundation level than failed Ordinary. Foundation is functional maths to survive in the world.

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    Mute Gerard McAuliffe
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    Apr 28th 2016, 10:37 AM

    Not everybody can be a shining star. For every male maths genius there’s at least one that probably struggles with very basic maths.

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    Mute Mer Curial
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    Apr 28th 2016, 12:01 PM

    Indeed Gerard, for all those at the right had side of the IQ bellcurve, threre’s all those at the far left hand side also.

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    Mute shane nolan
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    Apr 28th 2016, 7:43 AM

    Obviously this is patriarchy at work.

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    Mute Bigus Diccus
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    Apr 28th 2016, 7:46 AM

    I’m triggered now

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    Mute Francis Devenney
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    Apr 28th 2016, 8:40 AM

    STATES SERIOUSLY SEXIST SUMS SYLLABUS SUPPRESSES SOFTER SEX’S STEM SECURITY!!! :)

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    Mute Ronan P Butler
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    Apr 28th 2016, 8:09 AM

    Unfortunately Gerald, this is not the best of all possible worlds. If it were, Leibniz would’ve been a 20th century polymath instead of a 17th century one. That way he could have met Einstein and seen what utter twaddle some of his musings on uses of mathematics in space and astronomy were.

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Apr 28th 2016, 8:31 AM

    I’ll do a deal with you there Ronan, I will show you an example of what Leibniz meant and why mathematicians are lost in matters of astronomy and the current mess we inherit is basically using astronomy as a dumping ground for every half-witted notion that enters the heads of idiots.

    Copernicus figured out the Earth moved through space and the Sun was at the center of the solar system by accounting for the observed motions of the outer planets as they temporarily fall behind in view as the faster Earth,in an inner circuit overtakes them -

    http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

    The geocentric astronomers thought the forward-backward -forward motions belonged to the planets themselves but Copernicus said it is just an illusion caused by the Earth’s faster motion around the Sun just like a car on a roundabout sees slower moving cars in an outer lane fall temporarily behind in view as it overtakes them. Common sense and made enjoyable for those who take the time to look at the time lapse footage of Jupiter and Saturn above seen from a moving Earth.

    Along comes a mathematical idiot that is Isaac Newton invented absolute/relative space based on a dumb view of the same observed forward-backward-forward motions using a notion that we the backward motions (retrogrades) seen from Earth but not from the Sun -

    “For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
    stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
    always seen direct,…” Newton

    Like Leibniz said, higher reasoning destroys the contrived nonsense of mathematicians so if readers appreciated how Copernicus actually arrived at his conclusion that the Earth and all planets move in one direction around a central Sun they can give themselves a pat on the back and see where the followers of Newton have jumped the tracks. I remind readers that this is at the major juncture of geocentric and heliocentric astronomy and if they can’t get this right then anything else that follows including the voodoo of early 20th century relativity won’t make sense.

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    Mute Critical_Thinker
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:00 AM

    Isaac Newton a “mathematical idiot”? Throw yourself into a black hole Gerald, please.

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:15 AM

    There is a black hole at the bottom of my garden but the other fictitious one only exists in the heads of those who know no better. I have to laugh sometimes as you have these guys running around talking about ‘black hole’ as an object with infinite density/ zero volume but infinite volume/zero density means exactly the same thing or an elaborate way to describe ‘nothing’. The theorists and their followers might get upset but everyone else can do without the academic junk passed off as astronomy.

    Newton is much more interesting as he set up his absolute/relative space and motion based on his dumb view of the observed motions of the other planets. His followers through the centuries never understood what he was up to apart from the ‘scientific method’ he introduced where he tried to fit astronomy into experimental sciences.

    It is one of those things that if you appreciate the time lapse footage of the Earth overtaking Jupiter and Saturn in our common motion around the Sun you can pretty much figure out everything else including the phony view that motions seen from Earth (which Newton called relative space and motion) are resolved by a hypothetical observer on the Sun (absolute space and motion).

    A mathematician doesn’t make a person an astronomer and the wider population including students in the education system must learn this.

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    Mute Critical_Thinker
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    Apr 28th 2016, 10:18 AM

    Feel free to postulate and hypothesise your own explanations and prove them using mathematics. One that, ideally, better explains our universe. Until then, you’re a rambling garden gnome.

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Apr 28th 2016, 1:10 PM

    This is not engineering science or software programming which do require an aptitude in mathematics , you need no more mathematics to appreciate astronomy than you do hopping to your car and driving across town or the countryside. I have no doubt that a few people will just look at the Earth overtaking Jupiter and Saturn and watching them temporarily falling behind in view will be delighted to discover that this is how Copernicus worked out the Earth goes around the Sun and not the Sun around the Earth.

    The analogy of cars on a road doesn’t end there, as the Earth approaches the outer planets they get bigger and brighter just as a car approaching yours on the same road will appear dim and small at first until the point when the headlights are brightest and the car largest at the closest approach of both cars ,same with planets as the sequence of images show as the Earth approach Jupiter and Saturn at our closest point before leaving them behind in the distance -

    http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/jupsatloop_tezel.jpg

    http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

    People have an aptitude for astronomy that is being blocked by the chanting of voodoo by experimental theorists and it is creating problems for the wider community who need to exercise this part of their brain in making sense of the connection between the motions of our planet and terrestrial sciences, solar system structure and things like that.

    How many understand the observations in the time lapse above I cannot say, some will take to it immediately and enjoy that they can while the mathematicians can’t appreciate what is wrong with Newton’s stupid take on the same observations -

    “For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
    stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
    always seen direct,…” Newton

    Again, children need to use the full range of their brain so teaching that junk by Newton as an ‘achievement’ is contrary to the insights of the genuine astronomers who fully understood what the observed motions of the planets represented from a moving Earth and not a hypothetical observer on the Sun.

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    Mute john kelly
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    Apr 28th 2016, 2:30 PM

    Didn’t Newton invent calculus? Why such hate?

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Apr 28th 2016, 4:34 PM

    Newton invented absolute/relative space and motion which substitute for motions seen from Earth (relative) as opposed to motions seen from the Sun (absolute) calling the first ‘apparent’ and the latter ‘true’ hence his nonsense which is outside astronomical reasoning -

    “It is indeed a matter of great difficulty to discover, and
    effectually to distinguish, the true motion of particular bodies from
    the apparent; because the parts of that absolute space, in which those
    motions are performed, do by no means come under the observation of
    our senses. Yet the thing is not altogether desperate; for we have
    some arguments to guide us, partly from the apparent motions, which
    are the differences of the true motions” Newton

    You can’t hate an astronomical dunce like Newton nor his followers but you can feel sorry for those students who never get to see how the great original heliocentric astronomers worked out the Earth travels around the Sun using the observed motions of the other planets as a gauge for that conclusion. Any reader today with the benefit of time lapse footage of Jupiter and Saturn can enjoy the original reasoning of Copernicus which uses a moving Earth and not a hypothetical observer on the Sun nor the meaningless lingo of absolute/relative space and motion .

    Try Galileo instead -

    http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0112/JuSa2000_tezel.gif

    “Now what is said here of Jupiter is to be understood of Saturn and Mars also. In Saturn these retrogressions are somewhat more frequent than in Jupiter, because its motion is slower than Jupiter’s, so that the Earth overtakes it in a shorter time. In Mars they are rarer, its motion being faster than that of Jupiter, so that the Earth spends more time in catching up with it.” Galileo

    It is not a matter of hating Newton, it is a matter of admiring what Copernicus did using 21st century imaging tools.

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    Mute john kelly
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    Apr 29th 2016, 8:17 AM

    Good answer.

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    Mute Cal McLaughlin
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:02 AM

    ****MEN RULE****

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    Mute Francis Devenney
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:12 AM

    ******SLIDE RULE******

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    Mute Catherine Gallagher
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    Apr 28th 2016, 11:47 AM

    I don’t usually like to comment on articles give a “breakdown” on the difference between genders. I’m in Leaving cert and I dropped Higher Level maths around the time of the mocks. I’m more suited to business/English etc so I wanted to focus more time on those. I’m not sure how many people can imagine what it’s like heading into a class, knowing you won’t fully understand everything and stressing about your maths homework before you even got home. Since I dropped to ordinary, it’s taken a huge weight off my shoulders, I understand everything, my homework is far more manageable and I do think because I did higher level right up until then, that it equipped me better for ordinary level. Males usually are better at the new project maths because there’s a big focus on shapes/measurements etc – most of these males might either do tech graphics/construction/engineering – so their minds are more wired for that kind of thing. I think as long as every student is happy with what they’re at, that is the most important thing. Not everyone is wired for everything

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    Mute Tadgh Smith
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    Apr 28th 2016, 1:14 PM

    Any girl that’s wants to study maths can. This could hardly be more of a non-issue. Girls are actually achieving higher points in the leaving cert than boy on average and yet the fact is that when women and girls are given a free choice they choose to go into non-stem fields more often than not. And theirs nothing wrong with that. Women tend to prefer jobs that are more human centred like nursing or psycho therapy. And men tend to prefer jobs that are more object entered like engineering or construction. What’s the problem with that?

    The real issue, and one that is being ignored, is that boys are dropping out if school at far higher rates than girls, scoring lower marks in the leaving cert on average and are entering third level education at a lower rate than girls. The knock on effect of all this is that women in their 20′s and 30′s are actually out earning men in the same age bracket. The educational system is failing boys.

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    Mute Michael Sands
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    Apr 28th 2016, 1:13 PM

    Or are the exams getting easier???

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    Mute Karl Bauer
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    Apr 28th 2016, 2:10 PM

    The reason for this is two fold, firstly the higher level maths paper offers over 100 points now so theres a big incentive to achieve in it. Secondly the difficulty level of the papers has been consistently lowered over the past 10 years through both general lower difficulty and changing of the syllabus to focus heavier on the ‘easier’ areas of mathematics.
    Im not saying the papers are easy at the moment, but I did my leaving certificate (Honors Maths) in 2006 and have had siblings do it in 2009/12 and last one now in 2016. As far as I can see, since 2009 the paper has become easier and easier to pass every couple of years.

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    Mute Gerald Kelleher
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    Apr 28th 2016, 7:50 AM

    Pure mathematicians make nuisances of themselves and they are likely to be the idiots although the world calls them ‘geniuses’ as they force themselves into disciplines like astronomy where they are ill-suited to deal with observations and make proper conclusions. Leibniz, himself a mathematician, commented on this tendency which has done great damage to astronomy by mathematical purveyors of voodoo and bluffing -

    “These are the imaginings of incomplete- notions-philosophers who make space an absolute reality. Such notions are apt to be fudged up by devotees of pure mathematics, whose whole subject- matter is the playthings of imagination, but they are destroyed by higher reasoning” Leibniz

    In things like engineering, mathematics is great but once they go into the area of astronomy all common sense is lost and while the wider world may believe that the person standing in front of a blackboard full of equations is understanding something they don’t, it is all a mathematical joke and much as Leibniz describes.

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    Mute Keely
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    Apr 28th 2016, 9:24 PM

    I’m doing the lc this year and I stuck higher level maths until about 2 weeks ago. My own personal experience is that my teacher, when I didn’t understand something and asked a question, would immediately get up in arms and begin to rant about how this was done in the junior cert and about how we should know this already, even though it was higher level leaving cert maths. He expected us to know it already. And yet when one of the lads in our class asked a question there was a calm discussion about where he was being caught and then Sir would give him a few more examples. This is the kind of environment I was expected to learn in and that environment is the reason why there is three girls left in the class.

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    Mute Patrick Kilgallen
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    Apr 28th 2016, 3:39 PM

    https://m.reddit.com/r/AskSocialScience/comments/38ffpk/is_it_true_that_male_iq_has_a_different/

    Here’s a reddit about the notion that the distribution of boys intelligence has a higher density in the tails. I wasn’t buying it at first. It seems its true.

    From the tables it looks like the average grade is lower now. It’s being dragged down by the people who are enticed to take higher and alot of these end up with a D. Is that better than what was there before?

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