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TÁNAISTE SIMON COVENEY has said he still approaches the issue of abortion from a “pro-life perspective” but believes the status quo can no longer remain in Ireland.
In an interview with TheJournal.ie about how he came to form his views on the abortion issue ahead of the upcoming referendum on the Eighth Amendment, the Cork TD spoke for the first time about his family’s own personal tragedy in pregnancy.
He also discusses how his views could be seen as different to a perceived ‘Yes’ voter and how he can no longer stand over a situation where Ireland exports its women-in-need to the UK.
As a married man and father of three girls, Coveney said he reflected on his own experiences, as well as input from medical experts and women who had gone through difficult circumstances in the past months.
He has no difficulty in saying he struggled with the issue.
“I am surrounded by girls and women, which is great. And I do think about my own daughters in the context of these decisions. I think about my own personal experiences as well with my wife through pregnancy, and we have witnessed tragedy as well as the happiest days of our lives. So I know the value of life, believe me. I know how precious that is.”
Supporting a Yes vote is something he put a lot of thought into, said Coveney.
“The decisions I have made in terms of my positioning on these issues, I haven’t done lightly. I really have taken the time to read and consult and talk to people who have experienced, as I have, issues in a very intimate way with people that they love.
But I am adamant that we should not lose this opportunity to change legislation in this area to reflect the realities that we know to be the case in Ireland, but unfortunately that some people in Ireland don’t want to focus on.”
Many in Fine Gael and in government, including Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, are actively campaigning for a Yes vote in May. However, Coveney’s path to a Yes vote has had its ups and downs, and has been anything but clear-cut.
Abortion up to 12 weeks
In the early days of the campaign following the publication of the Oireachtas Committee’s report recommending that abortion be permitted up to 12 weeks, the Tánaiste caused quite the controversy when he appeared on RTÉ’s Sean O’Rourke programme and said he couldn’t support such a proposition.
“I don’t believe that there should effectively be unrestricted access to abortion at any point in time,” he said in February, adding that it is not consistent with the State’s obligation to protect the unborn child.
Fast forward a little under two months, and Coveney did a u-turn stating that he had changed his stance on the government’s legislative proposals for abortion.
Sitting in the lobby of a Cork hotel, Coveney tells TheJournal.ie that his views haven’t changed all that much since that radio interview.
“I am not that dissimilar now than to what I was then,” he said.
“I made it very clear I couldn’t support, in principle, the type of legislation that was being proposed around the recommendation of the Oireachtas committee unless a number of things I was looking for happened.”
Including medical protocols and reflection period
Since then, the Tánaiste said he worked with Health Minister Simon Harris to include some of his propositions.
“At the time I said I couldn’t support a situation where there was unrestricted access to abortion for any period during a pregnancy whereby the impression and understanding that many people had been that it would be a straightforward process to go and get a prescription to terminate a pregnancy.
“Since then I have spent a lot of time with medics and indeed with Simon Harris and others. Certainly what is being proposed now is not unrestricted access to abortion. It is a supportive medical practitioner-led process that involves new medical guidelines and medical protocol around fully informed consent.
“In other words it will be a doctor’s responsibility to ensure that before a decision is finalised to terminate a pregnancy that all avenues have been explored, all the supports are known to the woman involved and that all options have been fully considered before any decision is finalised.”
Coveney said it was important to have a 72-hour reflection period included in the proposed legislation.
“I was very much involved in the discussion around that protocol and timeline to make sure that no decision is being made in a way that doesn’t reflect the magnitude of the decision to terminate a pregnancy, which for me is a huge decision and also we agreed there would be no late-term abortions. That was something that wasn’t previously there.
The word ‘journey’ is often used to describe someone’s thought process surrounding how they chose to support one side or another in the abortion debate, but Coveney said that word doesn’t sum up his experience.
‘Pro-life perspective’
“I do approach this, and I have always approached this issue from what I suppose some would regard as a classic pro-life perspective. I believe that the State has a responsibility towards an unborn child in terms of protection, but I also think that responsibility has to be in perspective of the obligation to protect women and their health too. I think a woman’s life and health has to be prioritised here.”
While he said he is not a “reluctant” Yes voter, he admits to being a little bit different. But he believes close to 40% of the population hold similar views to his own.
“I think there is a difference between my views and plenty of other people who are advocating for a Yes. Some people would have supported a Yes vote in this five or 10 years ago. They would have a ‘classic pro-choice perspective’ – that it is a woman’s decision, it is her body, it is nobody else’s business, certainly it isn’t the State’s business and that this should be a woman’s right to choose and there is no other consideration.
“That is a position that many people hold and that is their view. My view is that the State has a responsibility here but it is about a prioritisation of women’s health and women’s lives in the context of that decision, but also recognising that the State has a role to play in ensuring that the magnitude of a decision to terminate a pregnancy and the consequences of that decision is something the State has a role to play in.”
Coveney said he has spoken to many people about the issue, and some members of the public have approached him on the matter.
I believe my position is consistent, I suppose, with an evolution of how I have always thought about this issue, but certainly having spoken to many doctors and many women in terms of hearing their personal stories.
“I don’t mind saying that I have struggled with this issue. I think I represent about 40% of the population when I say that.
“The number of people who have stopped me in supermarkets, in restaurants, in the workplace and said: ‘You know what Simon, I heard you on the radio talking about this issue the other day and I could have been listening to myself’.
“I have had so many people say that to me, particularly men actually, but also some women. They have said to me: ‘I understand that we need change here, the status quo is not okay, but please reassure me that we are not going to go too far, because getting the balance right is really important to me.’ Lots of people have said that.
Liberal regime
Coveney said he wants to reassure people that should the vote pass allowing the government to legislate for abortion, a “liberal regime” will not be introduced in Ireland.
“I hope I have managed to convince people that actually if we get the opportunity to legislate – to put a more comprehensive and supportive piece of legislation for women in place – they can be reassured that people like me are not going to support legislation that creates the kind of liberal environment that people would like to have but that I think the majority of Irish people would be uncomfortable with,” he said.
The Tánaiste said whether he agrees with abortion isn’t really the point. As a policy-maker and legislator he said he cannot turn his eyes away from what is actually happening in Irish society.
He said some people are choosing to ignore that reality.
“In my view there is a false sense of reality here by maintaining the current wording of the Constitution and the current legislation of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act that we are somehow preventing abortion for Irish women – we are not,” he said, pointing out that in reality of thousands of women travel every year, to terminate pregnancies.
You could say abortion laws in Ireland, essentially are British abortion laws.”
Referendum posters
So far, the Tánaiste believes the abortion debate has been a respectful one, but he does have concerns. This week, a number of maternity hospitals appealed to certain campaigners on the No side to remove large-scale advertisements and posters from the entrance of their facilities.
The Irish Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform (ICBR) displayed graphic imagery showing foetuses outside the National Maternity Hospital at Holles Street, the Rotunda Hospital and the Coombe Hospital.
Despite the calls from the hospitals and the official Save the 8th campaign, the ads remained in place.
When asked about the issue, Coveney said a “line of decency” had been crossed.
“Of course I would be urging restraint. I think the debate on TV and radio so far has been quite respectful and I have a lot of respect for people who are voting no. I really hope they will think about this and change their mind, but I respect their view.
“There have been people on the Yes side too who have been pretty sanctimonious and lecturing too and almost referring to people as dinosaurs if they don’t share their views. But I think the imagery that has come from some on the no side, particularly imagery being used outside maternity hospitals, where people on a daily basis will be dealing with the trauma of miscarriages and losing babies, I think that does cross a line of decency that I think we need to be careful of.”
Respecting no voters
However, the Tánaiste said he is not naive. This is a highly controversial emotive issue so there will be moments in this campaign where lines are crossed, he said. Both sides need to be careful and responsible in terms of taking the tension out of the situation, rather than build it up, he added.
“I respect the people who are voting no, this is not an easy space for people. I am not in the position of lecturing people on the yes or no side. All I can say is people can have their choice, they can make up their minds.
“But my job as the Tánaiste and as a public representative is to be quite public as to why I have taken the decision I have which can hopefully help other people to settle in their own mind about what they can and can’t support.
“For me this is about sensible change given the realities and facts as we know them, getting the balance right in the legislation as it is impossible to do that in the Constitution.”
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I’m glad Coveney is taking this compassionate approach
This amendment has caused so much pain, it just needs to go
@Chucky Arlaw: He seems to have listened to the women in his family!
@Chucky Arlaw: there is nothing compassionate about aborting little babies.
@Dee O’Connoll: read the bl**dy article…
@Colette Kearns: kiddies, just kiddies.
@Dee O’Connoll: well said. This could be
somebody’s daughter
somebody’s son.
somebody.
This is human life we are being asked to end.
Let them live #vote no
@Greg Kelly: what about the mothers who risk their lives in pregnancy? Treatments for epilepsy, chromotherapy and electric shock therapy in Ireland, to name just three, require a woman to take a pregnancy test to prove she doesn’t have a foetus in her uterus each time she receives a dose
Do you care about her?
@Christine Paulette Roche: Embryo! Big difference!
@Chucky Arlaw: those are already aborted with no issue should one get pregnant
@Chucky Arlaw: particularly the epilepsy thing. No obstetrician worth their salt would continue the pregnancy. Same for those with metallic heart valves eisenmemgers and those on warfarin.
@Chucky Arlaw: Even babies with heart issues that have poor prognosis or require a transplant by the age of two like hypoplastic heart. It’s permissable to get an abortion because there’s no way in hell you’re getting a heart transplant in Ireland for a kid. As rtas are so low we don’t have any and the UK will prioritise theirs
@Greg Kelly: Aw! You’ve lost the referendum, another shambolic campaign by the fundamentalists. Why can’t you (with emphasis), just accept that the majority of Irish people aren’t heartless b**tards? You think you’re defending ‘babies’, but you are 100% misguided, you’ve lost the argument, suck it up, see you on the Yes side of the 26th of May.
@EvieXVI:
I read the article. This man is a spineless worm . And its STILL NOT COMPASSIONATE TO MURDER BABIES
@Chucky Arlaw:
It is not compassion to crush a little babies head or to burn it alive or to suck its brains out. This bleached language you the baby killers use is on purpose. They don’t want you to see that abortion is child sacrifice plain and simple. The demons want their blood offering . Abortion is murder period.
@Colette Kearns: Human life, no difference
@The Hoodedman: Huge differences.
@oneEyedJoyce: go back to bed..
@oneEyedJoyce: go back to bed..
@It’s A Bay-bee!: sorry don’t agree, human life is human life .
@The Hoodedman: When do you believe that human lifer should get protection ?
@Colette Kearns: the women in my family are voting no.
@A Piece of Chalk: I think you would qualify as a fundamentalist yourself
@It’s A Bay-bee!: all the time and all humans deserve it.
@oneEyedJoyce: scary there were 37 likes to this comment. Our country really has some twisted mindsets. It’s shocking that this filth is also being allowed to perpetuate on billboards across our streets. Vote Yes for compassion for all.
@Greg Kelly: Let them travel or buy online you mean
@Colette Kearns: still a human lifeNo difference whatsoever.
@Colette Kearns: still a human life.
It is simply impossible to describe yourself as “pro-life” while advocating a yes vote which will lead to millions of babies deaths.
@Dee O’Connoll: Do
@Matt Bateman: hes a hipocrite. You cant be both. Otherwise the gov would legislate fifferent proposals. This is abortion on demand. I would vote yes for hardship cases but not this
@Joe Mc:
It’s illogical that abortion in Ireland is a crime yet nobody is prosecuted. It’s illogical to export it and pretend everything is grand. It’s illogical to retain this amendment.
Voting YES is the only credible option for all sane and mature adults.
@Tweed Cap: not when you think of the horror of what happens to the baby/human/foetus after it is aborted for no reason whatsoever requires up to 12 weeks or later as is being proposed. Disposing of baby parts is a nasty thought. Vote no.
@Dee O’Connoll: “babies”… emotive and nonsensical to refer to a 12 week foetus as that.
@Greg Kelly:
The existing law doesn’t prevent abortion therefore it doesn’t make sense. Therefore it’s completely senseless for you or anybody else to defend it.
@Greg Kelly: So are you in favour of locking up pregnant women until full term? Are you against women traveling? Because you seem to me like a little hypocritical NIMBYist
@Dee O’Connoll: tell that to the so called pro lifers who voted for the PESCO, such hypocrisy!
@Matt Bateman: Simon supports change but with respect for the baby’s life. That is not what this proposed ammendment or the heads of the legislation provide for. Simon talking out of more than both sides of his mouth.
Vote NO way 25th May
@Dee O’Connoll: I”ve posed this question to so called pro lifers many times on this site and have yet to even get a reply, never mind an answer.
I’m asking what are the Vote No advocates doing to help the current living babies and young children whom are living with life changing disabilities or are in homelessness.
Very easy to Vote No. Doesnt cost you a thought to exercise your opinion but that vote has consequences for others down the down. Very selfish as far as I’m concerned.
Hey Greggers :) 67% of terminations happen before and during the 8th week of pregnancy,it’s a time when the woman will swallow a couple of pills..also,the pea sized embryo won’t be seen inside of the huge clot of blood that ….by the way,why don’t the “love both” side ever show one of those abortions :)
Vote Yes
@Dee O’Connoll: It is simply impossible to describe yourself as “pro-life” while advocating a no vote.
@Tweed Cap: so everyone who is on the no side is insane & immature? That’s nice for you. Maybe we should only let the people who agree with you vote.
@Michael Powell: rephrased ,all human life
@Bat Daly: an excellent question which can be posed to both sides as it involves the whole of our society. It exposes the injustice and inequality to this group and the inhumanity of our present structures. Yes lets push for changes here. Support these people, the families, their carers. But to look after them we have to let them live first. Do I trust Simon et al. to legislate to protect them after a repeal of the 8th? No.Do I think future legislators with gradually try to introduce abortion on demand? Yes. 8,000,000 aborted in UK to date. How many of those were simply inconvenient? Cherish all. Vote No.
@Joe Mc: well, the pro life posters claim LOVE THEM BOTH. So if you cant be both, what a big ie isnt it? But then we always knew that and you never care about the woman, happy to sacrifice her for your own ideology.
@Michael Powell: when my wife got a scan at 12 weeks none of the medical professionals involved used the word foetus. They used the word baby.
@Matt Bateman: and unfortunately Matt that will be your biggest mistake. Like you I sympathise 100% with the hard line cases and I believe our lazy government needs to do way more for those people but being asked to trust all women and men is insane. You would not trust everyone you meet in the street. 23% of abortions in the UK last year were by people who said they could not afford a baby. 23% in a population like the UK, that is alot of innocent lives lost out of convenience. People are delusional if they believe Ireland will not act the same way. Every law is abused here this will be no different. We need to vote NO to this and then both sides should harass the Government to come up with a better solution to the issue, make them earn those huge salaries.
@Dee O’Connoll: anonymous bot.
@Dee O’Connoll: Jane West
May 4 (2 days ago)
to me
4 Weeks: Size of a sesame seed…….
5 Weeks: Size of a sunflower seed…..
6 Weeks: Size of a raisin…….
7 Weeks: Size of a blueberry…….
8 Weeks: Size of a raspberry…….
9 Weeks: 9/10 inch, 1/10 ounce, size of a cherry…….
10 Weeks: 1 1/4 inches ,1/8 ounce, size of a strawberry……
11 Weeks: 1 1/2 inches long, 1/4 ounce, size of an apricot……
12 Weeks: 2 inches long, 1/2 ounce, size of a lime
More than 90% of abortions take place during this period. Does any of that sound like a description of a baby?
Simon supports change but with respect for the baby’s life. That is not what this proposed ammendment or the heads of the legislation provide for. Simon talking out of more than both sides of his mouth.
Vote NO way 25th May
@J Corb: agreed
@J Corb: nothing changes until the 8th is repealed.
We cannot give rape victims a choice, we cannot help cases of FFA,
The no side claims to love both, but the reality is they don’t give a shite about the women
@Barry Somers: Stop using rape victims and FFA as a case for abortion on demand.
Go on the rape crisis website and check the figures of pregnancies that resulted in rape and you will see that the majority over the years have chosen life and carried the baby until full term. Amazing women.
With regard to FFA, “babies who have a life-limiting or life-threatening condition” you should research this more and see what it means. It does not mean all babies diagnosed with FFA cannot survive outside the womb. There is a whole spectrum of issues here and the government needs to address this issue better instead of using abortion as a cure.
The travel argument, I think most women would travel anyway rather than walking into their local abortion clinic and risk being the talk of the town.
Abortion pill, legalising abortion doesn’t make this problem go away as can be seen in other countries where abortion is legal. Young women still order it online, most likely they are afraid of people finding out about the pregnancy.
The law in Ireland recognises the right to life of the unborn. That means that the unborn is a life. Nothing you can say can take away that fact.
Clearly the government has used rape, incest and FFA cases to further their abortion agenda. If they really cared about women this would be reflected in how they govern society here in Ireland, i.e. tougher rape sentences, more support for single mothers. If there are 3000 women travelling abroad every year for abortion it shows how much the government and we as a society have failed these women.
Abortion, murder, suicide, accidental death, the ending of a life never has a good outcome for the families involved. To say this is a women only issue is nonsense, who are the people standing with her supporting her and crying with her, her family, her friends.
I really hope people research this issue and properly inform themselves.
@Jonathan: well said
Jonathan ;
For a lad that is asking other people to carry out research and properly inform themselves -it seems that you forgot to tell us about the study which shows that 95% of women showed zero remorse after procuring an abortion.That up to 80% of men are involved in the decision of a woman ending her pregnancy..
By the way,you still came up with ZERO solutions.
@It’s A Bay-bee!: Nonsence there are a lot more studies that say otherwise. You are just making those women sound like serial killers(95% showed no remorse). I cannot believe any woman would be so cold hearted. Pro abortion propaganda.
@Jonathan: <- pro lies scaremongering with tonnes of emotional nonsense thrown into the mix..
@J Corb: I often wonder how men would feel if women debated their bodies and what they could force them to do would look like. Do we factor at all?
And tomorrow the Journal will have an article with an interview with a TD who supports the NO vote and they will explain the heart breaking reasons why they decided to vote NO……….Ya right, like hell they will. Journal just like 99% of all media pushing the yes. Fair media representation? I await the article and I will apologise. I doubt I will be apologising.
@Andrew Cosgrave: Then dont read The Journal.
@Andrew Cosgrave: go to the liberal web site then. Or maybe consider why a yes vote is the right vote.
@Deborah Behan: it’s not. Killing innocent kids is never the answer. Only an animal would vote for that.
Quick, someone better tell Simon the latest polls, Pro abortion have margin cut from a 39% lead in Feb to 11%. The rate it’s falling, as voters engage, could see the No side winning…..
@eric nelligan: at least half of my friends have flipped to the NO side in the last week mainly because they don’t trust politicians of what they say.
Exhibit 1 above
@Greg Kelly: I’m guessing you took this poll in a mass
And as for the OP, forget about it, it doesn’t matter if it’s repealed or not, abortions will still happen… The eighth amendment is morally repugnant and like slavery or apartheid, this fight won’t end with one vote
@Chucky Arlaw: in the pub the other night when we were chatting about it if you must know!
Like slavery it was abolished because it was wrong and people’s “choice” to own one was curtailed.
Like marriage equality it was wrong to allow love to be restricted to one segment of population on equality grounds and people saw the light.
This time it is about equality to life for all sons and daughters of the Republic while at the same time giving the mother all the protections in place as is currently part of the legislation.
@eric nelligan: dead right. That opinion poll will cause panic on the Yes side… Expect some drastic steps and a ramping up of their misinformation campaign. Who knows Varadkar and Harris May actually debate the issue with No representatives, but one shouldn’t hold one breath on that..
@Greg Kelly:slavery was abolished because it violated the born persons right to their bodily autonomy….oh dear, Greggers :)
@It’s A Bay-bee!: Women already have 100% bodily autonomy. Taking the life of a unborn child does not give a women bodily autonomy, I don’t understand your logic. Your whole argument is based on the unborn not being a life. Irish law clearly states that it is. You are only fooling your self.
@Chucky Arlaw: slavery or apartheid?
@Jonathan:Eh ? That one is 100% news to me :-)
The right to bodily autonomy trumps all other rights. We know this is true, because a person’s one day old corpse cannot be used for donor organs without their consent. If they cannot legally force you to give up a kidney or part of your liver, why would a woman be forced to carry a foetus inside of her for 9 months, at risk to her health? People who actually look at the research that is carried out,will know that every pregnancy/childbirth is much riskier to her health than her having a safe,legal 1st trimester abortion.. By stating that a woman must carry a foetus to term, you are saying she has fewer rights than a day old corpse.
If you want women to be forced to carry a foetus to term,you must also advocate that all people who die can have their organs used for transplant regardless of what they or their families want; and that people can be forced to donate spare or partial organs to help those who need them. Suddenly it’s your liver on the line Jonathan – are you still okay with that? After all, life is sacred, and you don’t have the right to say no and let another person die due to your selfishness :)
I just don’t give the unborn more rights than a born person when it comes to using another persons organs for their ongoing survival..:)
@It’s A Bay-bee!: the “born person” that’s a good one.
@It’s A Bay-bee!: More nonsence. Here in the Republic of Ireland we recognise the right to life of the unborn and equal to that of the mother. It does not say “the right to bodily autonomy trumps all others”. If you do not believe me just read our constitution.
Use as much twisted logic as you want but you cannot change this fact!!
So this is what you are saying, if the 8th is repealed, a one day old corpse with have more rights than a unborn baby. I feel sorry that you feel this way.
@It’s A Bay-bee!: why do we mourn miscarriages and other times ‘that clump of cells/definitely not a human being’ die in the womb so? If it’s was never alive, they why mourn? Ridiculous argument.
@Andrew Cosgrave: *then*
@Jonathan: Ah stop. If you actually believe women have bodily autonomy when pregnant in Ireland, it goes beyond fooling yourself and heads into delusional.
@Carol Oates: 100%
@Greg Kelly: You should campaign to repeal the 13th, so women cant travel for an abortion so they would be ‘protected’
A jellyfish has more spine than this man.
This cynical ploy to try and appeal to the “middle ground” is not going to work.
The government’s extreme UK-style abortion on demand proposals where healthy babies could be aborted up to 6 months on vague mental health grounds are already causing the ‘Yes’ poll numbers to plummet.
There’ll be serious concerns for the mental health of many repealers if this referendum is defeated.
@Emma Murphy: no, there won’t.. If it’s lost, this fight isn’t over by a long shot
Irish women will still have abortions whatever the result, and as the percentage of Catholics among the voting population decreases, repeal becomes more and more likely
By voting no you’re just attempting to delay the inevitable
@Chucky Arlaw: The inevitable destruction of Ireland. If Ireland legalizes abortion then Ireland will not exist in 100 years
@oneEyedJoyce: oh so you’re a racist too eh?
@Emma Murphy: it is actually anything but Uk-style. UK has an absolutely different system when it comes to abortion. SO this is nonsense. The offered regime would be the most restrictive on the continent, excluding poland and malte and current ireland.
@oneEyedJoyce: if you think this over if a no vote happens you are sadly wrong. I will fight to my dying day for the right of a woman to own her own body.
@Deborah Behan: Yes and we in the UK will still look after the women you export to us every day.
Simon must believe that he can leave his front door unlocked day and night and not get burglars … oh that’s right he has garda security….well in the real world opening of the door will lead to 5000extra abortions per annum.
@J Corb: Or saved, it depends on how you look at it!
@J Corb: Hope pulling that figure out of your backside wasn’t too painful
@Colette Kearns: mass abortion saves nobody,both will suffer,except one is cut to ribbons internally, the other externally, NO WINNERS
@Christine Paulette Roche: ‘mass abortion’ and ‘5000extra’ per year…good to see the ‘pro-lifers’ sticking to ‘facts’ !
@J Corb: Same BS from the No campaign. Any chance ye would debate the facts rather than focusing on fearmongering and lies?
This is the greatest example of a politician talking out of both sides of his mouth in recent Irish history. Shameful Simon.
@Dee O’Connoll: yep, I’m sure political integrity is your major concern here right?
@Chucky Arlaw: my major concern is preventing the killing of perfectly healthy babies up to 3 months and potentially up to 6 months on mental health grounds. That’s just not who we are.
@Dee O’Connoll: well it mightn’t be who you are…thankfully many us see that it’s a bit more nuanced than that…
@Dee O’Connoll: He reflects the FACT that this is not a black and white issue.
@Dee O’Connoll: anyone who has a daughter would be reasonable to vote yes so that if their daughter needs healthcare in the future, they are given it with compassion. I hope the yes vote passes and anyone on the no side can be thankful that their children will receive the heathcare they need in this country irrespective of their parents fundamentalist ideas. You shoud listen to girls telling stories of travel abroad for abortion and not telling their parents because of the parents backwards ideas. The parents think they are saving some spirits while their children suffer and hide it. Such a shame
Anyone remember the time he questioned the judgement of an experienced Air corps pilot who refused to fly him to cork because of predicted fog,unbelievable! They weren’t happy.
@Christine Paulette Roche: and that has nothing to do with this referendum.
Perhaps try sticking to the topic and realising that some people want to give women control over their own bodies
@Barry Somers: shows you just how ridiculous he’s judgement is,absolutely clueless.
Flip, flop..
@Kieran Graham: or making an informed decision based on a different perspective. I think a lot of people have changed their minds for similar reasons. The evidence and reality for thousands of people since this amendment was introduced support the need to repeal it.
@EvieXVI: or being an assho??
@EvieXVI:
That is the language of Globalism. Talk with no meaning but attempting to sound superior. Facts are that immorality leads to nations falling. Degenerate hyper sexual nations fall like Rome. Strong societies are moral and serve God. I know you are laughing. Poland. Hungary. London has a higher violent crime rate then New York City because it also laughed at God. Abortion is unsafe. Many women are harmed or die. Abortion leads to mental illnesses. Many women say they regret abortions and are left with that guilt for their lives. Temporary solutions create life term problems and ultimately a WOMAN HAS NO RIGHT TO MURDER ANOTHER HUMAN BEING
@oneEyedJoyce: Correct and right.
@oneEyedJoyce: Is that you, Ian Paisley?
IF repealed Healty children that could of been our sons and daughters will die ,
@Elvis Polkasalad: Not unless your the daddy!
@Colette Kearns:
Children belong to the nation as well. If you have no love of your people then you have no soul and nations filled with people like that fall like Rome.
@oneEyedJoyce: None of the pro choice people can see further than their noses .
The trouble with Simon is that while he says trust us not to bring in a liberal regime, he is in the minority on that in the Government. There is no guarantee he wouldn’t be run out of town if he tried to stop a later decision to liberalise it. He’s already toed the party line in opposition to what he really wanted before.
@GalaxyGirlo:
Correct. This is communist incrementalism. Globalism is communism. Strong moral nations like Poland and Hungary are able to protect their people while degenerate nations are overrun. This is just one step closer toward the goal of total enslavement and destruction of the Irish and European people. The self appointed “Elites” hate you and want you and your family dead. Abortion is just child sacrifice to Satan. No different then the Canaanites that burned babies for Moloch. Immoral nations fall. After Abortion is legalized it will next be legal to kill a baby right before its born. Eventually they will be killing them after Birth. They already do in America. They take babies out of their mothers and murder them. How long before its a toddler? Homosexual marriage, abortion, destroying Ireland through demographic invasion. Its all connected and will all happen bit by bit until you are like London with women having acid thrown in their faces all over the place.
@oneEyedJoyce: You seem so panicked! Relax. It’s not in your hands!
@GalaxyGirlo: I think he just thinks that his daughters need healthcare in their country. So should all parents.
ANY CHANCE of a Pro Life article from the Journal this century???
Perfect example to not trust politicians. Flips flops from one side to the other based on polls and votes.
When the referendum is rejected Coveney, Harris and Varadkar will wish they didn’t u turn.
VOTE NO.
This bildenberg puppet is an absolute disgrace to Irish people, best off resigning.
If he has geninely come to this conclusion for the right reasons then I applaud him. But its Simon Coveney so its hard to know.
@The Risen: some political parties have been honest from the get go with regards to abortion, mainly on the left. What we have in FF & FG is two parties that are trying to represent everyone & are representing no one. This is something a certain Simon Coveney once warned about.
Typical politicians response, the man is more interested in his political career than women’s health, he speaks out of both sides of his mouth.
In relation to the X Case legislation, Mr O Riordain said: “It is a starting point. Once you get that . . . then you can move . . . and of course if I’m on the radio and somebody says to me, ‘It’s a starting point for abortion on demand’, I’m gonna say, ‘No, of course it isn’t – it is what it is.’”
Aodhan ORiordain, then TD, 2013. #trustpoliticians
Ms Ferris said: “We will legislate certainly for what the European Court has told us to and then we can go further than that . . . we get the first part done and then we will go on to the next bit.”
Anne Ferris, then TD, 2013. #trustpoliticians
“The tribunal rejected the evidence of Mr Ahern, Mr (Des) Richardson, Mr Charlie Chawke, Mr Michael Collins, Mr David McKenna, and Mr Jim Nugent in relation to their involvement in a collection for Mr Ahern of IR£22,500 in Dec 1993,” the report stated.”
Mahon Tribunal, March 2012. #Trustpoliticans
“It is morally unjust and unfair to tax a person’s home, and by so doing grind him into the ground. Indeed in cases it could probably be unconstitutional”
Enda Kenny, TD, 1994. #trustpoliticians
“It [the intelligence service] concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes.”
Tony Blair, UK Prime Minister, 2002. #trustpolitcians
“Mission Accomplished”
George Bush, US President, 2003. #trustpoliticians
“Russia is not going to try to annex Crimea.”
Vladimir Putin, Russian Prime Minister, 2014. #trustpoliticians
And finally, just to show that Irish politicians don’t even trust themselves:
“…there must be a referendum on protecting the ownership of the public water system in the Constitution.”
Paul Murphy TD, 2017. #trustpoliticians
@Andrew Eager: so am I right that you’re going to vote no because you don’t trust politicians? That’s a little small minded in my opinion. Women are getting abortions illegally right now. That’s not changing so why not give them the dignity and look after them at home with compassion for the actual living, breathing, feeling woman?
@Jenni Harrison: Yes don’t be small minded and let’s think about this…you are promoting a solution to a problem without trying to find a solution to the cause of the problem. Abortion will not fix any of these social problems it only adds to them.
@Jonathan: how would it add to the problems? How would it add to the problems of a 14 year old pregnant girl? Want to elaborate the nonsense?
@Jonathan: in the 35 years since the 8th was brought in, nothing has been done to “fix” these social issues that you speak of. Why do you think that’s going to change now?
@Jenni Harrison: You are right Jenni, it’s a sad truth. No where near enough has been done to support these women and that will never change unless people come together against these politicians.
I just find it unfortunate that abortion seems to be the only option being proposed.
No he’s just the same as Varadkar and Harris that were pro-life and then went on their mystical “journey” solely with the aim of becoming popular. These people have no principles or political backbone.. political cowards.. they stand for nothing and fall for anything.. Thankfully it seems this may well all backfire.. #savethe8th
If I vote. It will likely be Yes but I feel the country will vote No and the 8th will remain.
@Stipe Miocic: it will likely take a second run to get Repeal but Repeal will inevitably come.
Blah blah blah Simon you a politician and politicians like backing winners this one will cost you your seat next time – jerry the smart lad has out smarted you and your playing catch-up
We can try to think of a foetus as a baby, imagine a foetus as a baby, describe it tendentiously as a son or a daughter of the Republic, over play images of real 6 month old babies on a foetus, but a foetus is a foetus and a baby is a baby.
I would agree with Pro-Life is foetus were to be an actual baby, but it’s not, and that is where Pro-Life falls down.
@Michael Lang: “honey I can feel our foetus kicking”
“Hi welcome to your 12 week scan. How is the foetus? Oh wow I can see your foetus on the scan”
The first thing the nazis did was try to dehumanise their victims.
Good try Michael.
But we can both agree he/she in the womb is human right?
@Michael Lang: give it a rest Michael. Get some sleep. Loads more €€€ to be earned commenting on the Journal all day 2moro and up until the 25th. Your commission payment must be insane. You will break the YES campaign budget alone with your fees.
@Michael Lang:
A foetus is a baby. It can feel pain, has a heartbeat and soul. You can make artificial words like “foetus” all you like but that does not change the fact that a human being grows inside a pregnant woman .
@Michael Lang: Utter nonsense Michael. The Irish state recognises the right to life of the unborn as equal to that of the mothers. The law as it stands would disagree with you.
You may not see it as a human being but you cannot deny that it is a human life.
@Michael Lang: and just because some high ranking medical elites use the term “foetus” it cannot over write thousands of years of human history, culture and language and redefine who we are.
You are an intelligent person Michael but I strongly feel that on this occasion you have allowed your judgment to be clouded by your hatred for religion.
@Greg Kelly: “honey I can feel the foetus kicking”
You make a valid point. No delighted expectant mothers refer to their upcoming new addition to the family as a foetus. It’s a wonderful feeling to be pregnant with wanted babies.
But shouldn’t every expectant mother feel that joy? For those who don’t, for whatever reason, we cannot keep exporting this issue overseas. It’s happening, it will continue to happen. Love both should refer to both the delighted expectant mother and the woman who can’t…
@Greg Kelly: At 12 weeks it is a foetus :)
Did you know that the Nazis made abortion a capital crime for German and ‘Ayran’ women..which means that you ‘force birthers’ have sooooo much in common with them….
this is why i find you to be one of the most adorable posters that we find on this site :)
@It’s A Bay-bee!: Wrong.
Nazi Germany’s eugenics laws liberalized abortion for both Aryan and non-Aryan women.
Aryan women could obtain an abortion simply by demonstrating that either parent had an hereditary defect, or that the child would be born with a congenital defect.
Non-Aryan women were “encouraged” to utilize contraception and abortion in order to reduce their populations
@Andrew Cosgrave: you exhibit all of the traits of a pro-life extremist.
@Michael Lang: haha ya because I’m here commenting hundreds of times a day on any article regarding the referendum, preaching my opinion and ramming my agenda down people’s throats. Will you please just admit what we already know. You are an employee of the YES campaign. You haven’t or will not engage with anyone who disagrees with you in a constructive manner. You keep throwing out your feeble ‘foetus is not a baby’ line hundreds of times a day. I’m an extremist? You are just another pro choice supporter with the blinkers attached far too tight, you have tunnel vision but we will put that down to the motivation to earn as much €€€ as you can. Do you even care about the referendum or is this just a job for you?
@Greg Kelly: it is in your head he/she. Women call it an IT if you want to go in specifics.
Oh Greggers :) providing an abortion to an “Aryan” woman became a capital offence in Nazi Germany. Ye ‘pro forced birthers’ have soooo much in common with Nazis :)
@oneEyedJoyce: It cant feel pain until 24 weeks at the earliest. Do you genuinely think a 12 week foetus, 2 inches long, 1/2 ounce, size of a lime is a baby?
I try to understand why people like Mr Coveney say they are prolife, but then say women’s health should be prioritized. I do not see the basis for deciding that one human life is more important than another. Claiming any new law must be restrictive is hopelessly naive, considering what has happened elsewhere: the door is slightly opened and soon the door disappears. I do not think Mr Coveney is naive: he is a politician, and this is a strategy. Anyone who follows politics knows that this strategy works, not only where abortion is allowed at first ‘for serious reasons,’ but also following legalization of ‘medically-assisted’ death.
What’s with the combination German / Irish flag brooch???
Some politicians speak out of both sides of their mouths some out of their backsides, but uniquely this guy sits on his hands and catches his own crap.
I think all of us who are parents want a different Ireland for our children, a place where we wont have to accompany our girls on the plain or boat to another country for healthcare. if other countries can approach their woman and girls with compassion. I see no reason why Ireland can’t. It is for our children, we dont want them still fighting for their basic healthcare some 20 years when the rest of world have been providing it to its people for over half a century now. REPEAL
Even if you disagree with abortion, it still makes sense to vote yes. Legalisation should lead to a drop in abortion rates:
In 2008 the Dutch authorities investigated an apparent increase in their abortion rates, and showed it was caused by high abortion rates among immigrants. See link below.
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2011/08/annual-number-of-abortions-stable-over-the-past-decade
The Dutch can identify and address abortion hotspots. Ireland will not be able to do the same until abortion is legalised and we gather stats ourselves. Incidentally the native Dutch abortion rate, at 5.5 per 1000 women aged 15-44, was lower than Ireland’s for the same time period. Add in those Irish women taking online pills, and our abortion rate is probably much higher than Netherlands (and Belgium, Switzerland, and Austria, see link below).
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irish-rate-of-abortion-lower-than-most-of-eu-1.1053375
When an Irish woman arrives at a UK abortion clinic, she’s already committed considerable time and resources to get there. If she has doubts, it’s very hard to walk away. On the other hand if the abortion clinic were close to home, if she has doubts she could leave, think about it, maybe return, maybe not.
Once legalised, abortion rates need not be as high as England or parts of Eastern Europe. There is no political will in England to minimize abortion rates, it’s not on the political agenda. The Dutch have proven it, the best way to minimise abortions is through public opinion, and hence political will. Let’s take the Dutch approach, and let’s vote YES!
@Jeff Murphy: Dutch abortion rate is 180.7 per 1000 births . That’s close to 1 in 5. Hardly something we should be aiming for.
All political figures should be banned from commenting and so should the Irish media because there is a blatant clear agenda going on here. Let people make their own mind up.
Typical politician. “I am pro-life but I must rationalize the murder of babies”.Bollocks. Ireland is in a battle for its soul. Nations that murder their children are nations that fall. America and Europe are good examples of where degenerate communist policies get you. Babies are a blessing and if you do not want one either give it away or don’t have sex. Sex is consent to pregnancy. Lowlifes who do not take responsibility for their actions creates a society that is filled with perverts and degenerates and you know what happens next? Islam takes over. Ireland is being flooded with incompatible low IQ savages from the third world which goes hand in hand with baby killing. Kill your future Irishman and woman while you are replaced by Somalians. This is a communist agenda that is attacking ALL European nations. Abortion is murder. Period. Abortionists should be put in prison along with the women who murder their kids . Cold blooded murder is not a “Choice”. And as for keeping the debate “respectful”. Of course the baby killers want it to be “respectful”. they don’t want you to see babies with their heads being crushed or their brains sucked out . They do not want you to SEE what abortion looks like ?! Why? Because it’s MURDER. A baby is inside a pregnant woman and NO ONE not even the Mother has the right to murder that child. IRELAND KEEP YOUR SOUL. Supporting child sacrifice to Satan will result in your nation being cursed. You already see the secular perversion reaping results in Ireland. Save yourselves. KEEP MURDER ILLEGAL
@oneEyedJoyce: I have seen some downright ridiculous rants on the Journal but that really is a host or rambling far right nonsense
Talk about playing both sides.
test
There is no way to restrict the deliberate termination of human life if you choose to legalize it. We have no legal restriction on abortion in Canada; we have relentless pressure to extend euthanasia to more vulnerable groups. The concept of discarding unwanted life is the same at both ends of life. My advice: don’t go there.
The pro-life side focuses on the foetus at the expense of a real, live human being, the pregnant woman. The life, health, interests and welfare of the pregnant woman, a real person, are discarded or ignored in favour of the fiction that a foetus is a baby.
The pro-life side bases its opposition to abortion on a false foundation. It has to pretend that a foetus is a baby and imagine the foetus as a live baby outside the womb. This is why it describes the foetus in emotive terms, an innocent baby, a little baby, a little child, a little boy or a little girl, a tiny little human being. Of course, reality is that a blastocyst, embryo or foetus may never become a baby. The foetus is a potential future human being, but this is contingent first on birth.
We can try to think of a foetus as a baby, pretend or imagine a foetus as a baby, describe it tendentiously as a son or a daughter of the Republic, overlay images of real 6 month old babies onto the image of a foetus, but a foetus is a foetus and a baby is a baby.
I would agree with Pro-Life if the foetus were to be an actual and real live baby, but it’s not, and that is where Pro-Life falls down. It fights on the basis of a false premise.
@Michael Lang: Michael…
It is real (we are not talking about imaginary pregnancy here).
It is live ( if it wasn’t we would be only considering removal of dead tissue from the womb)
So that only leaves ‘baby’.
Some people actually find it very difficult to treat a living being differently when the name that is chosen for it in a particular scenario is less human in nature than what might be used in other contexts.
As you know, history is full of people who were able to justify horrific behavior against others by using that same self delusional but convenient thought process .
@Michael Lang: I guess science is the new religion.
@Michael Lang: all value the woman’s life as no one is asking for her life to be ended.
All very commendable as a deep consideration of the issues (as would be seen by the 40% he probably does represent).
The only thing is, the 40% who are not politicians do not trust politicians the way Coveny might.
Particularly when the change will depend on “wind chiming” career politicians to protect the rights of the unborn into the future.
Whatever willingness there was to make changes to the constitution to be more helpful to the “hard case” scenarios, that opportunity was dashed by the recommendations of the committee which in the view of the 40% is literally “throwing out the baby with the bath water” and they are more likely to vote for “the devil they know”
If in doubt they’ll probably vote to keep it out.
@Nydon: politicians dont make decidion to stop a pregnancy, women do. You do not want/trust women , you just cant say it directly and it is easier to blame some politicians.
@Marie McCormack: This trite “trust women” is so shallow as to be laughable – if the context wasn’t so serious. I think I have said this elsewhere.
I don’t trust all women just like I don’t trust all men.
I don’t trust women who are suicidal to make the best decision for them and their baby. I don’t trust women who are under the influence of abusive partners to “get rid of it” to make the best decision for themselves or their baby.
In both of these cases, I believe abortion may do more harm than good for them.
I don’t trust career orientated women with an agenda to equate early motherhood to a failure to succeed in life ( an apparent attempt to gather numbers to validate their own chosen path in life) which is now just as mentally toxic as the RCC “Fallen woman” accusation.
The thing that stands out here is that he does not want to be seen as being on the YES campaigners side in this debate because of their extreme liberal views, their, don’t give a shit about a bunch of cells and their almost militant attitudes. And he certainly doesn’t want them to take any credit from his yes vote. Same here. I’d nearly vote no because of them but then i’d have the same dilema! Don’t take any credit YES siders when this passes. 40% of the people will be voting because they are the ones who actually do value life!
@Missyb211: Your last sentence is a load of hogwash! I will be voting YES because I value the woman’s life above that of a non viable foetuses’ life.
@It’s A Bay-bee!: Thanks for validating that point!
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