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I’VE ALWAYS ASSOCIATED cricket with acute pain. My first memory of that association dates back to winter 1977, when I was dozing through fourth class at the Harold Boys. Mr Halpin was winding the day down by reading us a newspaper report about freak weather conditions in Australia.
“It says here that ‘Brisbane has been battered by hail-stones the size of cricket balls’. Think about that boys.”
Half-asleep, my hand shot up, almost involuntarily. “I didn’t know crickets had balls, sir.”
Thwack. Bamboo cane. Cricket equals pain.
The second memory is of a freak accident with a cricket bat while playing rounders. My friend ‘Chun’ – a huge, Sumo-wrestler-shaped boy of 11 – decided to do some batting practice while I was sliding, heels-first into final ‘base’. Whenever I see anyone playing ‘paper, rock, scissors’, I am reminded of the ‘CRUMP’ sound his bat (the rock) made as it smacked into my crotch (the open scissors). My howls could be heard several roads away. I still wince when I hear the sound of a wicket being knocked over.
Recalling my time as a sports hack with the Irish Press also brings back memories of cricket and pain – the pain of having to watch it. It’s so boring it makes pitch-and-putt look like ice hockey.
I didn’t give a Rubberbandit’s curse when I heard Ireland had beaten England at the Cricket World Cup. ‘West Brits beating the actual Brits at a boring garrison game,’ I thought. Big deal.
It turns out, it IS a big deal. Ireland is suddenly full of cricket fans (and they’re not all west Brits). The newspapers were full of it: ‘Cinderella story… greatest sporting achievement by anyone, anywhere … just what the country needed …’ Not since Mary Byrne lost X-Factor has there been a greater “shot in the arm” for Paddyland.
I don’t buy into that, but I can understand it. The players excelled at their sport and should be applauded… EVEN THOUGH IT’S ONLY CRICKET.
It’s not like Ireland just found €100bn down the back of the couch.
Along with the applause there was another response: the ‘any excuse to give two fingers to the Brits’ reaction. Across the twitterverse and in the bars of Old Erin, there was an indulgence of the ‘acceptable’ racism we sometimes display to our nearest neighbours. The ‘800 years of oppression’ crap spouted by Six-Pint-Republicans. One correspondent told me he “disliked all sport, but liked seeing English people getting upset”.
I find this attitude even more tedious than watching cricket. This wasn’t the normal rivalry of neighbouring teams. This was stupid and childish. You’d swear the Black and Tans were still rampaging around the countryside.
Many people tend to forget that when they rant about the English they are referring to our largest ethnic minority. Census 2006 shows that 204,746 Irish residents were born in England/Wales. The Traveller community, by comparison, numbers only 20,000.
They tend to forget that the Brits/English are our biggest trading partners and also our top tourists. According to Tourism Ireland, 52% of 2009’s foreign visitors came from across the Irish Sea. The English like it here. (After 800 years, they’re bound to, I suppose). The Six-Pint-Republicans also conveniently forget that the Irish are one of the biggest ‘ethnic’ groups in Britain. We make up 1.2% of the population (Census 2001).
Emigration is forcing that number up. We’re welcome in the home of the Ould Enemy. The Irish are at the forefront of British business. We speak the same language and share the same culture. Relations have become so normalised that the Shinners are in power with the Brits. The Queen is coming over for her first visit.
Here’s a question: how many Irish people will be glued to their tellies for that visit and the royal wedding? Yet, there are still those who profess a hatred for the ‘Ould Enemy’.
I’d love to bring the Queen on a tour of Ireland. I’d take her down the High Street. We have ‘High Streets’ now, according to our fashion writers. Irish towns always used to have ‘main streets’.
We could go window-shopping in some of our traditional Irish clothing outlets: Top Shop, River Island, Next, Debenhams, Marks and Spencers…
“Where are the flat caps and tweed waistcoats?” Ma’am might ask. “You Paddies dress just like my lot.”
“Begob, I never noticed that before, Ma’am.”
Later, we could grab a ready meal and head home to watch some telly. “Marks and Sparks or Tesco, Ma’am?”
“What? You eat the same food as us?”
“Yes ma’am. We even call your ‘Great English Breakfast’ our ‘Great Irish Breakfast’. And we love fish and chips.”
Over supper, I’ll channel hop. “X-Factor, Coronation Street or EastEnders? Perhaps some Paxman, ma’am?”
“You watch the same TV as us?”
I will explain that Christmas wouldn’t have been Christmas without Morecambe and Wise. I’d list the comedies we’ve enjoyed down the years. How we laughed, like the English, at Basil’s exploits with David Kelly in Fawlty Towers. How we blubbed at the death of Victor Meldrew. I’ll even explain how we identify with English soap characters.
“Because we share the same day-to-day problems as them, Ma’am. Now, stop clipping your toenails, like a good woman, and pass the gin.”
The irony of this week’s Brit-bashing is that Ireland is, in many ways, becoming more ‘British than Britain itself’.
We enjoy its popular culture, while at the same time retaining an inverted snobbery towards a country that is our best friend in Europe.
Look around: we asked an Englishman, Ian Ritchie, to design the Dublin Spire – the symbol of our capital city. We even follow the same soccer teams as the English, referring to Liverpool etc as “we”. We hired an Englishman, Jack Charlton, to lead our Boys in Green to soccer glory. Most of his ‘Irish’ boys – Cascarino, Townsend etc – were Brits. We’ve asked an English company, LexMC, to do half of Foras na Gaeilge’s new Irish dictionary. ‘Brit’ influences are everywhere – although we’d like to deny them.
If you put the past behind us, the English are the closest thing we have to cousins. They can be annoying, but they’re still family. The xenophobic ‘Ould Enemy’ cack spluttered over a cricket game goes to show how immature and hypocritical a country we can be. “We stuck it to the Brits. At cricket!! Remember 1798!!”
This wasn’t Euro ’88 – only seven years on from the Hunger Strikes. This was cricket, a sport which only reached maturity here after the Celtic Tiger period.
Racism is racism, however mild it may seem. We (correctly) complained about it for years. The kind of ‘acceptable’ racism we aim at England won’t lead to pogroms of people named Nigel and Doris – but it’s still prejudice.
The odd thing is that the English don’t get this. They actually LIKE us. The Germans and French are sick of us, but the Brits still want to be friends. They’re even lending us money. When, after 90 years of independence and peace in the North, will we forgive them for the past?
Somewhere in our national psyche, the cricket victory may have stirred up echoes of ‘If you can’t beat them, join them’. Perhaps, in our subconscious, this has been changed to ‘If you CAN beat them, you won’t have to re-join them’.
With the current state of affairs, re-joining the Commonwealth may someday be on the agenda. I’m not suggesting it, but who knows?
It might be worth considering that the next time someone asks “what have the Brits ever done for us?”
Hang on, didn’t they teach us how to play bloody cricket? There goes that pain again…
Email dave@davekenny.com or follow him on Twitter.
Fine Gael Senator, enough said. The British can wear the poppy all they want, asking irish people to do so is whitewashing our shared history. Would the senator wear a Lily at Easter?
@Lou Sypher: Didn’t bother reading the article then?
@Lou Sypher: as celtic fans sing ,stick your poppy up your a–e.
@Clifford Brennan: didn’t bother trying to understand what I wrote… I’ve no problem with the British people wearing the poppy but ignoring the unpleasant aspects of our shared history is a dangerous road to travel upon.
@Lou Sypher: did you even read what he wrote. Godshite…
@Lou Sypher: how about this for airbrushing. Most of the Irish that fought in world war i did so because we were promised home rule. They went and died for there country so we could govern for ourselves. They went as hero’s but after 1916 happened they were traitors. All of a sudden the Irish that went to fight for our freedom for home rule were branded traitors the ones that did make it home could never speak of there time’s in the trenches of Europe as us great Irish people that we were would just brush them under the carpet. Funny how history keeps repeating itself in this little island.
@Lou Sypher: why don’t
@Lou Sypher: why don’t
@DaisyMay: why don’t we have one single article on all the reasons we shouldn’t wear a poppy or would the Journal servers not be able to hold that much data.
@Lou Sypher: the easter lily has become the symbol of gangsterism and illegal activity including murder, extortion, fuel laundering and counterfeiting. An elected representative who wore it in the Dail or Seanad would be offering a grave insult to the house.
@Celtic_Horizon: it is true that many of those who went in 1914 believed they were helping secure Home Rule. However as early as 1915 and the formation of the Coalition Government including leading Unionists such as Carson and Craig it was clear that Home Rule was not going to happen. So those who were encouraged to join up throughout the rest of the war by Redmond knew it wasn’t going to happen.
@Lou Sypher: “elbows” Frankie Feighan has no problem wearing it, spouting on about close neighbours of his who died in the war, – no they weren`t close neighbours frankie, they were long gone before you came on the scene.
@Lou Sypher: British soldiers marched into every country known to man and butchered the natives. and now they want us to celebrate with them?
@Peter Kiernan: The day I start taking advice from Celtic Fans will be a sad one !!
@DaisyMay:….there are just too many reasons not to wear this British legion’s so-called “Irish poppy”.
One horrible image for me, and it’s just one of many, is those British squaddies pumping bullet after bullet into the body of that poor woman laying on the street in Ballymurphy….and then preventing a St Johns ambulance crew going to her aid…sorry but I will NEVER wear this badge.
@Matt McNamara: advice was not mentioned.
@Matt McNamara: You’re a big boy, I’m sure you can make up your own mind on the issue..
@Celtic_Horizon: I suspect that while many did go on the promise of home rule, (which was a con, the British were not going to allow it) most went for economic reasons. World War 1 was a terrible waste of life and should only serve to teach us about the futility of war. Most of those soldiers were cannon fodder for the last gasp fight to maintain the old world order. Most had no understanding why they were sacrificed, only that there was allegedly something noble and good about sacrificing your life, or someone else’s for your country, aka your ruler. The most intelligent way to commemorate their slaughter would be to do everything we can to prevent wars, and we are failing dismally in that. A white poppy, mourning all the slain, would be the most appropriate, imo
@John Mulligan: the Easter lily is worn to remember our republican dead and I proudly wear one every year.
It has been slagged and run down by the very same west Brits in politics and media who now wish us to wear a poppy.
@Pádraig Ó Braonáin: and the atrocities that they are committing every day in far flung regions, this isn’t some legacy issue. That money is supporting wars across the globe today.
@Brendan Greene: So you are happy to also airbrush that part of our history because it doesn’t suit the status quo. Because they didn’t stay and fight at home they should be punished. Regardless of circumstances of the time it doesn’t change the fact most of them did it for us on the promise of home rule
@Clifford Brennan: And learn what from that article nothing of historical value in it? ridiculous comment. Why a poppy? why not a white poppy? These soldiers are remembered have you or that senator been to Glasnevin lately I wager no, to the War memorial park? to the many websites dedicated to the Irish regiments? And part of that rememberance has to be the innocent victims in Dublin of British army killers on the streets of Dublin no matter what their nationality is. The North King street killers were no soldiers they were butchers.
@Lou Sypher: No, as he stated on Claire Byrne the other night.
@Adam O’Donoghue: Well said Adam.
@John Mulligan: Rather like the poppy then?
@Clifford Brennan : Certainly read that propaganda piece by Feighan, Certainly some form of remembrance should be made to remember the thousands of Irishmen who were murdered in an Impearlist War. The myth of freedom of small nations, a rallying call by powers that kept small nations in servitude. Little Belgium at the time was raping the Congo. The only winners in that murderous War were the financiers, arms industry, not the millions who died for a lie. Wonder did Feighan pay for the sending of these badges to every councillor and politician.. or did the taxpayers pay for it.
@John Mulligan:
Then maybe we should rescue the lily. It’s a nice symbol especially since popular opinion is not to use the shamrock
@Pádraig Ó Braonáin: Let’s West an Easter Lilly for the 400 Catholics murder by the IRA .
@John Mulligan: That’s saying a lot for wearing a poppy. A symbol of murder and Impearlism carried out by British forces to this day. Surely you can recall the Dublin Monaghan bombings carried out with the involvement of Britain intelligence the murders of civilians by British forces on Bloody Sunday. The murder of civilians in Ballymurphy. Your comment very selective indeed.
@Paul Smith: Or wear the poppy to commemorate the Dublin Monaghan bombings carried out with the blessing of Britain intelligence, The murder of civilians on Bloody Sunday , The murder of civilians in Ballymurphy , The murders carried out by loyalists supported by British forces. That’s what the poppy represents.
@Donal Desmond: The poppy was chosen as the symbol to remember the war dead long before the NI troubles . The IRA has turn the Lilly into a symbol of terrorism .
@Paul Smith: The poppy to many people represents not the so called remembrance of men who died in a futile Impearlist war , but a symbol of British terrorism. Revisionist like our politicians seek to rewrite history. Wear a Easter Lily with pride Not a poppy representing a long lost murderous empire.
Irish Remembrance needs a symbol 100% unrelated to the poppy. I’d urge the senator to walk through some loyalist neighbourhoods in Belfast and see how the use poppy imagery. That includes ‘Lest We Forget’. Also the Royal British Legion should get zero input to it.
There are a substantial number of Irish citizens living in the north who look to Dublin, and this beating of the poppy drum while ignoring its change in meaning over the generations is alienating.
Every poppy you buy funds the soldiers who spent time in the north, and Britain’s more recent overseas adventures, in which their conduct was hardly covered in glory.
Don’t wear or buy a poppy. Light a candle, wear a shamrock, whatever.
@Crom Cruach: That’s not correct. For every poppy you buy in Ireland, funds stay in the country, and the money is used to help Irish ex-servicemen and women. It’s not the same as supporting the British poppy appeal.
@Tom Tom: That’s not true:
The Shamrock Poppy FUNDS the Irish Branch of the ROYAL BRITISH LEGION.
To benefit from funds raised you are either “serving, have served or are the dependent or carer of someone who has served in the UK’s Armed Forces”
That’s from their website.
You are funding former members of the British Army who live in Ireland.
@Bob Earner: the key is British soldiers, why not French? German? what is this special affection for the British army? We are Ireland, this is Ireland we respect all our sons and daughters who fought abroad and at home no matter for whom, US, South America, the hundreds of thousands that died fighting for the French, Spanish etc what is so special about the British? explain it to me, convince me why as a historian I should afford the British a special place?
@Tom Tom: Ex servicemen of FOREIGN ARMY. What is wrong with you?
Much of this money finds its way to loyalist paramilitaries
@Teresa Ryan: The Royal Legion itself states that money raised in Ireland supports ex servicemen from IRELAND who fought in that army, but not just them. They help the ones left behind, the families who didn’t fight with that army. There’s nothing wrong with me Teresa. Have you a link to back up that statement about loyalists getting the money?
@Austin Rock: Great observation Austin, unfortunately it will NOT be responded to simply because when all of the brainwashed above consider your comment they will realise they have been brainwashed!!
@Austin Rock:
” We are Ireland, this is Ireland we respect all our sons and daughters who fought abroad and at home no matter for whom”.
Seriously, I think the “for whom” part is pretty important when, you remember that we were still enslaved by the british at the time of WW1
Putting a poppy on the Shamrock is a an insult to the Irish people who have lost there lives to the British forces have we forgot who caused the Famine .
@Donal Carey: there was no famine it was genocide
@Donal Carey: Why?
@Donal Carey: The brits can have the shamrock too if they want it. only another symbolism of catholic christian bull.
@Donal Carey: A feeble attempt to hoodwink the Irish people.
@Donal Carey: yes.mr potato head
@Donal Carey: yes.mr potato head
@Donal Carey: The shoot to kill policy and those in Derry who were tortured by the British army and not to forget the Dublin and Monaghan bombing as the British army helped them but history is selective especially by those who try to rewrite history…
Never
@Peter Shannon: just sell it in D4 D6 and RTE.and certain big farmers.
Poppy has no place in Irish society. We’ve had enough of the British army’s butchery. Will the brits wear a Lilly at Easter?? We’re not British, we’re not Saxon, we’re not English. To celebrate British soldiers is an insult to our patriot dead and those who suffered in RECENT history at the hand of them in the occupied counties
@Seanniemac1983: : We’re Irish, and proud we are to be. So, fuc£ your Union Jack, we want our country back. Get out British b@st@rds, leave us be!
@Cheapy Ryan: lovely to see such maturity being brought to this debate.
@Jumperoo: Here’s a bit more: bite me!
@Cheapy Ryan: Chomp chomp. Munch munch. Chew. Spit. Too bitter!
@Cheapy Ryan: he says as he uses the symbol for sterling….
It’s a British symbol. We are not British. It would be like us asking British ex-pats here to wear the Easter Lilly. Absolutely ridiculous, but typical FG trying to lick the British boot. I had 3 relatives fight in WW1, one of whom died in 1917. I will remember them in my own way without having a symbol of the British Legion on my chest.
@P Quinn: spot on! We are Irish and independent. We don’t have to bow to any foreign power. We look after our own! We don’t have any homeless lying and dying in our streets, or hundreds of people unable to access a hospital bed or medical services, or schools without teachers or inadequate buildings, vast areas of the country without broadband, or corruption in our public services. We don’t need to sell our souls and independence to a European administration. We don’t need the €60 billion of commerce with the UK .
Yes! We are independent.
I’ll gladly buy and wear a poppy not to support war but simply to honour and respect the thousands of young dead Irish who for whatever reason were slaughtered in that horrible war.
@P Quinn: I think it was a Canadian or Anzac symbol, but since it been hijacked by British nationalism, it’s not for us. The hybrid is even the wrong way round, shamrock over poppy might be a little more palatable, but not much. A better symbol would be an unclaimed one, that remembers all soldiers of all sides in that horrific war.
@P Quinn: Except though, it’s not a British symbol?
@P Quinn: Actually it’s not a British symbol. It was chosen cause it grew out of the ground where dead soldiers are buried . It’s use by many countries across the world and doesn’t belong to the British .
@P Quinn: Actually it’s not a British symbol. It was chosen cause it grew out of the ground where dead soldiers are buried . It’s use by many countries across the world and doesn’t belong to the British . I
This is they type of man who wants us to wear a poppy https://www.joe.ie/news/video-fine-gael-td-elbows-pensioner-in-the-ribs-in-front-of-taoiseach-who-ignores-the-whole-thing-467829
@P Quinn: Thanks for sharing. I hope everyone watches this.
@P Quinn: I haven’t seen that before but I’m not at all surprised, blue shirt thuggery is alive and well
@P Quinn: thanks forgot that how did he know that pensioner wasn’t in British army. He should of been done for assault.
@P Quinn: wow, not a nice thing to do
@P Quinn: lest we forget!
The journal love they’re little agenda’s.its almost an orchestrated thing by the media to make us poppy loving Brits.
If any person wants to wear the flower then wear it but dont bore us with the continuous push to stop being irish.ask frank when is he going to remember his fg friends who died fighting for Franco.
@matthew o reilly: Perhaps that’s what the sham (rock) poppy is for?
Or to commemorate the British Forces killers who started the Troubles in 1969?
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/21/ira-british-army_n_4314960.html
Where does the money for the Shamrock Poppies go to? Who does it benefit?
@Seán Ó hAnnracháin: My question also.
@Seán Ó hAnnracháin: Royal British Legion. Subsidised pints for squaddies who can talk about what ****s all the Irish are.
@Seán Ó hAnnracháin: British legion.
@Seán Ó hAnnracháin: benefits ex servicemen in Ireland.
@John Mulligan: servicemen who served the British army not the Irish army. Cold chips for them
Some of our people joined a foreign army 100 years ago and got themselves killed. There was no good guys or bad guys in that war. I’m trying to figure out why we should care. What about all the Irish that died due to the countless rebellions over the last few hundred years? The Irishmen that fought in the American civil war? Hell, for the French foreign legion? In the greater context of history why is there a focus on this? The numbers? How recent it is?
The red weed to me is a sign of British oppression. No way should it be worn, of a person wants to wear tbat is their own choice. Too me it is supporting those thugs on Bloody Sunday,Ballymurphy Massacree, involvement on numerous murders and assassinations on the island of Ireland, and involvment in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings.
Jog on frank. They enlisted cause the country was a back water of the British empire and Dublin was the biggest slum in Europe.
I’ll wear it when Franky ‘elbows’ Feighan wears an Easter Lilly
Well said Senator, long overdue the sacrifice of the 50,000 Irish who died during WW1 was remembered. They died to protect small countries, for democracy, and in a democracy people should be able to choose to wear a poppy or not, without fear of intimidation
@Stephen Kearon: stephen they werent fighting for democracy it was an imperial war fought by cousins that killed millions.& fighting for small countries like Belgium who at the time were cutting the hands of small children in the congo.
For man that likes to say he’s republican you would fit in with the edl.
@Stephen Kearon: They bloody well didn’t. Read some real history, not some Tommy comic. Poor men died in a rich man’s war. They were not fighting for democracy, they were fighting in the dying breath of empires. These empires killed millions, ruined lives throughout Europe. It’s a fallacy promoted by the poppy cult that this was a war of good versus evil. It was a war by rich colonial industrialists, trying to keep their elite status.
@Stephen Kearon: where’s the intimidation? All I see here is folks commenting that they wouldn’t wear a symbol of the British legion on their lapel.
Ultimately it’s up to others, but those commenters can voice their opinion that an Irishman who wears a poppy is a traitor to their history, it’s their right to say so. No intimidation or threats do I see.
@Stephen Kearon: I think you are watching too much downton abbey. Try a real history book.
@Stephen Kearon: You’re free to choose to wear the poppy Stephen, I’m free to think you’re a ____. I give you a member of “The Republican Party” folks! http://www.anphoblacht.com/files/images/620/2013/pg21-2.jpg
@Stephen Kearon: I Wouldn`t expect anything less from you Kearon, the man who Fianna Fáil drummed out of their party over his filthy remarks about dead Irishmen, you belong in the sewer along with your poppy
@Stephen Kearon: I had 8 family served and three were killed. Most of the eight were not idealists but were professional soldiers and knew the risks. I personally will wear a shamrock poppy but as far as I am concerned the Senator was out of order mentioning it. If he went as asked people to consider it.
@Stephen Kearon: To protect small countries, sorry that was the propaganda, The reality was a jostle for power between different branches of an “Imperial,” family. The soldiers who died were cannon fodder . There was nothing glorious about the war. It was an insane bloodbath.
@Stephen Kearon: Democracy! You’re having a laugh. December 1918, SF won the majority of seats running on a campaign of Irish independence. What happened next was a demolition of the right of Irish people to determine their own futures.
Sometimes I despair for Ireland and its people and their inability to think critically.
Armistice day in Britain is like a world convention for the weapons and war industry and is a celebration of murder and death. And it’s no surprise to see a Fine Gael person call for this, next thing they’ll be asking us to join NATO and an EU army……oh wait.
@Derek Durkin: you don’t believe that myth?
@John Mulligan: myth????….its called reality mate. You should try it sometime.
We are supposed to take advice from a man who was caught on video elbowing an elderly person in the face? The best part of the Internet is nothing is ever lost. Google it.
A disgusting suggestion by a man who hero worshipped the last Fine Gael leader and wasn’t slow with throwing an old man out of the way in the persuit of brown nosing.The man is a disgrace to the Irish people.
We’re all paying for his suits. What does he care that people can’t afford to put more holes in their clothing at his request?
Frank you could assault people with your elbow until they wear one
Many a Irish person went to work in the munitions factories in Britain to get money to feed their family’s ,where do they stand as human beings and many a northern Irish catholic went to fight in World War One for financial reasons and to day many a Irishman has and is joining the British army for their own reasons nothing to do with disloyalty to their country ,some people just want to be soldiers .Personally it’s not for me to dictate what people do
@FlopFlipU: Why would an Irishman join the British and not the Irish army, if he wants to be a soldier? I would very much question their motivation.
@Zmeevo Libe: you dont get to kill people in the Irish army
@matthew o reilly: you don’t get to kill in the British army either . The chances of a soldier finding himself in combat is very rare .
@Zmeevo Libe: well I don’t know but I would think Is is for the adventure and experience and the pay ,they don’t have to live in their cars like our lads do or so I am told .Many Irish families landed in Liverpool in the 50s and 60 S and to this day and made their future there and some joined the army are you telling me they are all bad people grow up move on .I know family’s that broke up over that kind of thinking and died never getting together again and their children meet up after and became good friend’s luckily
Frank Feighan – the man who assaults old people?
Where can I buy one. I live in Cork. Both my Grandfathers fought in WW1.
War monger
Feighan hoping to get his seat back next election ,hoping to get whatever Protestant vote there is in Roscommon and scape in last without reaching the quota.
Why not just go back to wearing the white poppy as this was the original symbol of remember everyone killed in conflict not just the winners or those fighting for Britain. If people want to wear it leave them wear it and if they don’t, it shouldn’t be a big deal and why are Irish people becoming obsessed with this nonsense over the rights or wrongs of wearing of it year on year?
A lot is forgotten about the reasons why Irish men joined up in 1914…My grandfather and his four brothers joined up because they believed they were fighting for the freedom of small nations including their own. They had previously joined the Irish volunteers in 1913 and bought the line being sold at the time that Britain would grant home rule if Irish men fought for them. The truth is this didn’t happen and the Irish delegation were refused entry to the Paris peace talks in 1919 after Sinn Fein won 80% of the vote in all 32 countries in the 1918 general election and the first shots were fired in 1919 in the war of independence and the rest is history.
Next he’ll suggest we join the commonwealth or something.
@BK: https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/should-ireland-rejoin-the-commonwealth-2837823-Jun2016/
“Is it now time for Ireland to consider rejoining the Commonwealth?
Senator Frank Feighan says rejoining the Commonwealth will promote Ireland’s values to a global audience. ”
“Frank Feighan was nominated by Taoiseach Enda Kenny to Seanad Eireann last month. He is a former TD for Roscommon–South Leitrim. ”
https://www.thesun.ie/news/2724365/commonwealth-ireland-eamon-de-valera/
@BK: “Senator Frank Feighan insists becoming a member of the group — which is headed up by the Queen of England — must form part of any future talks about a united Ireland.”
https://www.thesun.ie/news/2724365/commonwealth-ireland-eamon-de-valera/
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/758840/Ireland-joining-Commonwealth-Politician-campaign
Until the likes of Feehan wear a lily they’ve no right to be pushing the poppy on anyone
@Breandán O Conchúir: F.G. seems to me to be a sleeper for MI5 with the bull they come out with. They want to be more English than the English in a lot of things but I put that down to how the class system in England inspires them???
Just f.”$ off Frank and close down some more hospitals like a good loyal blueshirt
Mr Feighan are you for real ?
Will Arlene Foster and Tessie May wear a shamrock ☘️ at Easter to commemorate those they slaughtered in the 1916 Rising ?
Or wear it in their lapel for St Patrick’s Day?
I hope all those poor men who lost their lives in both world wars rest in peace , British, Irish or French …. but diluting the shamrock is like asking us to feature a miniature Union Jack on our flag ….
Why should Irish people commemorate a war that was engineered by England and France to curb the industrial might of Germany under the guise of protecting Belgium..? Belguim at this time was one of the most oppressive colonial powers operating in Africa this was the reason, Roger Casement was sent to the Belgian Congo by the British government on a fact- finding mission,as they were considering taking action against Belgium or so they said. The Irishmen who signed up to fight did not have a clue as to what they were fighting for and that is the reason the First World War should be forgotten.
“Thankfully, I believe we have arrived at a point where the poppy is no longer a controversial symbol in this country”
What nonsense. I haven’t seen one person wearing one yet, shows how out of touch this man is.
State off that yoke
How much are the British paying you to proprogate this nonsense? Did you pay for all those poppies for your pals in the Dáil, or were they ‘gifted’ to you?
Shame on you for encouraging the Irish people to financially support a foreign army. As you are well aware, all monies raised from the sale of poppies goes to servicemen who have served in a foreign army. The British Legion will say all monies raised in Ireland, stay in Ireland. Just happens much of it ends up supporting illegal loyalist orgamizations.
Given your views, I really wonder just how far the British state has infiltrated the Seanad and Dáil and how far they have infiltrated the Irish state?
You stated on Claire Byrne the other night that you would never wear an Easter Lily because of republicianism. Yet you sit in the Seanad and previously sat in the Dáil, both of which were founded by republicans. Or as you call it, violent republicianism.
Yet you have no difficulty in supporting violent imperialism and worse, supporting a foreign military who have into recent times, murdered Irish citizens.
As a member of the Oireachtas, how much support do you give to the brave men and women serving in our Defence Forces? I’ve yet to hear you say anything positive about them or in support of them?
As a public representative, your financial support and the encouragement of a foreign military to the detriment of our own Defence Forces is treasonous.
Shame on you!
Given that British people , fought and died for Irish freedom – would he expect the British prime minister , indeed the monarch to wear the Easter lily, in recognition of the great sacrifice made by some British people for Irish independence?
Also could we try to shame british people living here into wearing the lily- call them names , death threats , that sort of thing……..?
Feighan has a lot of courage to lead the debate on this, although somebody needs to do it. We can’t consign the memory of thousands of young Irish men to the dustbin of history by describing the horrendous manner of their deaths as just ‘taking the Queen’s shilling’.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this debate however, isn’t it wonderful to see the apoplexy it generates among the barstool republicans and Wolfe Tones political analysts?
@John Mulligan: the whole circus show of the poppy has exploded in the last few years, and to be honest I’ve friends in England that are getting fed up with it now. Its a dog and pony show that glorified WW1 that wasn’t about good v evil and instead was fought between spoiled silver spoone suckling empires and weapons dealers. It’s tragic how many Irish died and I’m sure they will be remembered for being used as cannon fodder by the brits, but wearing some poppy and calling people bar stool republicans cos they find it all a bit distasteful is exactly the kinda attitude thats leading more and more to criticize the whole poppy debate
@Tomás Ó Tnúthail: the Belgians are still grateful that other countries came to.the aid of their small nation at the time. I lost relatives in the battle for Passendale, and I knew two old men who survived Ypres. The horrors suffered by all of these men, and their lonesome deaths in the most terrifying circumstances shouldn’t be cast aside and described as being in some way anti-Irish.
Feighan is doing the right thing in creating a debate around this. He shows courage and vision that is lacking in most politicians.
@John Mulligan: good man Frank you didnt take long to respond…..
@John Mulligan: Former FG TD Paddy Harte who died last year went on about the poppy every November for about 25 years. Feighan last through the gate again
@John Mulligan: We have no difficulty in confining the millions of famine dead and countless refugees to the dustbin of history. There was only 75 years between the famine and WW1.
In the decades after the famine, over 6 million Irish emigrated, we’ve confined them too to the dustbin of history.
Where we are at the minute is a hierarchy of Irish dead?
@John Mulligan: Yea, the same Belgium who had its own “Free State” in Africa: https://allthatsinteresting.com/king-leopold-ii-congo
“With the field cleared of rivals, King Leopold II reorganized his mercenaries into a ruthless group of occupiers called the Force Publique and set them to enforcing his will across the colony…
Men who failed to meet their ivory and gold quota even once would face mutilation, with hands and feet being the most popular sites for amputation. If the man could not be caught, or if he needed both hands to work, Forces Publique men would cut the hands off of his wife or children…
At the time of the 1924 census, that figure had fallen to 10 million. Central Africa is so remote, and the terrain is so difficult to travel across, that no other European colonies reported a major refugee influx. The perhaps 10 million people who disappeared in the colony during this time were most likely dead.”
@Joe O’riordan: I don’t speak for Frank Feighan, and you obviously didn’t read my post either. I said he is right in creating a debate around this issue.
@John Mulligan: What a closed mind you have. Most of us are republicans because we live in a republic. DOH!
Yet to hear one good reason why we cannot have our own comneration without having to knowtow to the British first.
I’m objecting because the poppy no longer represents WW1 & 2 dead, but all British soldiers in every conflict Britain has ever fought in. The means the Boer Wars, Ireland, India, Kenya, Malaysia and the rest and the millions of deaths.
Read the British Legion’s own website to find out what the poppy is about.
The real conversation we need to have is why republicianism was good in the 1920s but not later. Is it because, we are still not a republic given out treatment of women and children and creating a theocracy instead of a republic.
Wonder will the media and RTE and the media will ever have that discussion?
My Grandfather fought in Flanders in WW1, he was only 15.
After the war, he never heard of or had any need to wear a ‘poppy’.
His medals for the ‘War to end all Wars’ were enough.
Frank did you attend the National Famine memorial this year?
“commissioned by the Limerick branch of the Royal British Legion in 2014″
Where does the money paid for these badges go? That will determine what it stands for.
For people who want to wear something to remember WW1 but feel uncomfortable or against the poppy symbol why not wear the Bleuet. It is the French blue corn flower symbol to remember their WW1 dead. The Irish were a volunteer force in WW1, what ever the individual soldiers reasons, they mostly fought and died in France protecting the French people from the invading Central powers. That symbol remembers the war and their sacrifice and not the army they fought under.
These West Brits need to learn to stop trying to colonise us. Shove your poppy up your hole.
F#%÷ off Frank
Will yez ever just belt up. It’s a free country —-Every body or any body is entitled to wear a poppy if they so choose without seeking anyone’s permission! It’s called freedom>
@John Mc Donagh: Just do long as they understand that they are supporting a foreign army to the detriment of our Defence Forces.
@Teresa Ryan: O.K If I decide that I’d like to wear one I’ll ask YOUR permission.
Have these guys no work to do , who cares about poppys or shamrocks. There are people dying on the streets the health system is in crisis thousands are homeless, people cant afford to live and these tossers are arguing about poppys amd shamrocks. Go do some work earn your colossal salary. wear a poppy a shamrock a crosa between the two , wear none stick a holly bush up your jacksey nobody cares. Do your job for a changr or else ship out .
I am so sick and infuriated with this poppy nazism.
It’s not a symbol of peace and it’s not a symbol of remembrance. It glorifies a false history.
If the rest of Europe wore a symbol, I’d be happy to.
But you don’t see them wearing it or being vilified for it.
To fund the Royal British Legion? Not a bloody chance!
@⚡ Seánie ⚡: http://tinyurl.com/ybxlfbcl
@ObsidianShine: The British army are doing plenty of illegal nasty ops in Africa these days like a mercenary armies for those evil leaders but Africa is full of raw materials. The poppy would represent those fallen ones who die in these mercenary ops as well?
During the Iraqi war the British army troops were going into Shia areas dressed up as Sunni Muslims firing at people and then going into Sunni areas dressed up as Shia muslims firing at people. The only reason it made the news was the fact that they were killed and it came to light then. Many just see the British army as this worldwide and that is nothing to celebrate. Remember the Black and Tans. Would any real Irish person wear a poppy for them as well?
I am with Robert Fisk on this poppy rubbish. It’s wreaks of sanctimony. If we truly respected these dead we wouldn’t keep rushing to repeat the same mistakes. People are being emotionally bullied into wearing them. Sad that it’s taking off over here. Before we know it we will be expected to give troops at the airport a standing ovation.
Create our own symbol that supports our army members and families
@Eddie Mc Keown: But we here always ran after those who have money and power from taking off our caps to rich families to landlords now to our politicians kissing the feet of European lobbyists, bankers and the IMF, nothing ever changes…
Noone should feel pressured into wearing any specific item, it’s a personal choice that shouldn’t be highlighted. The poppy whether intertwined or not in a shamrock is meant to represent every Bristish solier which includes the black and tans. Wearing a poppy is forgetting about millions of needless death in Ireland over 800 years. Where’s the flower to commemorate them
Piss off Frank. Good lad
Honestly I could care less about the Irish me who fought in WW1, they where all fools in my opinion
When honest decent people didnt want to fight their imperial wars, they would be bullied, abused and given white feathers and told they were cowards. Today, as we have seen with James McLean, if you dont wear their poppies, you can still expect to be bullied and abused. Forget about the Brit Legion in Ireland – If Leo and his Government were genuine and impartial – they might at least come up with a badge that included a Lily and poppy side by side. But then again -Pigs might Fly!
@Kieran Mccarthy: If James McClean decided he wanted to wear a poppy he would be bullied by the people of Ireland like McGregor was . Are you saying you would respect his wish to wear a poppy if he chose to .
Most of us irish people dont bother wearing the easter lily..so whats the bloody problem..get over all this bigotry..
I don’t see what the problem is I’d wear a poppy . The British legion sold over half a million poppies in Ireland in the first half of the century . Irish people where very much pro British and pro empire . Dublin 1924 , tens of thousands of Itish people turn out to remember their war dead . https://youtu.be/mXf0V9mMTMA
@Paul Smith: Where does the money raised go? Why do pro- poppy stalwarts keep ignoring this question?
If Irish people were so pro-British, why did SF win 73 seats out of 105 just six years earlier?
@Teresa Ryan: the money goes to Irish Veterans in Ireland . The Money stays in Ireland . Donations to British legion in Ireland has increased times four over the last five years . The money is support Irish veterans and their families . An example of this was a WW2 veterans daughter recently died in a car crash . The legion paid for her funeral .
@Paul Smith: The money goes to Irish veterans who served in a foreign army, namely, the BRITISH ARMY. Very disingenuous of you to omit the exact army that they joined.
What else are they supposed to do with money raised but donate it?
Sad that so many lives (both soldiers and innocent civilians) were lost during WW1 but I’m not wearing it until the innocent civilians who died get acknowledged
Would you wise up ! coming out will bull, gangsters have been running the Dail since the foundation of the state . Go and free Belgium while their own country was been held in chains
Why not just wear a white poppy https://ppu.org.uk/remembrance-white-poppies
@Trevor Beale: because I’m not a twit
They say that the most soldiers came from the South East of Ireland and not from Ulster but that is one I like to know if it’s true which I think it is…
As I said before the poppy is only a form of UK government propaganda by using the dead to justify future and recent wars and conflicts, these wars and those soldiers are suppose to be remembered by using a poppy because the soldiers use to use poppy seeds in order to mask their hunger and starvation. Their pockets were full of poppy seeds because they ate them due to a chemical in the seed that hides the pains that come with starvation. When these soldiers were killed and rotted into no mans land and surrounding area then these poppy seeds would stay in the soil until the right conditions led to them germinating and then flowering. That is why the poppy symbolised WW1, not such a great propaganda tool for war once you know the workings behind it.
Also remember WW1 was a war started between European Royals who were the inbred cousins of each other fighting for resources in colonies but with the war taking place in Europe and it was this war that lead directly to WW2 as well.
Also remember that many Irish soldiers who came home from WW1 ended up joining the IRA and that in England in 1919 returning English soldiers had such a riot that England nearly had its own Communist revolution then and it was by luck England didn’t become communist in 1919.
Even today in the UK their government thinks more about the poppy and using it to celebrate wars with stories about heroic deaths and yet since WW1 the UK government has never really looked after the well being of its soldiers as Afghanistan and the Iraqi wars have shown. Even in WW1 soldiers suffering from shell shock / PTSD were shot as cowards by their own rank as their generals were miles away in safety or as the saying goes from the time lions led by donkeys?
The British army was always an army that England used as mercenaries in wars from slavery, coffee, spice trade to oil, it was an army working for businesses and the Iraqi war proves this for many as many sees it as a war for Iraqi oil.
Also the poppy has a closer touch with Ireland especially with its links to N. Ireland with British army soldiers working with loyalist paramilitaries to kill Catholics or even to torture them and that also happened in Dublin well before Ireland was partitioned as 1916 and all the Bloody Sundays can testify to.
Remember also Loyalist paramilitaries also use the poppy as well to remember their dead and see them equal to soldiers in the British army.
So how can we wear a symbol that has so much innocent blood attached to it especially when it is a reminder of the evils the British army has done in Ireland since before 1916 and also a symbol that represents returning Irish soldiers who then joined the IRA. The poppy is just an excuse for the UK to justify future wars, it’s a propaganda tool using selective history to rewrite past history and a tool to recruit soldiers as mercenaries and if they survive then they can be future propaganda for their Invictus games. Where they are told being shot or blown up is for their national security as they invade and steal that countries natural resources for their own business mens profits and we are suppose to do the same? Are we not a neutral country, why do we need to celebrate other countries wars unless its to help with PESCO? It can be argued that the EU that came from the EEC which was born out of WW2 and that was given life by an ex French Nazi as it was a coming together to prevent future European wars. As the Brexit is being shouted about it will give a blow to the EU project and all this WW1 shouting might be a way to falsely remind people that the EU is more important than it really is but who knows?
Don’t see what the problem is . Id wear a poppy . The British legion sold over half a million poppies in Ireland in the first half of the century . Before independence the Irish where very much pro British and Pro empire . Dublin 1924 one year after independence. Tens of thousands of Irish people come out to remember the war dead . https://youtu.be/mXf0V9mMTMA
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I am wearing a pin with the lily and poppy.
It’s beautiful and I feel remembers all.
Don’t know what the problem is I would wear one . The British legion sold half a million Poppies in Ireland in the first half of the century . It just goes to show that the people of Ireland today have nothing in common with the people that once lived here and yet we think we can speak on their behalf . Dublin 1924 one yr after independence tens of thousands of Irish people singing god save the king and wearing poppies . . https://youtu.be/mXf0V9mMTMA
@Paul Smith: can u show a link r proof. Half a million poppies Pure bull s
Wise up with the bull , Gangsters have been running the Dail since the foundation of the state , Go and free Europe while their own country and people were held in chains
“As Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said this week, by understanding Irish history, we help to encourage understanding of it”… At lease we know where the IRA got their guns back then lol.
They brought them home from being in WW1…
My Grandfather and who was to become his Brother in Law ( Irish Neibhours) had emigrated to the USA in 1910. Both were conscripted . They both ended up in the Cavalry division as they had experiences with horses.( See “War Horse” )
My Grandfather returned but my GranUncle died in the War.
The Soldier in St Stephens Green celebrated the Irish men who returned from WW1.
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