Total BS. You can be socially left but fiscally right. Do you think small private industry self employed working people lean left? Hardly big business now Wally.

People who vote right are not the capitalist elite. We might have 2-3% very wealthy elite as you call them, but over 55% vote right or centre right here.

There’s a very enjoyable whiff of desperation from the blueshirt mouthpieces this morning.

On the contrary Greg. Any ordinary person who votes for FF, FG or Labour is complicit in their own exploitation as we saw clearly in the catastrophic bank bailout or the recent Apple tax dodging debacle.

@Billy Mooney: @Billy Mooney: I’m sorry to say Billy that is seems same ol’ in the dail when the left out a Repeal bill, knowing it can’t succeed and do deal with Fine Gael to make it look as if they’re trying.
Same ol’s sham politics – and I am sorry to say that

Increasingly the left also reflects the concerns of the middle class.

@michael collins: That’s an ugly little comment Michael, not feeling great today?

That’s true John. But many of those who consider themselves to be working class would in reality be part of the working class in that they are required to sell their labour in order to support themselves.

consider themselves to be middle class…..

@Greg Kelly: Not so Greg, the self employed are as varied a demographic as any other. And believe me we owe nothing to Fine Fail

Freudian slip there Wally!
Guffaw!!!
If only more of your sainted ‘working class’ focused more on the first part of that phrase and less on the second.

Not everyone is left or right the vast majority are in the centre

so why are so many workers voting ff fg labour billy?

Wayne, There is no centre in reality. There is capital and there is the working class and capital gets richer by exploiting labour more. This division is clearly evident in the housing shortage and the homeless epidemic for example where the rentier elite are raking in massive profits on the back of housing shortage which is deliberate government policy.

@ Greg , I’m a private industry working type person and I vote left, i.e. I’m not a mè feiner, I can look beyond my own lot to the greater good , something many in this country seem unable to do .

@Billy Mooney: employers should apologies for employing people now, and you wonder why you are rejected by the working class

Wally, take a simple example of someone starting their own business:
They invest 50k of their hard earned savings into it and employ 3 people selling widgets.

Is that the capitalist model you hate?

I just want to be sure you deserve the ridicule you attract as you never make any real world sense.

The problem with your left/right scenario Billy, is that it doesn’t work for us. Both left and right activists and their politicians want power, nothing more. The (fiscal) right see this as embedding themselves in capitalism and the left in (fiscal) socialism. They both get involved in various non fiscal issues that they feel belong to their side of the divide. Both feel that they know best, and both would happily use the power of the state to enforce their ideologies.
That 55% middle voter, that you all chase recognise this, and would never opt to give either of you the reigns of power. That is why we are stuck with a political class of shysters playing all sides for their own gain.

@Greg Blake: What socialists want is for the working class to take power and run our society democratically to provide for the needs of all.
The dominant socioeconomic model is capitalism and that’s not working for you and many billions of others. The 62 richest individuals on the planet now hold the same wealth as 3500 million people, the poorest half of the globe’s population many of whom starve to death or survive in abject poverty. None of this in inevitable. But it’s the inevitable result of the the model which only undertakes productive activity in a quest for ever more profit. We will have to change this to a system which gears economic activity to meeting peoples’ needs if we want to improve the conditions for the vast majority of humanity.

And the power of the state is being used currently to protect the capitalist model and the interests of the elite. It occurs every day in for example the Apple tax dodging scam of course last week we saw the conviction of a juvenile for falsely imprisoning the Tánaiste in front of 100 + Gardai and the riot squad.

Alpha,
The widget startup you cited is making widgets in order to accumulate profit. Any jobs created are entirely incidental and the widget maker maximizes its profits by employing as few as possible and paying them as little as possible. Capitalist enterprise will not create a single job or produce a single product or service without the expectation of profit. Therefore capital only ever employs labour in order to exploit it to a greater or lesser degree. The sole objective of capitalist enterprise is the accumulation of profit and that profit is generated by the workers in the excess value they create over and above their wages. That is the essence of capitalism and it’s inherently exploitative. That profit is maximized by paying labour as little as possible and working people as hard as possible. This is the class divide and why the interests of the classes are always opposing.

So labour never receives the full value of the wealth it has created and over time this inevitably leads to the vast inequality with the majority labour class working to enrich an obscenely wealthy oligarchy. In addition, capital rents out its accumulated assets (e.g. money, property) back to the working class garnering further profit for itself while producing nothing. It’s also very adept at the privatizing collectively held infrastructure and resources owned and built by the working class and extracting huge profit from that etc etc.

We can see the logical result of this system where the 62 richest individuals on the planet now hold the same wealth as 3500 million people, the poorest half of the globe’s population many of whom starve to death or survive in abject poverty. None of this in inevitable. It’s the inevitable result of the dominant socio economic model which will ultimately have to be replaced by a system which gears economic activity to meeting peoples’ needs if we want to improve the conditions for the vast majority of humanity.

The capitalists profit is manifested primarily in the form of money and it’s crucial to understand that there can never be a shortage of money at a macro level. It’s also important to differentiate between money and real wealth/ resources. Money is how we measure wealth and also a claim on society’s resources. Our fiat currency money is created (and deleted) at will on the computer keyboards of the world’s commercial and central banks. At a macro level there can never be a shortage of a fiat floating currency like the Euro, sterling dollar etc.

In contrast to the instant availability of money, the real wealth of goods and services that we all depend on is created by the labour and skill of the working class from the raw material of the planet. Everything from the food in our bellies to the clothes on our backs right up to the most sophisticated technology is made by the workers.

Money is a claim on that real wealth produced by the working class and this is where money derives it’s power. The capitalist system peddles the illusion that there is a shortage of money (balance the books, reduce the deficit, live within your means etc) in order to oppress and control the working class who are the real creators of wealth.

And the working class has produced more than enough real resources to provide everyone on the planet with proper nutrition, a decent home, nutrition, healthcare, education, recreation and a job. It’s a political and ideological choice to deny people these basics.

So following the logic, society as a whole has no requirement for and can no longer sustain a system of productive activity with the sole purpose of accumulating money. The money is instantly available at a government/central bank level and is just a tool to measure and allocate the real resources that society has produced collectively. Instead the focus of productive activity should be to meet human need rather than to generate profit for private capital owners. This is the sustainable future for humanity and it’s called socialism.

This bump for them comes because they tabled a bill for a referendum on the 8th. When will the dinosaurs wake up and understand how important this referendum is. Let’s debate, let’s have a conversation and then let’s vote. Way over due.

@Deborah Behan: Labour and SF really need to get their backsides in gear on the 8th. They are wishy-washy. AAA/PBP are leading the charge and the bounce in the polls is well deserved.

@John Bennett: The left in Ireland is at the highest level of support. At the start of the 20th century (Larkin and Connolly’s day) the left had almost no support at all. I dare say we are doing something right.

What’s wrong with profit billy? The owner of the company I once work for gives me a good living, I bought a house and live well. He lives well also but not as well as me as he’s in a bit of financial difficulties. but in time he will be out of difficulties. that’s life.

Billy/Wally, your view of the word is breathtakingly stupid.

Is the root of your beliefs actually arrogance? You refuse to recognise the benefits of employment because you are so torn up inside due to a superiority complex that cannot handle not being the big boss yourself? You resent the success of others.

Many hard left socialists arrive at the hard left due to severe chips on their shoulder and envy; rather than they actually have any cogent alternative economic models. You show all the signs of that. Low self esteem can warp even a moderately intelligent mind.

@alphanautica: thats sums up all lefties, they hate the man because they want to be the man. its just all jealousy its no wonder everyone laughs at them

@alphanautica: The analysis of our socioeconomic system above is correct which is why you can pose no credible counterargument. Your capitalist emperor has no clothes.

John Bennett,
There is no shortage of resources to provide everyone with a decent life. The problem is that the collectively produced resources are owned and controlled by a parasite elite.
One strategy the elite employ to maintain their power and privilege is to pit onesection of the class against another such as the resident Vs migrant you outlined. They set us at each others throats under a variety of guises including religion, nationality, gender, race, working vs unemployed, public vs private sector, etc etc etc as they understand perfectly that a united and organized working class means the end of their domination.

@Billy Mooney: does all your bitterness stem from jealousy of us successful people?

No credible counter argument? There’s no need for a counter argument Wally – your diatribe is so patently vacuous that it tears itself apart.
In WallyWorld, the guy that screws the wing mirrors onto a car ‘deserves’ the same money as the engineer that designed the car and the guy that invested in building the factory.

The refugee and migrant crisis is another symptom of the capitalism’s failure for the majority. People are basically the same irrespective of where they come from. We all want to provide a decent home for our families, food on the table, heat and light, healthcare and education for our children and to have a decent job. If people can obtain these basics then the vast majority are satisfied and will never leave their home place.

It is the brute exploitation of the capitalist system and the violence and misery that it drives which sends people searching desperately across the globe for safety and a better life. This grossly exploitative system is preserved in large part by keeping the working class divided and fighting over the scraps so that we never look up and see who the real enemy is dining royally at our expense.

@Billy Mooney: how do you explain economic refugees from socialist and communist states risking their lives to escape and reach civilised functioning economies like those of the EU/US, where they can be rewarded on merit through the fruits of their labour and ingenuity?

Colin, And again you are unable to point to anything incorrect in what I’ve explained. Alpha is a mouthpiece paid to defend the interests of the elites here on the Journal. He knows which side he’s on and where his interests lie. You in contrast are a well conditioned pawn who argues for his own exploitation.

Alpha, You think Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan are socialist? Or is it the case that those nations have been torn apart by the capitalist elites as they grapple for ever more power and wealth?

Interesting to note that SF dropped two points and Labour dropped one point. Seems the left is moving more left.

@Billy Mooney: dont forget about the starving people of the defato dictatorship in Venezuela wally

‘The elites on the journal’ – is that those of us who get up to go to work and pay our taxes, bully?

@John Bennett: They’re not merely complicit in mass migration. In Rotherham and all the other rape grooming gang cities the left has been deafeningly silent. Labour councillors have been directly involved in those scandals, in the cover ups, and in vote fraud, the exclusion of women councillors and real anti-semitism. The left says and does nothing about it because it gets the votes of the muslim community.

@Deborah Behan: I’d say you’re right. Personally, just to add, having a daughter, it is a hugely important issue for me. AAA/PBP also spoke brilliantly on the subject in the Dail, despite the political manoueverings by the government to deny us all a vote.

Brid Smith in particular was excellent…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6_dzIklcvU&feature=youtu.be

@Wayne O’Fathaigh: There is no centre. There are only ongoing problems and the decisions necessary to implement long-term changes. The right has failed. Austerity has failed. The centre cannot hold.

Unfortunately the Independent alliance is up 2%. Zappone, Halligan,McGrath, Ross etc betrayed the people when they conspired with FG to defeat the Repeal referendum last week. We don’t need anymore bogus Independents always ready to support the capitalist establishment for their 30 pieces of silver. We need a party to represent the majority working class.

@Billy Mooney: i spent more on lunch today that you get in welfare a week, the fact that you loath my success and the wealth i create made my lobster taste all the more sweeter. i really do enjoy your bitterness :)

@michael collins: ” the fact that you loath my success and the wealth i create made my lobster taste all the more sweeter.”

Are you sure about that? Judging by your posts you come across more of a bag of monster munch and purple fruit shoot kinda guy….

DiEM25 is a pan-European, cross-border movement of democrats.
We believe that the European Union is disintegrating. Europeans are losing their faith in the possibility of European solutions to European problems. At the same time as faith in the EU is waning, we see a rise of misanthropy, xenophobia and toxic nationalism.
If this development is not stopped, we fear a return to the 1930s. That is why we have come together despite our diverse political traditions – Green, radical left, liberal – in order to repair the EU. The EU needs to become a realm of shared prosperity, peace and solidarity for all Europeans. We must act quickly, before the EU disintegrates.

https://diem25.org/

Nail on the head there @ for Connolly lol .. I suspect the great Mick Collins would rise out of his grave and strangle that poor twisted pathetic creature that sullies his name …

@For Connolly: your beloved shinners charge 500 dollars for dinner… hypocrisy much?

@Karl: shinners charge 500 dollars for dinner while they let bobby sandwiches starve, what an honorable bunch of deplorables

@ mc … Sigh ! You seem to have some serious mental health issues .. I recommend you get some professional help .. I mean no one in their right mind could come out with the same Nonsense drivel that you constantly vomit on a daily basis … Well except trump I suppose .. Then I suspect he’s probably a hero of yours. !

Mickey, You are the least able of the establishment mouthpieces on the Journal so It’s doubtful you’re paid very much. Luckily for you there’s a minimum wage thanks to socialists. Just be grateful for what we’ve given you.

@Billy Mooney: minimum wage is beyond you wally, you are destined to be a layabout for life, hence the reason you are so bitter LMAO

did FG not raise it twice, are you calling FG socialists now :D

Yes, mickey. What are you doing with that extra 10c your blueshirt paymasters have generously provided?

@Billy Mooney: its more than lefties ever gave… as ye nutters were never in power, why ever would that be?

Michael collins aka tommy aka dane. You think your successful get a grip you fool.

You think you’re in power? Are you not Mickey Martin ‘s glove puppet government?

@Billy Mooney: remember all the great things the AAA did when they were in power… oh wait LOL

We’re not in government and yet we’ve managed to sink your water charges ( banker tax ) plans which was very satisfying. Even Mickey Martin is dancing to our abolish water charges tune now.

@Billy Mooney: its just getting tragic for you now wally, set up a facebook page and then want to claim credit for something LMAO

wont it be all worth it when murphy in put in a cage where he belongs :D

The boycott scuppered your banker tax plans and AAA – PBP are the only party to call for the boycott. Join the dots………… If Murphy and the Jobstown residents are convicted in a political show trial then we’ll be on much more than 9% in the polls and we’ll win the by election that results if Murphy loses the seat. You’re really not the sharpest tacks in the box.

@Billy Mooney: it will be a great day for justice when those thugs are jailed. your not great at joining dots now are you, it must be due to the very limited intelligence of you nutters :D

@michael collins: Hi “Kenneth” -you are successful in your own head :D

If Marx was alive today he would say “pay your property tax and pay for water.”

Billy are capitalists responsible for the earthquakes?

@Jayo Breathneach: There is no such thing as the “good of the country as a whole”. There is what’s good for the majority working class and there is what’s good for capital and the interests of the two classes are always opposing. What’s good for Denis a Brien and his class is by definition bad for the rest of us. His profits are maximized by exploiting the rest of us.

And I’ve defined the working class and capitalist class many times here. The working class consists of those who have been, currently are or will be required to sell their labour (manual or mental) in order to support themselves and their families. So this includes most workers, their children, pensioners, students, the unemployed etc. So the working class are the overwhelming majority in society and create the vast majority of wealth that humanity depends on.

(There are exceptions of course, such as politicians, senior civil servants, senior media, corporate executives etc. who technically sell their labour but their interests are so entwined with those of the capital that they cannot be included in the working class)

The capitalist class are not required to sell their labour in order to support themselves. Instead they employ the working class in order to accumulate profit by confiscating the excess wealth which the workers create over and above their wages. In addition they rent out their accumulated assets money, property etc. in order to extract more profit from the working class.

The capitalist class represent a tiny minority in society but hold an extraordinary amount of power and yield it to preserve the system which serves them so well.

Patrick Thicko Gough. What part of we already pay for water do you not understand.

@Greg Kelly: top 3% people in the third percentile are families earning about €2,500 – €3,000 a week before tax and about €1,500-€1,750 after tax, hardly rich or elite.

OMG THIS SOUNDS SO LEGIT!!!

@Patrick Gough: Water is paid through a hike in vat and motor tax. It’s currently legislated for.

*The* Brendan Gordan. We just continue with what we have. That what has the Country the way it is.

Wally/Billy, the problem with AAA is that they have idiots like you running around calling anyone that doesn’t support them stupid. That and they have absolutely no realistic big picture plan.

Pádraig, cool back to the 1930′s it is then. Do you want to tell the Germans or will I?

AAA/PBP would be a socialist dictatorship!
We be all working our asses of to pay for the lad ms who live in “entitlements”.

These are the same Lot who called the government in Greece cowards when they didn’t give two finger to merkle and the EU!

Bunch of idiots!

Look at Venezuela,that’s your socialist utopia!
Destroyed in a few years!

It’s seems to be popular on the left you have to shout loudest.

Ciaran, Most of the abjectly poor nations on the planet operate under the capitalist system. Care to explain the manifest failure of your economic model for billions?

Wally, Jobs created from a startup are incidental? I always thought you are a joker but even by your standards that is a comical sentiment.

Wally, Have you ever been to a Communist country? Within a few days of being in Vietnam I was told by several locals how the Communist party provided no services for the people. They have to pay for everything and you either have to bribe or be affliliated with the party to get anywhere. The Vietnamese economy only started recovering from the war in the 80s/90s when they allowed private enterprise and foreign investiment! This is even ackowledged in one of the national museums! Sorry to burst your bubble but state sponsored socialism has historically been an unmitigated failure. You will never admit it but private enterprise has a place in society and is here to stay.

openness and accountability at all levels we have people in this country who believe their positions makes them infallible and untouchable hidden behind a wall of red tape and beauraucy backed up by political policing the man on the street nothing more than a number, there only to be taxed to the maximum. The whole political system is corrupt top to bottom it needs to come down.

“replacement for democracy” Really? What we have currently is rule in the interests of the 1% which is the opposite of democracy.

The working class is starting to reject the elite parasites which you speak for Mickey. Get used to it. The flushing of your water charges ( banker tax ) plans down the toilet is just the start? Now get back in there and beg your Gardai not to go on strike next week.

If the hard pressed workers of this Country came out and voted as they should then we would have a Government led by one of these party’s. It does no help when the likes of SF sits on their a@se and leave it to the likes of FG FF to form a Government also there’s the problem of voters who prefer to mouth off at everyone and everything instead of going out on polling day to vote . Until these problems are sorted out we are going to get in Government what we deserve.

I have a great ide let’s vote a crew in like the have in Venezuela, sure what could go wrong! !!!!!!

@Billy Mooney: if you could only get the working class to vote for you idiots you could say you represent them :D

We want to thank you mickey for increasing our support with your every comment. You’re a rare glimpse of the true face of the elites and the contempt they hold for the majority. Keep up the good work!

That’s another 0.25% mickey :)

Alan even IF and I mean IF hard pressed workers cane out to vote the way you THINK they should, do you honestly belive that they would vote for the looney left that would have their jobs lost within months of power. All people have to do is look at other countries where the hard left got power : Greece, Venezuala, Bolivia and fairly much all of Eastern Europe till the late 80s

Ah yes, the looney left who loaded € 100 + billion of private banking debt on to the backs of the people and broke the economy……Oh no wait, that was the entire right. wing political establishment of FF, FG and Labour.

0.5% :)

Billy everyone can vote unlike north Korea right.

I can understand Billy Mooney’s bitterness.

Anyone would have a grudge against employers if they spend a decade without getting promoted, every day mindlessly wiping down tables after people, and disposing of ketchup covered happy meal boxes.

@Billy Mooney:…. fact ..hard left socialists will Never win a Majority in a any election in the 26 county state now or in the very distance future….Irish people North and South are more centre leaning than hard left and hard right….

Micahael Collins — If a rabid dog could talk he’d sound just like you.

Don’t be silly alpha billy doesn’t work. He posts alk day every day.

socialist are just bitter as they are lesser people, you know useless.

@alphanautica: I see a FF/AAA coalition in the future – I mean, they both have the same policies – spend (someone else’s money) it while we (borrow) have it…. He he he – they have so much in common!!!

As opposed to FG borrowing at a loss to fund their mate and then backing that up by giving him a company in the cheap and then borrowing agaun to give that companyna multi hundreds of million contract. The FG gene pool again.

Does anybody know the details of this agreement between the EU and Canada? Is there something in it the gives big businesses the ability to sue a government?

Billy, if the majority vote for a government then that’s democracy, if the majority vote for an end to democracy then that’s also democracy. Can you see where this is going? The majority laugh at AAA and their ideas that would drive the country off a cliff, guess what, that’s democracy

@Billy Mooney: if you could only get those working class to vote for you clowns :D

how long will murphy get in a cage do you reckon :D

If Paul Murphy and the people of Jobstown are jailed for sitting down behind Burton’s car you can double that 9% at least.

We credit your mighty intellect for at least half of that 9% mickey. Fair play buddy.

@Billy Mooney: when is the big lefty revolution :D

ill pop open a bottle of champagne when those animals are caged :)

Where are your Gardai mickey?

@Billy Mooney: what do the gardai reject you nutters also?

@alphanautica: I’m an AAA member who happens to work a 50-hour week, and pays tax accordingly, and I joined because they have the only economic model that works for all people. Of course that would terrify those who dread paying their fair share. There, fixed that for you!

@Michael Bride: AAA have an economic model? Do explain.

@alphanautica: Tell ya what: post your name up here and we’ll engage with you on economics. Come out from behind your mask. Deal?

@alphanautica: Use society’s needs as a guide to investment and economic activity, with the welfare of people in the community, not profits diverted into vulture funds or hidden accounts, as the overriding objective, that’s it in a nutshell.As a more concrete example, literally, the crying need for housing would be met by a state building program to achieve economies of scale, ease unemployment,, put roofs over heads, and make even private mortgages/rents more affordable by cutting demand. Of course it would starve a lot of vultures and parasites, but that’s just a bonus!

@Michael Bride: Would the developers of such housing be permitted to profit from the activity?

lefties have just failed in life, its no wonder then are so bitter. its best to just laugh directly in their faces, that will never change

@alphanautica: Obviiously, developers employed on contract would be entitled to profit, just not obscenely so!

@Billy Mooney:
Here you go Billy, a fine example of macroeconomics.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/zimbabweans-fear-new-currency-could-throw-back-nation-horrors-its-2008-crisis-1589085

‘A true right wing party?’ We have three: FG, FF and Labour. The PDs collapsed under the weight of the inherent stupidity of their ideological positions and their putative successors, RENUA, were comprehensively routed at the last election.

This poll is great news and shows Irish people are starting to discern just who is on their side politically. The fate of RENUA is a good example of how people see through these sorts of outfits. A party with 24/7/365 positive media coverage flops spectacularly at their first electoral test. Why? Because most workers can see clearly that RENUA mean more of the same: lower wages, no investment in public services, more privatisation, worsening working conditions and on and on and on with the dreary catalogue of Right wing incompetence that marks this country since 1922.

The Left is the only hope for a decent society in Ireland: more and more people are waking up to that fact. This poll is evidence of that. Well done BIlly Mooney, keep up your good work!