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WE ARE HEARING, with increasing regularity, that the United Nations is insisting that Ireland must legalise abortion.
Since the primary mission of the UN is to protect human rights, this seems more than a little strange because you cannot, in my view, be a genuine human rights defender while calling for some human beings to be stripped of the most fundamental right of all, the right to life.
A closer look at the reality behind the news headlines, however, makes two things abundantly clear.
No right to abortion under international human rights law
Firstly, there is no right to abortion under international human rights law. That is a fact, and a fact easily verified by looking at the UN’s human rights charters and treaties which so many countries, including Ireland, have signed up to.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights doesn’t mention abortion at all, but it does say that all human beings have a right to life. That the preborn child is a human being is a matter now long established by science. As a matter of fact, the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child points out that ”the child by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, before as well as after birth.”
This is what human rights treaties are designed for – to ensure that people who are most vulnerable are not denied their human rights. It’s hard to think of anyone more vulnerable than a preborn child.
The inherent right to life
Similarly, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights doesn’t say that there is a right to abortion but Article 6 protects the right to life in very strong terms, stating that ”every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life.”
It would seem obvious that establishing an arbitrary “right to choose” to end a preborn baby’s life would directly contradict this fundamental right as spelled out in these international treaties.
What’s happening then, is that various UN Committees – and the UN being the ultimate quango, there are many, many such committees – are putting their own personal and political interpretations on these human rights treaties to make the claim that abortion is a right, and must therefore be legalised in Ireland.
It’s worth reminding ourselves of who these committees are, and who they represent, especially when they are attacking Ireland for protecting the right to life of both mother and baby.
Are we meant to take criticism from these UN bodies seriously?
Recently, for example, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women criticised Ireland’s right-to-life 8th Amendment, a clause inserted by the people into the Constitution in a referendum, because it restricted abortion. But shortly afterwards, Saudi Arabia, a kingdom where women are not even permitted to travel, marry or drive without male permission, was elected to a UN committee on women’s rights.
Saudi Arabia already sits on the UN Human Rights Council, as, of course, does China, where forced abortions and other dreadful human rights violations occur. Yet we are meant to take criticisms from UN bodies seriously.
Last month, a UN Committee Against Torture, again attacked Ireland’s pro-life laws and even argued that the government should be working (ie spending taxpayers’ monies) on getting Irish people to support legalised abortion. It’s hard to know which is more concerning: that such an egregious manipulation of democracy was suggested, or that the suggestion was made by a supposed human rights body.
That Committee’s members came from countries like Denmark, which currently aborts 98% of its babies with Down Syndrome before birth, and from the US, a country so fixated by abortion “rights” that it turned a blind eye to the horrifying abuses of abortion doctors like Kermit Gosnell who not only cut the spines of babies born after late-term abortions, but caused several women to die or be maimed in his filthy, but perfectly legal, abortion clinic.
These committees may argue hard to cover up the reality, but the fact remains that, for the preborn child, abortion is the ultimate human rights abuse.
The UN is failing in its mission
Which brings me to my second point: in pushing for abortion the UN is seriously undermining its human rights mission, and is, in my view failing women who deserve support and compassion, not the medieval answer of abortion.
Ireland’s laws are progressive, modern and compassionate precisely because they recognise the scientific certainty that the preborn baby is a human being, and acknowledge the mounting evidence that abortion hurts women.
If we are going to take human rights seriously, and if the UN is to maintain its credibility, then we should be working together to eliminate abortion, not increase its incidence.
Instead of criticising Ireland, the UN should follow our lead in protecting the human rights of both mother and child and seeking a better answer than abortion.
Niamh Uí Bhriain is spokeswoman for the Life Institute.
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Sending boat loads of women to the UK to do it, real compassion there alright.
@Joshua Walsh: Lets be honest here, this isn’t about compassion but about these religious people holding onto and imposing their religious views upon everyone else. They know if there’s a referendum next week abortion will be legalised so they’re in full battle mode doing everything they can to prevent such a referendum. Compassion, yeah, imposing the views of religious zealots at all costs.
@The_Prince_of_Fire: you do realise that not all people who aren’t gone on abortion are religious? I know a few who would probably burst into flames if they entered a church.
@Joshua Walsh: Those numbers have fallen dramatically in the past 10 years or so. There’s nothing compassionate in killing a baby, help women instead.
@Sailtee: If you know of babies being killed please contact the gardai.
@The_Prince_of_Fire: I’m not one bit religious and I don’t hold the same views as you at all.. so that’s a totally naive interpretation.
@The_Prince_of_Fire: plenty of atheists like me out there who are pro life.
This isn’t a religious issue, it’s a human rights one. Abortion ends with a destroyed human life, one that has no voice.
@Joshua Walsh: destroying human life is compassionate? Even if it’s your life?
@Colin Morris: What a misogynistic pig you are. You can’t counter her argument so you make up some, obviously irrational, slur on her appearance?!? You’re disgusting.
@Colin Morris: have a go at critiquing the article rather than the person writing it.
@DaisyChainsaw: Abortion kills, plain and simple. There is no point in your development more transformative than your conception. To think that some magic happens as you travel down the birth-canal that all of a sudden turns “a clump of cells” into a human being is, quite obviously, anti-science. You’re no more enlightened than a flat-earther.
@Brian Lenehan: How is it misogynistic to refer to her as a ‘swivel eyed loon’?
Her lunacy derives from her membership of Youth Defence and other US funded religious groups – not the fact that she is a woman.
@Joshua Walsh: murdering children because someone was to drunk to use protection or decided to take a chance isnt exactly facing up to your responsibilities either, as much as there are other circumstances involved, to say its boat loads of women crossing the sea because of rape or child abnormalities is complete rubbish,
@Les Boyd: Most women who have an abortion were failed by their contraception. They were and are being responsible.
@The_Prince_of_Fire: nothing to do with religion, it’s to do with humanity….. And standing up for the most vulnerable in society, sick of that being the only argument yea can throw at it…. How can you justify the killing of an innocent child?
@DaisyChainsaw: that’s not true…..where are you getting that idea from!? Where’s the evidence?
@Les Boyd: Please please please call the authorities about those murders you speak off. Murder is illegal, you know that, right? I hope you have plenty of evidence of these heinous crimes you speak of.
@Joshua Walsh: The ultimate Irish solution to an Irish problem, export it.
@Sinead Fox: http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/emily-s-story-an-illegal-abortion-in-ireland-1.2376568 BPAS stats because they take care of the majority of Irish abortions.
@Brian Lenehan: so when does it turn from a clump of cells into a human being? Because that really is the crux of the situation. In my mind it is when the fetus reaches viability and can live independently outside its mother. That is obviously arbitrary but truly the only clear defined point is when the zygote is formed that. Most people however aren’t against the morning after pill, are you?
@Brian Lenehan: excellent comment but have some compassion for those who still believe in the stork
@Michael Wall:
OK – here is my critique of the article.
She does not explain why Ireland’s savage abortion laws are humanitarian. She just attacks the UN.
This can be explained by the fact that Niamh ui Bhriain is a swivel eyed loon who is a member of extreme right catholic hate group Youth Defence who believe that gay people deserve death.
@Sinead Fox: I’m really sick and tired of people like u. First of all it’s none of ur goddamn business what other people do to there bodies. It’s there choice not yours. Who the hell do u think u are to tell someone whom you’ve never met what to do or not to do. The fact that women have to leave the country is archaic and embarrassing. Everyone should have a choice. Not just the likes of you
@Ian Walsh: well idiot if your unfortunate to ever loose a child or suffer the trauma of a miscarriage you might have a different opinion, lve had the joy (after quiet a few losses) of seeing my first borns heart beat at 4 weeks old, and then seeing her born, it gave a very different opinion of abortion, maybe we should ban abortion until after tbe child is born and then intoduce it, l nominate you for the first one
@The_Prince_of_Fire: You make two assumptions. One that everyone who is pro-life is a religious zealout. Secondly, you make the assumption that if we had a referendum next week it would pass. Referendum history will elucidate the uncertain ways of voters, so I wouldn’t take for granted what you seem to think is a given. A conversation is needed on both sides, and not one that is restricted to 99 citizens. The issue of abortion is not black or white, and should not be treated as such, the topic is very much grey!
@DaisyChainsaw: absolute rubbish, says who, the women who applied for termination.
Seriously if your asked the reason are you going to l missed my pill, l didnt use protection, we took a chance, the list is huge or just oh my pill didnt work
@Les Boyd: where did you see the heart at 4 weeks old? No modern U/S can possibly pick up a heartbeat until 7 weeks.
At the very least 6 and a half weeks is the absolute earliest U/S pick up of heartbeat
@Brian Lenehan: Hello Brian. Here’s some science:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/it-is-simply-wrong-to-call-a-fertilised-ovum-a-human-1.3181476
@Brian Lenehan: Abortion is the ending of a pregnancy. Women choose to have them out of their own free will as they do not want to remain pregnant.Why do you want them to take the HUGE risk of going through with a full term pregnancy just to keep some stranger like you happy ? Have you ever taken out a newspaper ad & made a monetary offer to any of these women ? If you have? I will say fair boughs to yeah!
@Laura Skehan: Here is an image of a three week old “heart”
Isn’t it beautiful :-)
@Les Boyd: Why do you want every woman to be forced to go full term with an unwanted pregnancy ? And do you normally get involved in other peoples medical choices ?
@Sinead Fox: if you personally know of children being killed , kindly report it to the guards. Thanks.
@Laura Skehan: actually they can be seen with the right equipment, as the heart only has 2 chambers at that time, both go like the clappers and this movement can be measured, have the video if you doubt me,
@Francis Mc Carthy: Francis as much as l would never expect someone who has been raped or their own life will be put in danger by having a child (and there are those that think these arent valid reasons) to go full term. Let me ask you a question if smeone forgets contraception or just takes a chance is it right that the pregnancy should be terminated just for their stupidity,
@Colin Morris: is she ? Oh boy .
@Ronan Sexton: and that’s fine. No-one is talking about forced mandatory abortions. This is about giving people choice for what they want to do and how they want to do it, or at very least remove the burden of travelling to another country. The way I see it is that the “pro Life” brigade are actually anti-life for the mother when in situations of potential harm.
@Les Boyd: Does it matter why she needs an abortion? She’s decided she doesn’t want to go through with the pregnancy. That should be enough.
@DaisyChainsaw: “Most women who have an abortion were failed by their contraception”
Actually most women have an abortion because the child will have a disability
@Joshua Walsh:
Who ‘sends’ them? Stupid post.
You mention the 8th amendment being inserted by the people in a referendum.
If you trusted the people in that case how about we check in with them again 35 years later to see if anything has changed?
If it has then maybe we can legislate for the society we actually live in rather than the one religious types would like it to be.
@Keniby Khronicles: Worth reading about Niamh’s family history in interfering with social policy in this country, it’s a very radicalised and eye-watering read https://comeheretome.com/2012/07/29/una-bean-mhic-mhathuna-40-years-of-reactionary-politics/
@Keniby Khronicles: The Irish people also inserted the 13th amendment. Antichoice are NIMBY hypocrites have no interest in repealling it it so Irish abortions continue to be outsourced to England.
@Keniby Khronicles: And if, as I suppose you assume, a referendum would allow for abortion, when can we hold another referendum to roll it back? There’s not a snowballs chance in Hell that the so-called “liberals” would countenance another referendum once they have gotten their way.
@Brian Lenehan: Like re-running the Divorce Referendum?
Honestly you people.
Have the referendum, if it fails to repeal the 8th I won’t suddenly becoem Anti-Choice, I will still call for another referendum. That’s obvious.
Because that’s the world we live in.
Do you honestly believe we should never have re-ran the Divorce Referendum?
@Atheos Euripides: http://www.hotpress.com/news/10023271.html?new_layout=1&page_no=8&show_comments=1
@Atheos Euripides: wow
Paragraph 2, first sentence: “in my view” – Doesn’t really have the same caché or gravitas as “as evidenced by the facts”, or “upon the mature reflection of international experts”, now, does it..?
@Conchubhair MacLochlainn: We all have views from the information we receive, and it is called a voices article..
@Conchubhair MacLochlainn: There are very few if any facts in this article, just lies and misleading half truths. Take a look at what The Life Institute really believe, may I draw your attention to No. 5, they dismiss Fatal Foetal Abnormalities.
@The_Prince_of_Fire: Disturbing
There is nothing Progressive, Modern or Compassionate about about forcing a woman who has received a diagnosis of a severe or fatal foetal anomaly to continue her pregnancy against her will, irrespective of the suffering that will be endured by her or her child.
Those who choose to continue the pregnancy need the highest levels oif support and respect for that choice, as do those who choose a termination.
@Gerry Edwards: the the Irish times ipsos poll has support of over 80% for this.
@Gerry Edwards: the former Master of the Rotunda believes we could legislate for FFA under the 8th and missed the opportunity to do so in 2013, many lawyers agree with him btw.
@Gerry Edwards: I fail to comprehend where FORCING comes into the debate when a mother actually chooses to undergo an elective abortion. Speaking of the suffering of the child, nobody ever asks the child the question of what it is like to undergo an injection of NaCL or digoxin through the heart. Note parents like me are FORCED over to the UK with my child to have surgery which is perfectly legal here due to such long waiting lists here.
@Marion Murphy: Because it’s not a child. It’s a foetus with an undeveloped nervous system, incapable of feeling pain or thought of any kind.
@DaisyChainsaw: the potential for pain starts at 8 weeks from conception as the nerves are already developed! Watch a video of a child being aborted under ultrasound and see it squirm away from the needle and SCREAM! It’s beyond horrific what happens to those babies!!
@Sinead Fox: no Hun, read the facts please: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440624/
@Sinead Fox: Wow Sinead. Do you believe everything you see on the internet?
@Sinead Fox: Well that’s just another lie
Are you people incapable to telling the truth or are you falling victim to the “I want to believe it so I will” bias. Sheesh!
@Sinead Fox: So you only support abortion up to 8 weeks of pregnancy – well that’s progress I suppose.
@Colin Morris: The nervous system begins approx at the third to fourth week into pregnancy then again Planned Parenthood in their programs are telling youngsters to ignore science. http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/pregnancy-week-by-week/in-depth/prenatal-care/art-20045302
@Sinead Fox: YIKES!
@Marion Murphy: It ‘begins’ ..nice try,but no cigar!
@Marion Murphy: It’s great to see that wonderful ‘pro life’ organisation doing it’s magnificent work ..By the way-how is the ‘defunding’ working out :-)
@Sinead Fox: eh, what sort of a weirdo would watch such a thing.
@Graham Quinn: Antis get off on their abortion porn. They can’t get enough of their weird little kink.
Since when have the anti choicers cared about women’s rights oh the irony “manipulation of a democracy ” talk about the kettle calling the pot black and as usual the author thinks she speaks for the whole country.
@Marie Gunbay: “Manipulation is a well known trait of the Lie Institute …..let’s not forget the bogus clinics and the propaganda bill boards targeting vulnerable women.
@Marie Gunbay: That’s a bit rich isn’t it? Pro aborts are kings at targeting vulnerable women. A woman who finds herself pregnant is very vulnerable and pushing the agenda that an abortion will solve all her problems is the biggest lie out there. Many woman suffer emotionally for many years after an abortion and it’s a hurt that can’t be healed. Let woman who regret their abortions be here. No though that doesn’t fit with the narrative you like to spout. I’m an atheist and I’m a feminist and I am pro life !!!!
@Catherine Sims: Are you seriously suggesting that people that believe women have a right to access abortion go around insisting that an “abortion will solve all your problems”
PROVE IT!! Seriously! Prove it!
Ask women that went to a clinic if they at all felt pressured?
Honestly, you people will say ANYTHING to further your cause. Lying for Jesus eh!
@Catherine Sims: And BTW, all (real) and comprehensive studies have repeatedly shown that the most common feeling women have after abortion is RELIEF!
But again, you lie to further your cause.
You have such a poor opinion of people you think that if you tell enough lies you will convince people. When all you’re doing is showing you up for who you are!
@Catherine Sims: What is the pro-life movement doing to ensure that a foetus can be brought to life without forcing an unwilling woman to be involved.
Oh yeah. Nothing,.
The pro-life movement is full of swivel eyed loons like this Youth Defence woman – a woman who believes that showing placards of aborted foetuses outside a rape crisis centre is appropriate behaviour.
@Catherine Sims: I would love to see your credible source for that load of hogwash? Why do you lie ?
@Catherine Sims: There is no causative connection between abortion and mental health difficulties as shown by two systematic scientific reviews in the last ten years. However the circumstances of trauma, violence or abuse that women experience immediately before or during their pregnancies is strongly related to mental health problems. Antichoice spokespersons constantly repeat this lie of a postabortion syndrome which despite it being refuted by the scientific evidence. Then again they claimed that abortion caused cancer and some of them are still repeating that lie too.
@Marie Gunbay:
Well they don’t want to abort young females. You do.
If you’re going to quote an Article from the Declaration, it would be super if you’d quote it’s entirety; Article 3: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Articles 4 and 5 might help you begin to understand why the UN doesn’t think that equating an unviable foetus with the person carrying them makes our abortion laws profressive, modern and compassionate.
Article 4: No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Arricle 5:
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
@Felicity Hensen: You would think so wouldn’t you Felicity but when your goal is manipulation …well the article says it all really doesn’t it … manipulation of the facts.
@Felicity Hensen: what about a viable foetus? Splitting the referendum to two choices I couldn’t see the unviable question losing. Must be a small percentage. The second question on the viable will be the key one
@Felicity Hensen: how to you equate slavery with pregnancy and why do you ignore this – ‘UN Convention on the Rights of the Child points out that ”the child by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, before as well as after birth.”’ See that before and after birth, seems like the UN regards the unborn children, but of a problem for many pro-choice who deny this.
@Michael Wall: oh these people are a joke. I had one colleague who was ” proud” of her abortion . It wasn’t a baby and all that blah. 3 years later got pregnant by her boyfriend and ended up having a miscarriage in the same week of pregnancy that she had aborted on her last pregnancy . She went around moping how she had lost her ” baby”. The only difference it seems in reality is if the child is wanted. They change the language to suit their agenda. BS !!
@Catherine Sims: Contradicting yourself there Catherine.
I take this “story” with the same pinch of salt I take all your other “claims”.
@Tricia Golden: My sides are splitting from so much laughter because of her ‘stories’ :-)
@lavbeer: It’s actually quite easy lavbeer. It is possible to allow access to abortion services up to a certain development point, and then afterwards only for medical reasons.
@Michael Wall: When you force a person to live and/or work in a manner against their will, it can be considered slavery.
You may wish to note that the quote you posted states “appropriate legal protection”, which to me implies that a(n unviable) foetus should not be equated to the person carrying them.
Well Niamh, we live in a democracy and you are of course entitled to your opinion. However, it’s also very clear to me from reading your article that you have never been in the unfortunate position of having an unwanted pregnancy…or been in circumstances where it would have been detrimental to your own health, both physical& mental, to go through with that same unwanted pregnancy. So you think it’s more humane and compassionate to keep exporting our problem(women will ALWAYS have abortions by the way, whether you like it or not) to Britain and forcing women to have them there rather than letting the women have the procedure done in Ireland and caring for them here??? It really is time that as a country we grew up a bit& left religious/ moral views out of it. This is a health problem, we need to treat it accordingly.
@Sorcha Grisewood: The advent of a child is never just a “health problem”. It’s a social problem, a financial problem and above all an emotional problem. Both pro-life and pro-choice try very hard hard to ignore this. Why do they do that? Because pro-life does not want to emphasise the high costs of having children; because pro-choice does not want to acknowledge the high pressures that come on women not to have children. The general populace do not want to have a referendum, because this is a very old, very deep, fissure in our society, and the exercise of the passions around it is very unpleasant and reminds us of the compromises accepted, necessary to live together. One way or another, each Irish ascendancy has tried to control population growth by disposing of “unwanted” children. The current secular ascendancy wants abortion, the previous Catholic ascendancy wanted to export children by adoption, the 19th Century Unionist ascendancy want to convert them to a particular religion, the Protestant ascendancy before that, Grattan and the rest, simply killed them (the site of St James Hospital, where the National Children’s Hospital is proposed, is the grave of at least 100,000 children, who were variously poisoned, neglected or starved to death in the Foundling Hospital that was there before James’s). Be honest, both; this is not a debate about the individual life of the unborn child, or the rights of the individual adult mother, this is a debate about society and how we control women and children, and our power and responsibility over their lives. A woman never has a child in isolation, she does so with or without the support of society, and sometimes society tells her she may not have the child. As an Englishwoman who had had an abortion once told me “My parents said ‘Oh, just get rid of it, darling, think of your career.’” Think of the neighbours more like, think how much trouble this will be for us. So much for the right to choose, and the right to life, neither mother nor child had any such thing.
@Jonathan Mills: I agree with most of that post. However, as a pro life atheist and feminist (from when it wasnt so fashionable) I don’t ignore the “social problem, a financial problem and above all an emotional problem.” It’s plain to see.
@Sorcha Grisewood: hold on, just because people will always do something unlawful doesn’t mean we stop making these acts unlawful.
The life of the unborn human (and it is a life, the heart is beating at 6 weeks, there’s fingernails at 12 weeks) has a value. How much you value that life and weigh it against bodily integrity is the question here.
@RG Law: The point I’m trying to make is that the debate is wrongly couched in terms of rights; it ignores responsibilities. A woman can have a child and bring it up alone. It can be done. All the evidence is that it’s hell for the mother and for the child. The pressures on a pregnant woman to engage with those around her are immense, their power over her and the child are enormous. This is the side of the debate which is completely ignored, and it’s the side that really matters. Both pro-life and pro-choice are responsible for this, feminists and those who oppose them (whoever they are, haven’t heard much from them lately).
@RG Law: The last time we had this debate it was horrible and deeply divisive. The old ascendancy and the new adopted their positions as battle flags, just as they are beginning to now. If we have the debate again we should make sure that doesn’t happen; if only to tell those who want ascendancy that the time for ascendancy is gone with the British, who used the model to divide us and rule us. The worst cost of their model, somehow, was always borne by children.
@Jonathan Mills: Do you REALLY think the pro-choice side isn’t IMMENSELY aware of those issues!?
It’s the primary reason I’m pro-choice.
I CAN see and understand exactly the impact on me, my family, society , my job etc. that having child would inflict.
I also do not ever want children.
I’m very aware and in fact I don’t know any woman that isn’t (though I’ve met a few young girls that haven’t quite grasped it).
I’m perfectly capable of empathising with an unwanted pregnancy BECAUSE I know it’s impact.
And it’s the main reason why I’m Pro-Choice.
@Tricia Golden: We don’t hear that in the debate. I think both sides are very much out of line and we don’t hear from the middle. I suggest bringing the power and responsibility questions into the debate and not just the mother’s responsibility, which you have outlined. The idea is to arrive at a sane, sensible consensus, and not a victory for one side or the other. Ascendancy, with its power given only to one side or the other should be over, after 100 years.
@Jonathan Mills: Why are you under the assumption that Pro-Choice people ignore the pressures on single mothers, Jonathan? I think you’ll find a huge percentage of people fighting for the right of women to choose are already parents, many of which single parents, the majority of which feminist. Yes, a woman can have a child and bring it up alone, I have twice over. I have endured 21 years as a single parent in this country. Our life, so far has taken an enormous toll on me, mentally, physically & financially. Yes I am proof that it can be done at a cost but there are many, many women that, for them, prove the opposite. For that very reason, until we have full reproductive rights in this country, I will fight for a woman’s right to choose.
@Sue Jordan: The pro-choice side ignore the pressure single mothers (and some married ones) come under to abort. In Britain and some other countries there is also medical pressure to do so, even where there has been a history of false positives in tests for Downs Syndrome. On the pro-life side they constantly play down the pressures that single mothers undergo, both before and after the birth of the child. Giving women the “right to choose” also deprives them of backstop support and effectively dumps the entire decision, and all the responsibility, and therefore the entire emotional burden and guilt (and you can feel guilty whichever choice you make) onto them. It may have worked out for you, but it really isn’t going to work for all cases. Both pro-choice and pro-life do this; they’re both selling us all a pig in a poke, and they ought to be called up on it.
Pathetic. While I don’t agree with the author’s backward, medieval religious views that encourage the subjugation of her own sex I’ll stand by her right to have them. But I can’t, and won’t stand by is when people like her want to impose these archaic views upon others. That’s crossing a line.
All these people are prepared to spend vast sums and enormous effort rallying against abortions they’ll never have, but won’t put a fraction of the same effort into helping existing children sleeping on our streets. Pathetic, they ought to be run out of the country.
@The_Prince_of_Fire:it is not a backward medieval religious view that a child in the womb is human.It is a scientific fact that the human develops over a nine month period in the protection of its mother’s womb.People use the term viable to indicate the chance for a premature child to be carried to full term with medical intervention if necessary.Medical science will enable the viability to be earlier in the pregnancy.
Whilst a mother might want to abort the child this also involves medical intervention.The doctor’s maxim is “do no harm”.If life does not begin at conception then when does it begin?Aren’t we lucky that our own parents chose not to abort us?If a child has to be aborted to save the life of the mother that is a medical decision.It should never be based on an inconvenient whim.
@The_Prince_of_Fire: So she has the right to her opinion, but she ought to be run out of the country for having them……
@Sailtee: We all have the right to an opinion, but not the right to impose our opinions or beliefs upon others who may not share them.
Some of the religious once put forward the bizarre view that, should abortion be legalised here, it would be imposed upon the general populace. Ridulous I know, but this view was believed by many God fearing folk.
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: So take God and religion out of the equation, allow the people to vote on the matter with NO interference and, if they decide they they want abortion, so be it. Call it God’s will.
@The_Prince_of_Fire: Abortion is medieval. We know in the 21st century it’s not even medicine.
@The_Prince_of_Fire: yet the abortion is imposed on the baby who has no voice in this situation….. Imposing abortion is not that far fetched when you look at China and other countries, even listen to abuse victims who while under age were brought to abortion clinics and made abort their babies by their abusers!
@Marion Murphy: What a woman chooses to do with her own body is none of your business. None.
@Sinead Fox: Would you people STOP perpetuating that LIE.
Who the hell do you actually think runs these clinics!? There is zero chance that would happen unless it was an illegal abortion (you know, the kind YOU LOT want to make sure are the only ones available).
Do you think a Doctor would permit anyone else in with the patient, Do you think those nurses and doctors aren’t TRAINED to spot what you’ve described!!
Honestly, is critical thinking just not taught where you were educated!?
@Marion Murphy: How isn’t medical pills not medicine \O/
@The_Prince_of_Fire:
So you think a good solution for children’s homelessness is to abort them?
Kind of weird.
Great article, it’s great to see so many women starting to speak up against this grotesque movement. The proof is in the numbers and the feet on the street, the pro life movement in reality has far greater support hence the disparity in protest size.
@Dean Burroughs:That is what free travel does.
@Francis Mc Carthy: So why the fear of a referendum to repeal the 8th?
@Dean Burroughs: “Great article, it’s great to see so many women starting to speak up against this grotesque movement.”
Eh, shes one of the same half dozen or so people who are always in the media on the subject.
@Dean Burroughs: Zero evidence to back up your claim.
@Dean Burroughs: The writer of this piece believes that gay people deserve murder (she is a member of Youth Defence).,
She is hardly pro-life.
@Joey Navinski: They know that the majority are in favour of some changes..that is why…They didn’t want women having abortions due to suicidal reasons & they sure as hell don’t want them for FFA,which the majority (80%) want ..They also know that people would want women to have the option in cases for rape/incest….In other words..these people are afraid..
@Colin Morris: that’s made up – a total lie. Trying to discredit the writer of an article is hardly the way to debate an issue. You need to play the ball, not the writer!
@Síghle A Ni Ainle: This is the zealotry and insanity, the bigotry and hate of Youth Defence members including the author.
http://www.hotpress.com/news/10023271.html?
I hadn’t realised till now that getting rid of Amendment 8 would make abortion compulsory for all women.
Oh you poor persecuted thing… How dare your beliefs be questioned. It’s not like the majority of your own country would like to see the law change or anything…
@Seth Cheffetz: yes but what and by how ?
@Seth Cheffetz:
I suspect you know nothing about my country. So maybe just Buzz Off.
Ha! She mentions Gosnell :-) Scaremongering at it’s finest. So she would rather have ‘poor’ women getting back street abortions in alleys, like the good old days,where the women would end up in A&E”s with all kinds of horrific injuries..What nice peeps the anti choicer’s really are :-)
@Francis Mc Carthy: It’s almost like they think we’re all dumb.
The guy that was convicted of murder for doing illegal abortions and yet that’s exactly the world she wants us to live in. If it wasn’t so desperately sad it would be funny.
@Tricia Golden: The rabid anti choicer’s WANT women to have unsafe illegal abortions ..For my sins,I have had a discussion lately with a woman called ‘Maria’ ;) who said that she doesn’t care if the woman dies procuring one of those..that it was her own fault…She also didn’t care about the woman’s family that were left behind …These are the crew that say “loveboth” to passersby’s ..
Abortion is the ultimate human rights violation for the preborn child
@michael k: you are just a pre death person.
@michael k: And the born child that will be sectioned against their will & who then will be forced to go full term.What about her human rights ?
@michael k: Is “preborn” the new word? It’s my birthday today and I’m pre-drunk. Hoping I may also be pre-shagged.
@Cat Agatha: Its not a New word to pregnant women but it is for those who dont grow up
@Alfonso Armenta Fernández:
Aprende ingles, lo que escribiste no tiene sentido. Mejor que no dejes comentarios tontos aqui.
Is the writer of this piece affiliated to Youth Defence – the group that stationed a van with pictures of aborted foetuses outside a rape crisis centre.
I am very interested to hear the progress being made by her group on the machine that will allow a foetus to gestate to full term without forcing an unwilling woman to participate in the pregnancy.
Clear and factual article, it’s obvious that the usual suspects who are all in a bother about it haven’t even read it. They just see its not pro-abortion and start complaining.
@Sailtee: roll on the referendum.
Did u read the article at all? Joshua boatloads of women? Surely that’s boatloads of women and babies eh? Keniby religious types?? 35 years and you still think that is what is happening. You dont have to believe in God to know that killing a baby is horrifically wrong. Conchubhair opinions yes but facts? Human life begins at conception – fact. Marie gunby – anti-choice? Ending a life is the ultimate choice. Pro life care about womens rights and the babys rights.
Ask yourself what actually is an abortion? What is the procedure? What are the stats in uk? In iceland? Pro-abortionists be careful what you wish for.
@Ismise Máire: Killing babies is always wrong.If you know anybody that is doing this,then please get onto the relevant authorities asap.Withholding information will make you an accessory,which is a serious crime..PS .please tape the conversation as I love a good laugh :-)
@Francis Mc Carthy: the same criteria for abortion in countries where it’s commonplace is now being used to justify post birth abortion.
Are you in favour of post birth abortions? Or have you a time limit?
@RG Law: Absolute utter tripe. Is there anything you people wouldn’t say or make up? “Post birth abortion” Stfu
@Ismise Máire: You people really just DON’T read the stats do you.
Abortion rates are higher in countries where it’s illegal. Because it’s usually in conjunction with restrictive contraception laws. (they’re also where high numbers of women die accessing unsafe, illegal abortions (about 60 thousand annually,) and high numbers injured (approx 5 million annually))
Nordic countries tend to have the lowest rates because they have good sex education, good access to contraception and legal, safe abortion access.
But let’s not let actual FACTS get in way.
@RG Law: About 17-00 hrs would be my time limit ..
@Ian Walsh: And partial birth abortion ( killing the baby as it is being born). ProLife people know all about this and I think ProChoice people know too but pretend otherwise because it is too horrible and difficult to sell to the voters.
@Tricia Golden: here’s some stats for u
In iceland 100% of babies in utero diagnosed with down’s syndome are aborted. 100%. Gone.
In UK in 2016 recorded a 5 year high for england & wales. Nearly 4/10 abortions were repeat abortions.
50 of the women had each had 8 abortions. Guardian 17 may 2016.
In uk 90% of babies in utero diagnosed w down’s syndrome are aborted.
Whats the word ….. emmmm….eu ….eu oh yes eugenics
*sits back and waits for ridiculous justification by pro abortionist*
A nonsense article. It’s quite simply time to give women FULL autonomy over their bodies. Legalise abortion. If you don’t want one, don’t get one.
@Mark Dunne: What facts that the article quoted are nonsense, particularly about the various UN articles?
@Michael Wall: the essence of the article is that she’s trying to justify maintaining the position, in Ireland, whereby women do not have full autonomy over their bodies. That’s what’s nonsense about it.
@Mark Dunne: Well maybe if you dont want a child in the first place dont go barebacking,
@Les Boyd: that fact is, abortion will always be needed, because people will always have sex; it’s a procedure that gives women an opportunity to regain control over their own lives. When people are able to choose their own futures and decide if and when they’re ready to start a family, that’s better for them and for society as a whole.
@Les Boyd: Going by the statistics, the majority of women who go onto have abortions,they would already have had children.Then surely she knows what is best for her and for her family.. I’ll ask you these questions..Do you know her medical records? Do you need to know about them ? Do you know anything about her previous pregnancies ? Finally.How will any decision that she will make, ever have an affect on your life?
So is the journal meant for news on Ireland to be transformed into a biased article? Do the people of oppressed Catholic Ireland speak for the current generation?
Of course the numbers of Anti parties will show in greater numbers during protests as they have more to loose. Should the law be modified they are not being forced to use the option, they can continue their lives as pro-life but forcing others into their choice is not right! The freedom of choice is needed and a referendum will prove that the Ireland of today will stand by its women and grant pro-choice. Forcing women (young and old) to travel to the UK, France, etc is horrendous. Quite possibly having them to face this travel and challenge alone is shameful. I know there are worse of places, that does not mean we should settle
@Darren Boland: there is no freedom of choice when that choice impacts on someone else.
In this instance you destroy a human life. Abortion is not a victimless act.
The Journal is the most biased media outlet in Ireland, favouring the pro abortion side. It’s rare to see a piece from a pro life perspective here.
‘We do not want contraception, abortion, divorce, homosexuality, secular schools or any of the trappings of an uninspiring secular Ireland.’
This is the stated view of the writer’s mother.
I would hope that this writer condemns the evil bigotry of her parent.
Why was the writer’s link to disgraced hate group Youth Defence not mentioned.
@Colin Morris: Get a grip, youth defence had 80,000 people out on a pro-life march last month, Clearly they speak to the middle ground while you are just spewing hatred.
@Sailtee:
Youth Defence is a catholic hate group financed from the US.
The 6000 (not 80,000 as the organisers claimed without proof) ) who were on the anti-choice parade should not be regarded as Youth Defence supporters.
Youth Defence is linked to far right, extremist racist groups.
The writer of this article is a member of the Youth Defence hate group.
Thank you Níamh for writing this. The UN and amnesty pushing Ireland to do this is so wrong. Abortion is not a human right, but the right to life is. They’re supposed to supporting life.
@Rosie Murray: They are supporting life. The sentient life of the women and girls failed by the 8th amendment.
@Rosie Murray: What “right to life” does an embryo have ? Put it up there for all of us to see ?
What absolute horse manure. When it comes to abortion Ireland treats pregnant women less ‘progressively’ than that bastion of womens rights, the islamic republic of Iran.
The vote needs to happen, and FG need to hold it before students head off abroad for the summer to work.
I think the family of Savita Halappanavar might beg to differ.
@Darren Tully: There’s many more dead because of our anti woman legislation.
@Darren Tully: Savita H. Died from Sepsis. Quite a number of people have died from this highly infectious disease since Savita H. Died. It was the fact that this condition was missed by the hospital staff and not treated that led to the unfortunate death of this young mother to be and not because we have protection for mothers and unborn babies in our constitution.
@Síghle A Ni Ainle: How did she get that sepsis?
Yeah, we’re right and everyone else is wrong. Women who get pregnant in other European countries and want to keep the baby all come here to not have an abortion.
This ‘writer’ simply attacks the UN.
Without referencing the woman hating savagery of the ‘pro life’ movement and our insanely restrictive abortion laws.
@Colin Morris: She points out the hypocrisy of what is supposed to be a human rights body supporting the removal of a basic human right to life for a section of humans.
Excellent article.
Only 23% of the Irish people support the repeal the 8th agenda of abortion on demand according to a May MRBI poll.
If the goal of the rigged Citizens Assembly was to sway public opinion, it has failed.
@Emma Murphy: can you point to the patch of thin air that this figure was plucked from?
@Emma Murphy: …..’the rigged Citizen Assembly….’ hahaha haha hilarious!
@Emma Murphy: So you shouldn’t have a problem having a referendum to repeal the 8th. As a father of a daughter who can’t vote I will use mine to give her the choice to choose what is best for her if she ever finds herself in a situation she may need one.
Niamh is a member of Youth Defence, an organisation whose members have said “Queers should all be shoved off the side of a cliff.” http://www.hotpress.com/news/10023271.html?new_layout=1&page_no=8&show_comments=1
Youth Defence also have significant links with European Neo-Nazi and fascist groups. In the wake of fascists murdering a protester in Charlotsville, is it appropriate to have someone with links to such vile organisations telling us what is progressive and compassionate? https://spotlightontheright.wordpress.com/2016/10/05/no-2-justin-barrett-michael-quinn/
So I don’t think we should pay any attention to what someone from someone who wants Ireland to be a Catholic fascist theocracy. What’s next, will The Journal have someone from Daesh on to comment about Human Rights in the Irish Constitution?
Not to mention her points are useless and don’t substantively address the details of the UN Reports. She doesn’t mention the people who suffered because of our regressive abortion laws.
@Lamhfada: The Lie Institute!
@Lamhfada: The issue being debated here is the hypocrisy of the UN.
@Síghle A Ni Ainle: As authored by a hypocrite.
Does the writer believe (like her Ma does) that contraception (other than the rhythm method) is murder?
“mounting evidence that abortion hurts women”
Provide us with that peer reviewed “evidence ” ********crickets chirping******
@Francis Mc Carthy: Well a supposedly repentant mass murderer said so at the Citizens Assembly and we all know former abortionists can be trusted implicitly, now that they’re no longer murdering preborn children, eh?
These comments are so predictable, not one with a valid argument against what this writer is saying. Just attacking the church?? and peoples religious beliefs??. Neither of which have anything to do with this issue. It just shows how weak the argument for abortion. Ireland’s life amendment protects woman and baby during pregnancy.
#savethe8th #abortiondiscriminates
@Christine D’Arcy: That would only be possible if the author had a valid argument.
She does not.
She ignores the substantive details of the UN reports, and instead makes what amounts to ad hominem attacks on the UN as a whole. The UN reports were based on actual people who have suffered under regressive Irish abortion law.
The 8th Amendment restricts the rights to bodily autonomy for people who can get pregnant. It interferes with the right to consent in Irish Maternity care. Because we allow the 13th Amendment to act as a pressure valve for the 8th, to allow people to travel, it unfairly discriminates against people who cannot travel for the healthcare they need, such as people in direct provision, people with disabilities and people on low incomes or who have a high care burden.
The 8th Amendment means a zygote or a fetus without a developed brain necessary to become a person has greater rights than a living, breathing person who bares it. The 8th Amendment is massively unethical.
If you dislike abortion and want to reduce it, start fighting for greater sex education, more freely available contraception, greater childcare and care for people with a disabilities.
Don’t support the largely religious based hypocrisy of supporting the current status quo where we just export the problem to the UK and the EU. Irish people are already having thousands of abortions a year, let’s be compassionate and allow them to have the healthcare they need in Ireland.
@Christine D’Arcy: this is what they believe, woo woo at its finest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensoulment#Catholic_Church
@Christine D’Arcy: The church raped its way through several generations of boys and girls, locked them up in industrial schools and laundries as slaves and sold their babies for profit. Ms Ui Bhriain was raised in an ultra religious atmosphere and by her involvement in this religion condones. The 8th amendment was introduced at a time when we believed statues moved and priests were celibate. A significant number of us are no longer so gullible to be guided by such a corrupt organisation.
@Lamhfada: The UN is an evil and corrupt organisation, for sale to the highest bidder and a vehicle for the New World Order.
@Daithí Ó’Céileachair: It really highlights the irrationality of the anti-choice, protect the 8th lobby, when one of their go to arguments are conspiracy theories about the “New World Order”.
@Lamhfada: The UN is contradicting itself and that is the issue. It can’t on the one hand be a human rights body stating that every person has a right to life before and after birth and at the same time campaign for abortion. Crazy.
The predead adult with links to white supremacists and inspired by incest and child abuse apologist Mena Cribben… No thanks.
@DaisyChainsaw: I’ve screenshot this and am sending to Life Institute. I know you are bonkers but this is insanely defamatory.
Ireland’s progress towards a secular state is slow and Catholic encumbered and despite the sensible and outward signs of the 21st Century, beliefs and attitudes are firmly rooted in the 20th century- some would say the 19th.
But I guess we cant expect anything else so long as the Catholic Church is permitted
to brainwash our youth by its monkey-grip on education.
@Moorooka Mick:
@Síghle A Ni Ainle: This is the smartest comment you’ve made on this article, by far!
The writer’s mother Una Bean Nic Mathuna was filmed foaming at the mouth by RTE when divorce was enacted calling Michael Noonan ‘a wife swapping sodomite.’
Her Ma is hilarious.
@Colin Morris: I can only imagine the horror of being raised in that kind of toxic environment.
@DaisyChainsaw: We can’t blame the writer of this article for the life of hatred and extremism lived by her mother.
We can however judge and condemn her for her membership of Youth Defence – the extreme right catholic hate group, which harasses raped women to bully them into carrying their rapist’s foetus to term.
@Colin Morris: Seriously where the state forces rape victims to undergo abortion without their knowledge or consent. http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/ccase-mum-i-grieve-for-my-lost-baby-every-day-29241584.html
@Marion Murphy:
Do you condemn the harassment by catholic hate group Youth Defence of pregnant rape victims?
@Marion Murphy: As a “human rights activist” ,what was your reaction to a young rape victim being sectioned against her will ? Did you make any statement on this?
@Colin Morris: What has that got to do with the hypocrisy of the UN, which is what this debate is about. Can you stick to the issue and stop criticising the person.
@Colin Morris: The rotten apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
Sorry Niamh, you are completely wrong.
@Bunny Johnson: About what? Start with her quotes of various UN articles?
Well said!
To quote Niamh: ‘ Pro Choice is fine unless you’re the one chosen.’
@Michael O’Dowd: She does talk some load of hogwash!
Hey everyone! I just want to take this opportunity to remind “prolifers” that they should go to their local hospital and offer their kidneys and bone marrow for donation. After all, if you don’t donate these bodily tissues (ie if you don’t use your OWN body to sustain life) then you are DENYING life to someone, by selfish refusing to allow them to use your body to stay alive. Since everyone has a right to life, how dare you refuse these people their right to use your body to stay alive?
@QtrzRZ6r: hey everyone! Do you think that ramming your own opinion down everyone else’s throats is a successful means of debating and stating that anyone who doesn’t think the way you do is an idiot?
You should be a……dictator!
It’s a democracy, can we please have a referendum already – I’m sick to death of both sides of this debate behaving in the most despicable way.
@QtrzRZ6r: The point missed here is that when a couple have sex they need to take account of the consequences and know that a child will possibly be conceived. It is at that point that choice is available and not after conceiving a baby. All the hard cases are thrown in to create an excuse usually. Most abortions are on healthy unborn.
FFS….I am sick of hearing about this argument about abortion. If you don’t agree with abortion and you get pregnant than don’t have one. No one is going to make you . If you get pregnant and decide to have an abortion then go ahead. Its that simple. It is nobody’s else business. It time the state and the church stayed out of people’s personal lives and decisions and stop treating women like imbeciles. I am sure the circumstances of each case is different and its up to the parents to decide.
@Mary Mc Carthy: If abortion is such a personal issue then stop campaigning to have it legislated for which will force taxpayers to fund the barbaric practice against their freedom of conscience.
@Marion Murphy: Abortion is healthcare, and in civilised countries we taxpayers should be happy that our taxes go to provide everyone who needs healthcare with it.
@Marion Murphy: Oh stop with your “barbaric practice” nonsense.
Yours and my taxes already go towards safe,legal abortions in this country
Yours and my taxes already pays for a lot of women that take that journey out of this country & also goes towards paying for that very procedure…
Yours and my taxes already have gone towards paying Amanda Mellet & another over €30,000+ in compensation…
@Marion Murphy: I am not campaigning to have it legalized. I am campaigning to leave the choice up to each individual woman . Not your business what someone else’s choices are .
@Lamhfada: Not for the babies, it isn’t healthcare!
@Mary Mc Carthy: Do you think people should stop campaigning for animal rights too?
@Lamhfada: Abortion is NOT healthcare thats the same as saying eugenics is healthcare
This article is underlining the hypocrisy of the UN who is supposed to be FOR human rights but are for the basic human right to life to be denied to unborn babies. Why is there no concern or comment about this hypocrisy? The people involved in ProLife are from all and no religions; from all walks of life, all cultures, from across the political divides. There are atheists, doctors LGBT for life who support the ProLife cause. The abortion lobby whose interest in this country’s women is to legalise abortion and make Ireland a new business venture. The UN along with Amnesty, should be fighting to protect unborn children. Instead, they want us to remove from the only protection for the unborn. A very good article, Niamh. Such a pity you are not at the head of some of these organisations.
@Síghle A Ni Ainle:
She’s at the head of Youth Defence – a catholic hate group that harasses pregnant rape vicrtims, and who believe that gay people deserve death.
@Síghle A Ni Ainle: What is the going rate for an abortion in the 1st trimester ? And the margins that a clinic will make from them …I would say that ones security bill would have to be huge..and also their insurance bill …too many nutters out there ..Oh..and as the ‘Human Rights Commissioner’ of the Council of Europe said :“The thing is, international human rights standards do not protect the life of unborn children. They protect women.”
Why do ye hate pregnant women so much ?
@Francis Mc Carthy: There are so many abortions in the U.K., some women are using it as contraception, some listed on UK stats up to 8, 9 and even more times. Then there are the clinics who sell organs and body parts. I expect it is a fairly lucrative business.
@Francis Mc Carthy: but the do have the right to life for all before and after birth included in their charter. That’s hypocritical.
@Colin Morris: why are you not addressing the hypocrisy of the UN, which is the issue here.
Ye were against contraception, divorce, gay marriage, ye lost all those battles. Ye’ll lose the abortion one too!
You’re wrong, on so many levels. Your article is nothing more than a promotion of the gory details no wants to hear about, stop making women feel bad about having an abortion. You cannot understand the 100′s of reasons women seek an abortion – poor life expectancy of a child, socio-economic etc. And has other people have said, if you’re going to quote something, quote it in its ENTIRETY!
Our laws are neither modern, progressive, nor compassionate. We force women to carry unviable pregnancies, and can we blame women for not wanting to bring children into this world when so many are homeless? We’ve no consideration to women’s suffering. AND we’ve shit human rights laws;
A number of children are excluded from society, due to poor housing, health, and living standards. We stigmatise people who are different i.e Travellers and Roma children – Something that needs a robust and comprehensive strategy. We’ve terrible disability awareness in Ireland. We need a more person centred approach, one that recognises the need for inclusion, education and housing needs. We’ve yet to ratify the UNCRPD!
Our budgets only push people further into poverty, we’ve nearly 8,000 people homeless and that will only get worse. We’re one of the most corrupt little countries in the world. Singapore, a country known for poor human rights, ranks as being less corrupt than Ireland.
Ireland should hang its head in shame when we talk about our human rights laws.
Really?? What planet do you live on? Compassionate my bum! Haven’t you forgotten about the poor woman in Galway who died having a baby that she wasn’t allowed to abort? Or the countless number of girls and women having to leave for the UK and living in fear that they’ll be persecuted or arrested for seeking abortion? Especially those who were raped?
@Ruth McCann: That woman in Galway died from Sepsis which was undiagnosed until too late. Get your facts right.
@Síghle A Ni Ainle: Swallow these fact from the report to her death.
2. Failure to offer ALL management options to Ms. Halappanavar who was experiencing INEVITABLE MISCARRIAGE of an early second trimester pregnancy where the risk to her was increasing with time from the time that her membranes had ruptured.
And here is a direct link
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/media/pressrel/newsarchive/2013archive/jun13/savitareport.html
She requested an abortion she is dead because they wouldn’t. No getting around those facts
The following is a dowright lie and total BS. “That the preborn child is a human being is a matter now long established by science.”
@William Grogan:
Youth Defence have no interest in facts.
Compassion yeah
It’s good to see The Journal introducing articles that both bring balance to the abortion discussion, and highlight the abuses of human rights by UN institutions themselves (by their misleading uses of the language of human rights to coerce acceptance of abortion and their other social engineering agenda that have no actual basis in human rights law)
You should have been on the citizens assembly, to balance out the liberal agenda they were pushing. I have to laugh at some of the comments, anyone that wants to protect life is a religious freak. It seems to be that only certain sections of the community can have a say and anyone is wrong. The above article was fair and honest. You may not agree, but don’t ridicule others for their views.
Well done Niamh
@Thomas Kelly: That’s great now run along and donate your bone marrow and kidneys – use your OWN body to keep someone else alive, since you’re ‘pro-life’. You wouldn’t want to be a hypocrite now, would you? Practice what you preach – if you’re going to insist that women use their bodies to keep something else alive then you’d BETTER be doing the same ;)
@QtrzRZ6r: What a nasty and horrible comparison to make
Brilliant piece of writing.you should have been on the citizens assembly.
@Thomas Kelly: Your had lot of similarities to a Dan Brown novel very good at twisting facts with fiction
75% of foetus don’t make it to being born that makes god the worlds biggest abortionist go god
@ter:
God is a murderer.
I want Youth Defence to protest churches.
To Celtic horizon ,so you think showing posters of what actually happens baby’s after an abortion upsetting for some women .Going on your logic then all the photographs of Belsen and Austwich which were shown after the second world must have been very upsetting for theJewish people .So you might be able to explain how you show the reality of abortion with out these photos.Or how the barbarity of the butchers of Austwich and Belsen could have been explained with out photos.
@Michael O’Prey: Seriously your going to bring up that you need your head examined
@Michael O’Prey: What those monsters did during WW2 has nothing to do with what this conversation is about. Women can have vaild reasons for needing abortionsbut our bacjward system would a mother give birth to a baby that will day within days. Very big difference and even bringing up what happened in WW2 is an insult to them
What I find amazing is the zero tolerance from all those in favour of abortion .Who think that because they don’t believe in god ,or his laws then anyone who thinks abortion is murder must be religious. What narrow minded people you are that you cannot tolerate this view point. And you even have the brass neck to call your selves liberal .
@Michael O’Prey: That argument MIGHT make sense if the entire hierarchy of the Catholic Church wasn’t calling to keep the immoral ban on abortion, and if the yearly “rally for life” wasn’t a procession of rosary beads, miraculous medallions, and crucifixes.
@Michael O’Prey: I’m not sure you understand stand the meaning of zero tolerance and narrow minded. But you will pro choice want all options on the table. You will find anti choicers have far more narrow table of choices. As for zero tolerance pro choice don’t judge women on their choice and don’t wave banners of support when they do make those difficult decisions. But anti choosers will hold disgusting banners of all sorts up with no thought for what ever reason a woman has made the decision they have.
@Celtic_Horizon: if you think those banners are disgusting, why do you support this disgusting activity?
@Síghle A Ni Ainle: well there you go you just judged every woman that has ever had an abortion as disgusting even though you don’t know why, such a nice person you are.
Ever stop to think they may doing it for medical reasons.
Lets not forget what happened to Savita Halappanavar. I wonder how many Irish women have died in similar circumstances over the years and has been covered up in some manner to protect the status quo as we all know if there is one thing our politicians and professional services in this country love doing is a good cover up.
Ireland should, in fact, be commended for its Constitutional protection of the pre-born child, as per the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.
This article and all the subsequent comments are all emotive bluff and bluster, the only opinion that will matter is that expressed by the majority in a referendum..
Right on. Why murder babies when the birth rate in Europe is way below replacement. Europe is aborting itself. 30 years from now when todays feminists are old they will know what they have done.
Why are they no human rights for unborn children, you can’t have human and children rights when the unborn are human as well?
So many people here defending the UN for their attack on the eighth amendment, the same bastion of women’s rights UN just allowed Saudi Arabia into the women’s council !
Prior to any referendum, and in order to ensure that folks know what they are voting on, RTE needs to put on a ‘live’ (wrong word?) abortion. That way we can all make up our minds on the basis of facts.
The programs which accompany women to have an abortion never show the procedure. They stop, or jump over it to the aftermath.
Why? Why do TV stations never show abortions? There are hundreds if not thousands performed in Britain every day. We have lots of people telling us they are a good thing. Would be easy to show one. Easy to preserve anonymity also.
Come on, RTE!
So Celtic Horizon you think what happened in the death camps of Europe has nothing to do with the murder of unborn children. May I remind you that Hitler was a great supporter of Margaret Sanger ,who was a great believer in eugenics and of course abortion.
@Michael O’Prey: Like I said you are sick and need your head examined
@Celtic_Horizon: “Like I said you are sick and need your head examined”
That is not an argument, its just childish
@Caoimhín Mac Caisín: And coming out with comments about the atrocities of WW2 as a comparison to this conversation is ok by your standards. Thank you for letting us know your standards
Most abortions are because it is taught the child will have a disability, I wonder who else wanted rid of the disabled ? ( give you a guess he was Austrian and his initials were A.H )
@Caoimhín Mac Caisín: Since when is fatal abnormalities a disability! Last time I checked it was FATAL.
To Celtic Horizon I wonder why you don’t come out and show us your real name . Would I be right in thinking you are ashamed of what you are defending?
aug 19, 2017 Abortion may become a trend in India too as Leftists are propagating.
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Many of the concerned groups who purport to represent people with similar outlooks are lying, or at best misleading, their views extreme to put it mildly. And they seem to have considerable amounts of funding behind them. They make incorrect claims regarding the United Nations, who have only said Ireland should change it’s laws with regard to abortion and fatal fetal abnormalities, as they’re too restrictive.
So, people who feel morally obliged to campaign against abortion are being led by extremists with outlandish views who have no qualms with lying and exaggerating to justify their harsh religious views. For them the end justifies the means, but just how far are they prepared to go…???
Many of the concerned groups who purport to represent people with similar outlooks are lying or at best misleading them, their views extreme, to put it mildly. And they seem to have large sums of money behind them. They make incorrect claims regarding the United Nations, who have only said that Ireland should change it’s laws with regard to abortion and fatal fetal abnormalities as it’s too restrictive.
So, people who feel morally obliged to campaign against abortion are being led by extremists with outlandish views who have no issue with lying and exaggerating to justify their harsh religious views. For them the end justifies the means, but how far are they prepared to go…???
have your say