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A UK POST OFFICE investigator has denied claims he and others “behaved like Mafia gangsters” who were looking to collect “bounty with the threats and lies” from subpostmasters.
More than 700 subpostmasters, who are charged with operating individual post office branches, were convicted on charges including false accounting and theft when it appeared that money was missing from branches.
However, it later emerged that the discrepancies were due to an issue with the service’s IT software.
Stephen Bradshaw, who has been employed at the Post Office since 1978, submitted a witness statement to the Horizon IT inquiry in which he said: “I refute the allegation that I am a liar.”
He told the inquiry he was not “technically minded” and was not equipped to know whether there were bugs or errors in the Horizon system.
The witness began giving evidence today after being involved in the criminal investigation of nine subpostmasters, including Lisa Brennan, a former counter clerk at a post office near Liverpool, who was falsely accused of stealing £3,000 in 2003.
Bradshaw has also been accused by fellow Merseyside subpostmistress Rita Threlfall of asking her for the colour of her eyes and what jewellery she wore before saying: “Good, so we’ve got a description of you for when they come”, during her interview under caution in August 2010.
Another subpostmistress, Jacqueline McDonald, claimed she was “bullied” by Bradshaw during an investigation into a shortfall of more than £94,000.
In her interview with Bradshaw, which was read to the inquiry, McDonald was accused by the investigator of telling him a “pack of lies”.
The exchange between McDonald and Bradshaw, read by counsel to the inquiry Julian Blake, included the investigator saying: “Would you like to tell me what happened to the money?”
McDonald replied: “I don’t know where the money is I’ve told you.”
Bradshaw continued: “You have told me a pack of lies.”
McDonald said: “No I haven’t told you a pack of lies because I haven’t stolen a penny.”
Blake said the witness’s words sounded “somewhat like language you might see in a 1970s television detective show”.
Responding to McDonald’s allegations of his aggressive behaviour in his witness statement, Bradshaw said: “I refute the allegation that I am a liar.
“I also refute the claim that Jacqueline McDonald was bullied, from the moment we arrived, the auditor was already on site, conversations were initially (held) with Mr McDonald, the reason for our attendance was explained, Mr and Mrs McDonald were kept updated as the day progressed.”
The investigator added: “Ms Jacqueline McDonald is also incorrect in stating Post Office investigators behaved like Mafia gangsters looking to collect their bounty with the threats and lies.”
Blake showed Bradshaw his “self-appraisal” of McDonald’s case, in which the investigator said: “The offender pleaded guilty to false accounting but would not accept theft.
“I challenged the recommendations of the barrister and persuaded him that a trial would be necessary, as the reason given by the defendant, Horizon integrity, would have a wider impact on the business if a trial did not go ahead.”
Blake then asked the witness: “It seems, certainly from your own feedback, from your own appraisal, that you saw it as in some way career-boosting to press on with Ms McDonald’s case because of problems with the Horizon system having a wider impact on the business, do you not accept that?”
Bradshaw responded: “The issue would been discussed with the prosecution barrister – as you’re well aware, when you’re filling in one-to-ones, there’s always a flamboyant way of putting the words across.”
Throughout his witness statement, Bradshaw said his investigations had been conducted in a “professional” manner.
At the beginning of his evidence, Blake first asked the witness: “Do you think that you have given enough thought over the past 20 years as to whether you may have been involved in what has been described as one of the largest miscarriages of justice in British history?”
Bradshaw replied: “It would appear that through not being given any knowledge from top downwards that if any bugs, errors or defects were there it’s not been cascaded down from Fujitsu, the Post Office board down to our level as the investigations manager.
“I had no reason to suspect at the time that there was anything wrong with the Horizon system because we’d not been told.
“The investigations were done correctly.
“The investigations were done at the time, no problems were indicated by anybody that there was issues with the Horizon system.”
Bradshaw told the inquiry that a statement signed by him declaring the Post Office’s “absolute confidence” in the Horizon IT system was written by lawyers from the law firm Cartwright King.
The statement signed by the investigator in November 2012 said: “The Post Office continues to have absolute confidence in the robustness and integrity of its Horizon system.”
Asked if it was appropriate for him to declare “confidence” in the IT system in the 2012 statement, he said: “I was given that statement by Cartwright King and told to put that statement through.
“In hindsight…there probably should have been another line stating, ‘These are not my words’.”
Bradshaw was asked if, following the case of a subpostmaster named Khayyam Ishaq in 2013, having had “all those years of complaints about Horizon”, if he was not “at all concerned about the state of the Horizon system”.
The investigator, who was called as a witness in Ishaq’s trial, said: “I gave my evidence, I was cross-examined by the defence and nothing untoward came from it.”
Blake continued: “There was something untoward, there was a prosecution, a conviction …”
Bradshaw interjected: “At the time of the case, when I gave my evidence, there was nothing untoward that had come back to me in 2013 from the defence when cross-examined.”
The statutory inquiry, which began in 2021 and is chaired by retired judge Wyn Williams, has previously looked at the human impact of the scandal, the Horizon system roll-out and the operating of the system, and is now probing the action taken against subpostmasters.
The probe was established to ensure there is a “public summary of the failings which occurred with the Horizon IT system at the Post Office” and subsequently led to the wrongful convictions of subpostmasters.
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Snowflake generation.
@Seán Dillon: I’m no fan of Hook, he’s a loudmouth know-it-all. I’d have absolutely no problem whatsoever telling him that to his face either, if I were unfortunate enough to have to opportunity. I’d expect to get some back in response though. If you can’t take it, don’t give it.
@John Considine: as he’d say you’re entitled to your opinion. That’s what I personally like about hooks shows, you don’t have to agree with him all the time or even ever.
@neilo: It’s a derogatery term for people who stand up for themselves.
@Sean Conway: It’s a derogatory term for people who can’t stand up for their arguments
@Daniel Rea: Isn’t that why people are afraid to speak out. because your boss wont give you another contract. and who’s going to pay the mortgage. sad but true.
The sooner George Hook is brought back the better, we need someone like him who is not afraid to speak his mind on air and not be afraid of the politically correct (loonies) contingent out there.
@Charles Coughlan:
Absolutely …george to me is brill.straight from the hip like mick o leary of ryanair..
Pity our politicians dont take a leaf from his book
@Larry Whelan: yes he can be good but I think we all needed a break from him for a while. His whinging voice was starting to sound like an air raid siren as he built himself up into apoplexy over the latest perceived outrage.
@Charles Coughlan: amen to THAT!!!!
I don’t like the guy…I thought he was brutal as a rugby pundit…but I salute anyone who says it like it is in today’s society.
@Larry Whelan: They can afford to talk in that manner when they are backed by billionaires.
@Sean: love George, he tells it like it is, there is an on/off button on all devices – which everyone has the freedom to use should they be utterly shocked at programme content. Bring back George hook.
good on you George.
Delighted and the sooner george hook is back on the air the better….. the more listeners for newstalk, yates and hook were the only two worth while (kennys not bad either in fairness!)
I don’t listen to the radio since there’s this internet thing. But while we’re on the subject I seem to recall a certain Cork radio personality who whipped his lad out on an airplane and started pleasuring himself. After a six month hiatus he was back on the radio. Hook isn’t even in the same universe. What’s wrong with people? Get over it. Snowflakes indeed.
@Virtual Architect: Long time ago that was, he assaulted no 1 so why bring it up? He wasn’t doing it on air and besides who hasn’t knocked one out while on a long flight.
@neilo: so switch the dial and keep it moving. Problem – don’t like hook.
Reaction – b!tch about it online.
Solution – don’t listen to him.
Quite simple really.
@Let free speech live: is it not the same thing Louis CK did? Also, wasn’t a long haul flight. London to Cork as far as I remember.
- Newstalk argued that Hook’s personality is central to the tone of the programme and the audience would be familiar with his “larger than life, gregarious and outspoken persona”
Sounds like whoever wrote this also penned Al Porter’s ‘apology’
@Guy Incognito: hook’s regular listeners probably aren’t the easily offended types so this description is okay.
The complainant in this case is a sh@& with nothing better to be doing with him or herself
@Guy Incognito: do you know for fact the same person wrote both or are you just slandering for the craic?
@Luka Savić: Sorry for triggering you Luka
@Luka Savić: Do you know for a fact what “slandering” means or are you just throwing it around to look clever?
@Neal Ireland Hello.: I’m satirising Guy Incognito.
@Guy Incognito: “Sounds like whoever wrote this also penned Al Porter’s ‘apology’”
What utter b0ll*cks .. Hook was hounded pout during a witch hunt, which was covered by all media .. Whereas almost silence on Al Porter .. Haven’t heard mrs pc himself Matt Cooper say much on Porter, compared to shows devoted to anti Hook rhetoric.
The pure hypocrisy of the social commentators, media and PC brigade as Hook made some comments about a sexual assault of a man on a woman, and was punished for it as it suited the social commentators, media and PC brigade narrative .. Al Porter is gay, so f all really in the media about his as it does not fit the social commentators, media and PC brigades..
And before you go even more, I cannot stand Hook and usually disagrees with his views and have sent some choice texts to him in the past. He may and possibly should have lost of job before for other comments, but no it was this one because its suits the narrative.
@Irish Bob: Cooper has his head so far up his own backside he makes Chris Donohoe sound good.
At least Newstalk have seen the light. Now let’s get the rest. They’re like a very nasty virus.
@Harry Roberts: Agreed. Cooper is now the most aggressivly PC presenter on air. It has ruined his show as he used to be a little more questioning. Read somewhere that he is looking for a new job so is proving his liberal/leftie credentials. Must be looking to compete with Fintan or Una in the IT.
@Guy Incognito: It was a joke. Calm down.
What George says on air pales into insignificance compared to what some other celebrities have been getting up to.
@John Quill:
What George say on air is similar to what the majority of the adult population say
Just change the channel if you don’t like what you hear.
Sitting at home waiting for something to lodge a complaint about.
I’d like to punch them in the face.
@John ward: The only problem with that, is that there are limited spaces available on the public airwaves, and, like in other countries, they are slowly being amalgamated into one or two big owners.
@John ward:You too seem like one any parent would be proud of. Why change channel Because a bully says you should
@Guy Incognito: sounds like someone loves the Dil.
Good man George..
@Luka Savić: Dil who?
Nice one, George, the only broadcaster worth listening to.
@Guy Incognito: slander? It’s a joke don’t get your knickers in a twist Dil.
God .. I miss you George .. That One at lunchtime is brutal !
I’d be fairly liberal, but I have to say, I love listening to Yates and enjoyed Hook when he was on air. Much better than listening to the crap 10 song playlists the other stations are churning out these days.
@Darren Bates: Could not agree more. And I’m definitely one of those libtard snowflakes- there are just too many signs for me to ignore it. Still, I did enjoy listening to George. He is very much a grandad figure, sure he’d say the wrong thing sometimes, but it was out of innocent ignorance, never malice. Hope he returns. Yates is good too!
@Number 14: Oh there you are! I have a bone to pick with you… I have only one account here mister! So there.
@Number 14: I feel a friendship blossoming!
@anthony campion: “Thats showbizz baby!” – Eamon Dunphy
‘Newstalk argued that Hook’s personality is central to the tone of the programme and the audience would be familiar with his “larger than life, gregarious and outspoken persona”’
So , then its ok for him to call people ‘shits’? Don’t see the logic there. Plenty of other broadcasters are like this but don’t refer to their listeners as ‘shits’. Glad to see the back of him and everything he represents (in a word, mediocrity)
@andrew: It’s okay to call people shits when they’re acting like shits…
@andrew: in a word yes, IF they act as such.
@Guy Incognito: what about his jokes though? Do you think they’re funny?
@Luka Savić: Got anything to back that up or are you just slandering for the craic?
We need more George hooks and the radio.
I’m sick of pc cheer leaders like mat Cooper. …
If only he was al porter the comments would be closed
There is one or two big sh*ta at Newstalk all right…..
Hookie boy always was a guttersnipe. Expecting anything better is silly.
What amuses me is that Hookie boy is as derogatory if not more derogatory of his admirers as he is off his detractors.
There is a living fossil quality to Hookie boy. It’s like he is a living remnant of thre 1950s. I can see why he has such a nostalgic appeal to the old reactionaries.
Expecting any better of Hookie boy is just silly.
@Fiona deFreyne: you can keep saying Hookie Boy all you like like a stuck record but it doesn’t change the fact that Newstalk had to reinstate him and get rid of the PC zombies. Because people like his straight talking and can’t stand Donohoe or any of his clones.
Clearly changing the dial works.
@Fiona deFreyne:
He called them a shit. Have you ever heard an adult call someone a shit in their life? Have you managed to get through life without calling someone a bad name. Earlier this afternoon you were saying all of our politicians were moral pygmies. Was that meant as a complement?
@Fiona deFreyne: ever think of changing the dial so you personally don’t have to listen to hook? You have a choice, so get give it a rest.
Sorry Hook was not on during the Circus that went on for the last week Our elected playing a game with the people they left in dire streets They all should be ashamed of themselves But that is only .for those with scruples This is not hindsight I posted the outcome 5 days ago and said that they would not retract t heir insults to Wallace and Daly who were right for years
Snowflake pc brigade….go and f….off.
This is disgraceful. It is protectionism of the media by their own. Irrespective of what the tweeter stated, there is a greater onus on the presenter to respond in an acceptable fashion. In this Hooke failed miserably and that should have been reflected by the BAI’s decision. What is the point of having regulators if they do not regulate properly and fairly? This type of regulation has already been seen in the banks etc.. Self regulation (or near enough) is akin to self protectionism. You can’t make exceptions just because you like someone. That is inequity at its best/worst. Hooke has run his show like his own personal soapbox, without giving those that he castigated a fair right of reply. Given that his bias was usually broadcast without any representative of those that he was doing down, present, then a fair right of reply was next to impossible. Even if he gave those an opportunity at another time to reject his bias, it is not equivalent to being able to respond at the initial broadcast. Statements even if biased carry greater weight when they go unchallenged, not to mention that the same audience will not be there on a different day.
I get why some people like listening to him as he is not “vanilla” like a lot of other presenters but I for one can’t stand his shows. He invites guests on who are quite often experts in their fields and then spends the whole interview interrupting them so he can lecture everyone on why he is right or trying to distil a complex statement down to two words that are not even relevant to the topic. Same old stories about his life rehashed a thousand times. I respect him for not being afraid to give an opinion but jesus he can bang on with the best of them. I for one will gladly take Ivan Yeats over him when stuck in the car on the way home!
@number14: Faceless and nameless, you’re a brave mouthpiece.
@Luka Savić: Yeah well, I’m sick of your unfunny bollocks.
@anthony campion: Do
Silly old man enjoy your comfortable retirement in Foxrock. L
I really think Hook is enjoying the notoriety and controversy.I wish he would just retire and go away.he IS a gruff arrogant old man and has done his time.
Get lost george please and leave us all alone.
You are like a cranky old neighbour.
Come on George Hook get back on air and make more of these morons run home to mammy.
have your say