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VIOLENCE AND RIOTS continued in Belfast for a second night with a number of arrests and injuries being reported by the PSNI.
Missiles, including petrol bombs, were thrown at police lines as they attempted to hold peace in the north and east of the city. Seven officers were injured but remained on duty.
Water cannon were deployed and AEPs (a type of projectile that replaced plastic bullets) fired by officers as they dealt with “isolated serious disorder” in the Woodvale area.
According to a statement issued this morning, officers were also attacked with fireworks, masonry, laser pens and “a whole range of weapons and missiles”.
One member of the PSNI was struck by a petrol bomb but was not injured. He remained on duty after being examined by medical personnel.
A petrol bomb hits riot police after it was thrown by loyalist rioters in the Woodvale area of north Belfast. (Image: Peter Morrison/AP/Press Association Images)
A total of 11 people were arrested last night and in the early hours of this morning, including a 40-year-old man who was questioned on suspicion of breach of the peace following a protest in Castlereagh Street in the east of the city. A 17-year-old boy and a 17-year-old girl were also detained on suspicion of riotous behaviour in separate incidents over the weekend.
The troubles have been described as both “sporadic” and “isolated” by the PSNI. They began shortly after 8.30pm and continued for several hours in places. Calm was restored at about 1.30am.
Police also responded to isolated incidents in the Rosapenna Street following reports that a number of petrol bombs had been thrown and in North Queen Street following calls that youths had attempted to block the road with burning pallets.
On Friday, 400 extra police officers were sent to Northern Ireland from Britain to ensure safe operations over the weekend during the traditional 12 July commemorations, the climax of marching season.
Friday saw the worst of the violence with 32 officers injured during riots.
The Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland re-issued an appeal for calm on the streets of Belfast last night.
“Violence is not only counterproductive but also just plain wrong,” it said. “We call on everyone who has the interests of the Institution at heart, despite the disastrous Parades Commission ruling, to immediately desist.”
Riot police deploy a water cannon after being attacked by loyalist protesters in north Belfast. (Image: AP Photo/Peter Morrison)
Chief Constable Matt Baggott described the scenes of 12 July as “shameful and disgraceful”, asking the leadership in the Order to reflect upon whether they provided the responsible leadership asked for and required.
“Some of their language was emotive, having called thousands of people to protest, they had no plan and no control, and rather than being responsible, I think the word for that is reckless.”
Loyalist rioters attack police in the Woodvale area of North Belfast. (AP Photo/Peter Morrison)
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The real problem for Madrid is that Barcelona and the Basque Country are centres of industry that generate huge amounts of money and without them Spain would be in big trouble, so for this reason the Spanish government have suspended democracy and have reverted back to a Franco type approach……..
@Sean Higgins: what about the French basques? Does brotherhood only extend to the rich industrial areas?
@Hurt Stoogie:
Errr the Basque country is completely separate from Catalonia.
I want Dublin to break away from the rest, if it hasn’t done so officially. Please vote for me!
@psychiatrist: we’d get on just fine without ye. And ye can forget about taking water from the Shannon too
Ireland was a nation before Britain subjugated us. Catalonia was never a nation state and Spain didn’t invade it. Yes, the civil war and its subsequent years were cruel and unusual. Independent Catalonia, what currency would the use? What league would Barca play in? Load of tosh this whole thing.
@Hurt Stoogie: The British have never invaded Ireland . The union of Britain was created by the Scots in 1707 when the Scottish monarchy (the Stuart’s ) that rule over the English for almost 300 yrs brought the Scottish and English parliaments together to form the Union .. The British army only goes back as far as the 16th century which the Irish where very much part of . It was the Irish that invaded and colonised Britain first long before the Normans came to Ireland . It was inevitable that these two small islands where always going to be involved in each other’s history . https://youtu.be/4vd8BnQJc5Y
@Tommy Whelan:
Clueless. 1169. The invasion continues to this day.
@Tommy Whelan: Tommy you claim to be a soldier, what do you think of the conduct of the British army in Ireland?
@Hurt, as someone married to a Catalan I suggest you hit the history books….
@Mr Phil Officer: Ireland was a collection of kingdoms, and were on the verge of uniting when the English came over and finished the job. This was not an invasion, as they set up an independent kingdom which they eventually unified in 1800. It doesn’t take away from the fact that the Irish were an independent state in all our name prior to the invitation of the Normans, and the right to a state derives from this. Catalonia is similar, and deserves the right to legal state autonomy on top of is cultural and historical nationality. Ffs, they let Andorra be a state!
@Mr Phil Officer: what do you think of the conduct of Irelands role in the British army since the 16th century . In the mid 18th century the Irish made up 40 percent of the British army . Irish military history is a amazing subject . The hundreds of battle honours the Irish where awarded for their service creating and defending the British empire .
@Tommy Whelan: Irish didn’t join the British army in significant numbers until the “legal” Penal laws were relaxed, economic conscripts later served or starved after the islands economy was deliberately destroyed.
@Mr Phil Officer: also you mention “the Irish invaded Britain at one time”, that’s correct, it was the descendants of these Irish that chased the fierce Romans off your island, you should be thankful.
@Mr Phil Officer: Maggie Thatcher met the British troops in S.Armagh and she said to them I want you to kill as many terrorists as you can and they did just that !!
@Gulliver Foyle: The ‘English’ did not set up an independent kingdom after the invasion. Ireland was ruled as a lordship until the Act of kingly title in 1541 established a kingdom.
@rich jezzer: Their aim wasn’t to good when it came to shooting loyalist terrorists.
@Mr Phil Officer: conscription has never existed in Ireland . It’s irrelevant if it’s a Irish catholic or a Irish Protestant. They are all Irish men .
@Tommy Whelan: The british empire was nothing but a pox on the world.
@Gulliver Foyle: English rule struggled to take root beyond the pale, even after the act of union was illegally declared they struggled to assert rule over the entire island, the brutal tactics and policies used in the mid 1800′s to fully control the island were also illegal.
@Sean Higgins: don’t we all have biased agenda’s growing up in where we come from? It’s finding the solution ,
@Tommy Whelan: seen you bring Schooled a while back claiming Ireland was part of the Union pre 1801. Your great at dishing out statistics about Irish percentages.in British army.
Why did Britain have an army spread across the globe. To keep people down, London a city built on the misery of slavery. When you do cop on you’ll realise tour shame at your allegiance to the butchers apron
@Gulliver Foyle:
Totally incorrect. Ireland had developed a high King system before Britain or many other countries, and was one country. There were sub kings and provinces below this. The Ard Ri was the subject of many wars and discord throughout the centuries before Christianity arrived and Christianity did little to end this,witness the struggles of Brian Boru to wreastle the Ard Ri ship from the O Neill’s of Ulster.This history is not taught in our schools so most people are not aware of it. This unfortunatly leaves us prey to the distortions of Irish history favored by many so called Irish “historians”.
@Shane Molloy: probably for the same reason as the 54 empires existed before them . Power .
@Con Murphy: Hi what books or websites would you recommend that aren’t distorted by “Irish historians” thanks for your time.
@Hurt Stoogie: Never mind football leagues, anyone can sew a flag or add new teams if the interest and support is there. Which language and culture is older, though? Ireland had a language and formal system of law and education long before British expansion. Both were suppressed. I think what most people want from any ruling system is not to be oppressed. To be able to amend unjust laws. Or to be heard out. It’s strange that the Spanish government can’t promote the language and hold the referendum – although I think they would be wise to follow the European recommendation that there should be a clear majority, not a tiny percentage for or against – that’s just divisive.
@Tommy Whelan: great answer squadie
@Tommy Whelan: You have some slant on Irish history Tommy . We may never have had conscription alright .You’ll have to read up on , cause and effect . you can do it while listening to this song , Arthur McBride .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hV9fvhCmbw
@Tommy Whelan: Bollox.economic conscription was in existence.
@Tommy Whelan: “The British have never invaded Ireland”
That’s an interesting twist on history. Not one I’d agree to but interesting all the same. So Britain didn’t create plantations in Ireland? Cromwell never stepped foot on Irish soil?
What history books did you read?
@Seán Ó Briain: Oliver Cromwell died in 1658 . The union of Britain wasn’t created till 1707 . Cromwell was a republican that wanted to turn Ireland into a republic . He took out his brutality against the Irish because they supported the monarchy and resisted his republic .
@Hurt Stoogie: Spain didn’t invade Catalonia? Excuse me, did you read anything about Catalonia’s history? What happened in the years before and after 1714, for example? About the currency, we would use the euro, just as Andorra does.
@Anna Dols: Yeah, in 1714 catalunya supported an alternative SPANISH king and the other king disputing the SPANISH crown attacked catalunya.
Catalunya was never a kingdom, that is a fact. Catalans were always, all the history under the control of another.
Anyway the problem in spain is the corruption and the R78, and independentis catalans are just supporting the right party so they keep the goverment. If Spain would have a working goverment, without corruption, without that amount of people living from doing nothing. Catalans will not even think about independence. They control their own taxes, their health system, their own police. Even they have their education system, Spanish
language is banned from their territory and you get a fine if you name your bussiness shop in spanish.
You wanna vote something were you decided who can vote and who can’t, without making clear what is considered a victory. That is not democratic.
Consider to support a goverment change in Spain, so you can later vote, if you still want.
Some more points.
You wanna get independent with a new law that forbird that any part of catalunya get independent, even if there are parts that have their own language and their own culture.
Spain have a list telling which countries can have double nationality. If your country is not in that list you CANT have the double nationality.
You can use the euro, but you cant control it, so you will have to pay your debts in a coin you dont control. That is a bad idea.Compare the public debt of andorra and public debt of catalunya.
I guess it is hard to see it from inside.
@Hurt Stoogie: Well its not for them is it, way before the British ever invaded Ireland, the Spanish (Barbaric as they always are) invaded the South America’s, wiped out the Incas & Mayans, stole all their Gold, Silver and precious Stones and Statues. Invaded many other Countries and committed the same crimes, then there was the Spanish Armada; they fought the Royal Navy, which was probably a mistake as the Royal Navy, was quite impressive then! The result is History. However, Spain and Argentina are of similar guile, they wish against the will of the People, to change legal History with trying by force to invade and take that Country by force if need be.
Catalonia, and prior to that the Falklands; and recently Gibraltar, which is a fellow NATO Country. Moreover, when the Russian Navy where in the vicinity, and were low on Fuel, allowed them to Refuel, in a NATO Port? How can they be trusted?
@Mr Phil Officer: Like every Soldier the legal ones that is (and not the KKK) and not having served in Ireland, only in easy going places like Malaya, Borneo, Labuan and Kuchin, that was a little hairy, big Batangs there! On the British Soldiers in Ireland well; they could have been, Scottish, Welsh or even Aussie one would it matter, or are you aiming at just the British one’s, I would think that you are singling them; out as being the worst, have you ever been in any Military, or are you a “Civvy” which is even worse, have you ever been under fire, have you ever had “Flash Bangs” thrown directly at you, have you been involved with “Bush Warfare”? Answer some of these queries, instead of targeting the British Soldier all the time, and your legal System still targeting the Vets of 30 years ago, instead of bringing to the Courts the real guilty ones that hid their guilty faces, and still are?
@Hurt Stoogie: So Spain never invaded Catalonia …. you should check, as a suggestion, what happened over there around 1640 and around 1714. There was even a guy in Spain who said that Barcelona should be bombed every 50 years. About the currency, a new created country can have the currency they choose, or isn´t Andorra using the euro, for example? Equador uses de US dollar! about football … who cares about that? not as important as the future of an entire country. Visca Catalunya.
How not to manage a crisis!
Catalan should have been permitted to hold the referendum without any interference and then negotiate the results!
These shortsighted, ham fisted efforts to thwart the referendum is bolstering support for ascesion and may result in violence!
Give Catalan the vote, support Catalan independence!
@Jarlath Murphy: Viva la Spania
The Act of Union and British law was illegal in the first place. The fact that the overwhelming majority later democratically voted for home rule which was denied multiple times eventually led to the birth of this great nation, a similar event occurred in America but no one would have the balls to tell them that their country was illegal.
@Mr Phil Officer: Home Rule wasnt denied. It was postponed til after the war. The 1916 undemocratic paramilitaries went on a murder spree and along with UVF nutters in the north introduced the gun in to Irish politics.
@AR Devine: ” Home Rule wasnt denied.”
It was on two different occasions. It took three attempts for them to consider it.
@Seán Ó Briain: It was eventually passed thats what Im talking about
A difference between Ireland and Catalonia is that the Spanish government is not threatening a war if Catalonia does not sign a ‘peace treaty’ dividing Catalonia as we were and which led to a civil war.
@winston smith: it wouldn’t be the first time an “historian” span the facts to suit a narrative.
Catalonians are being denied democracy, it’s a warning to others in the EU to tow the line or be labelled “nazis and radicals”.
@Mr Phil Officer: Spain is a democracy and the people who live in the Catalan region helped vote in the current Spanish government. They also celebrated with other Spaniards, a Spaniards, when Spain won the World Cup. Catalonia is a province of Spain, it isn’t a nation.
@Hurt Stoogie: Now, it could have been the part where he was but my auld lad was in Barcelona during that final and said the vast majority didnt give a hoot about it and celebrated only for the lads from the north eat.
@winston smith: err… we started a war with the British, the treaty referendum was to get our side to stop fighting them (they really couldn’t care less, and regretted letting ni have the opt out). We actually allowed the Northern Ireland politicians to decide to cede from Ireland, which they did, again before a referendum. Catalonia are going the right way, and there is no threat to splitting Catalonia – all or nothing is the option on the ballot.
@Hurt Stoogie:
I can’t believe this needs explaining, but the issue is that not all Catalans see it that way.
@Gulliver Foyle:
Deluded, so the British Empire had nothing to do with any of this? We did not invade our own country and start a war with the British Empire.It was the other way around.
@Hurt Stoogie: I live in Catalonia, and I can tell you we voted something completely different than the PP, the winning party. You can check the voting maps online: Blue is the PP, red is PSOE, purple is Podemos and yellow is ERC which is basically a party that wants the Independence. Now take a look at that map and you can see everywhere is blue BUT CATALONIA and a couple of other regions, so it’s obvious we did not wanted the PP at all. That party was not even on the top 3 of Catalonia. So don’t tell me we voted that cuz it’s obvious we did not. Are is one of the maps so you don’t waste you precious time, enjoy:
http://elecciones.levante-emv.com/resultados-elecciones/generales/
This upsurge of Nationalism is a symptom of the general feeling of not being in control ,the E U is seen as undemocratic and dictatorial and under the control of France and Germany,Spain’s Government has overplayed its hand ,and it is only a matter of time before civil disorder breaks out.
Independence will come,Spain will only create problems for itself by bully boy tatcics,jaw jaw now Spain or the time wasted
I was in Barcelona and witnessed one of these demonstrations. I was proud to add my voice …”Pucc demanar una amanida de pollastre i una aigua escamosa si us plau?”
It was a Catalan court that ruled the referendum illegal. Although people seem to believe courts = government for whatever reason despite the clear necessity for a separation of powers in a democracy.
@Old Gordon: no doubting the necessity for separation of powers but naive in the extreme to believe that that separation is total in any country.
You have to love the way everyone in the comments ‘knows’ which nation is ‘more real’. The problem here are the concepts of nation and nation state, not the specifics. By all means self-determine and organise yourselves at whatever scale and structure you fancy, but using such ill-defined, divisive and frankly ahistorical ideas lies at the heart of much that is wrong with the world.
@Tordelback: First rule of nationalism – we are different from everyone else.
@Harry Whitehead: But evidently they do have their own ways, which aren’t being respected equally. Think about how British rulers took some time to learn English, but it was eventually put to them that their subjects would strongly prefer to be addressed in English, that English was not about to die off. Why deny such a basic voice to people, if not to abuse power? One size doesn’t suit everyone, how could it?
To not deny Catalonia independence will break up all European countries, and ultimately the EU, pushing Europe into oblivion. It’s a faux pas to compare Ireland 1917 to Europe 2017.
@psychiatrist: its really wont….
@Paul: Bet is on :)
The legacy of the French Revolution is dictatorship? This is very much an opinion piece, that should be taken with a pinch of salt.
“It should be remembered that our own independent government came into being as a result of a similar “illegal” action.”
From where did England derive it’s mandate to legislate for Ireland? It never did so the action of 1918 was not illegal because England’ presence in Ireland had no legality.
The Catalans are not being denied democracy. For a start they have a form of Home Rule in their own parliament. Their language is taught in schools. A huge portion of them have parents grandparents and ancestors from other parts of Spain. In opinion polls roughly about 50 percent of Catalans dont want to leave Spain. Surely the compromise of home rule they have should be sufficient as it should have been here before the 1916 paramilitary groups here with almost zero mandate introduced the gun along with UVF nutters in to Irish politics
And years of civil war, mass murder, will be the answer if they want to break away.
@Jonathan Byrne:
If Madrid choose to oppose any democratic Catalan vote to secede then yes, that’s a possibility.
@Avina Laaf: conspiracy theory, left agenda, reality right agenda.
@Jonathan Byrne:
I haven’t the faintest idea what you’re trying to say.
Unfinished business.
The Basques should be leading the way here.The will of the people cannot be ignored.
@Trevor Dunne: what about the roughly 50 percent of Catalans that dont want to leave Spain?
@AR Devine: Polls regularly show that 70-80% of Catalans want a referendum, so evidently that figure also includes unionist and non-aligned voters:
The struggle for Catalonian independence is a narrowly nationalist struggle. It is a struggle that does not serve the interests of the working class. It represents one segment of the capitalist class whose interests are served better by independence. It further splits the Spanish working class. The working class can only promote its interests by struggling for a Spanish social revolution.
Yes , divided in 2.
the struggle for Catalonia is fought from many fronts. historical working class human rights and financial. Spanish government has been strangling the Catalan nation by returning much less than what is contributed putting their language on an inferior foot and a claim to legality that was forced rather than negotiated. no self respecting Irish wants to be called English as no self respecting Catalan wants to identify with Spain a conquering fascist nation proceeding of feudal lords and conquistadors…read a bit more on this guys…
Won’t somebody please think of the boundary commission 1926 before spouting nonsense about NI v ROI?
@@kudzu_dub: it was a whitewash whereby the northern state was enlarged. What of it?
@@kudzu_dub: Won’t somebody please think of the children .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo
have your say