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SINN FÉIN AND Fianna Fáil have disputed leaked legal advice to Irish Water that water charges cannot be abolished.
Today’s Irish Times and Irish Examiner report on legal advice that the utility got in the wake of the general election which says that there is no option under EU law to return to not charging for water.
The papers report that the advice states that Ireland can no longer avail of a derogation from charges under the EU Water Framework Directive having legislated for their introduction in 2013.
Irish Water has since said that the advice confirms Ireland must charge for water. The company said in a statement:
In light of recent queries regarding water charges, independent legal advice was sought by Ervia, which confirms that, under European law, Ireland is now obliged to charge for water services.
This tallies with legal advice TheJournal.ie obtained as part of its FactCheck on the abolition of water charges last month. The article concluded that the EU Water Framework Directive would be a major legal obstacle to scrapping charges.
But Sinn Féin disputed this today, with Dublin MEP Lynn Boylan insisting that there was nothing to stop Ireland from reverting back to paying for water through general taxation.
She called on Irish Water to publish the legal opinion in full. However, the utility did not respond to a query from TheJournal.ie about whether it would publish the advice.
Boylan argued that the European Commission had stated “in black and white” that there is no obligation on any EU member state to use any particular method or scheme to recover the cost of water provision.
“We have it in black and white from the Commission, regardless of a legal opinion or not, saying that there’s no obligation on Ireland to use individual consumption to be fully in compliance with the water framework directive. We have that in black and white,” she said.
She said that the derogation is written into the Water Framework Directive and cannot be removed unless there is a legislative change at EU level which requires the agreement of all 28 member states.
“It’s [the derogation] not only open to Ireland and it has been used in the past by Scotland, by the North of Ireland, by the Czech Republic, by Bulgaria and by regions in France,” she said.
It’s a flexibility that’s written into the Water Framework Directive to allow that the people who manage the water to have flexibility around full cost recovery.
She described the timing of the leaked legal opinion as “very suspicious” claiming it allowed Fianna Fáil to “get off the hook” and say it cannot abolish water charges.
However Fianna Fáil, which also disputes the legal advice, insisted today that it does not support the “continued imposition of water charges on households”
Its public expenditure spokesperson Seán Fleming insisted that the framework directive allows member states an opt-out of water charges.
He added: “Even without the opt-out clause in Article 9.4 of the EU water directive, the government’s own flat-rate water charges would not be compliant with the principle of incentive water pricing included in the directive.
We do not believe there is any basis for concluding from the directive that any future Irish government is tied to water charges. In fact, we believe it is entirely possible for the next government to suspend water charges and invest in our water infrastructure.
Originally published: 5.30pm
A propaganda stunt…Water tax will be abolished..I’ll be delighted when Right2Water get what we all want, a referendum to enshrine ownership of our water supply in public hands, preventing another Irish Water fiasco in future.
FG/FF, pulling the levers again and trying to push it in under the door with lies.
Pull my finger!
Did anyone see the question in the upcoming Census about “water in your home”? Supply type, sewage/wastewater type, etc.?
Another angle for the cute hoors to gain information by stealth.
Just say, Dampness!
If FG and labour brought in a tax that cannot be reversed then that amounts to treason in my opinion. Theses people have no regard for the people of this country. Prison is too good for them
Dave…and they saw fit to lecture US about pulling on the green jersey? Our elites actually HATE the ordinary irish…
@ Dave, I emailed the Census office and asked them would any information be given to IW, I got a very quick and precise response, that under no circumstances is any information shared with any organisation. You’ll see their privacy policy on their site
Irexit anyone ?
I am Irish I live in Ireland I owe nothing to Europe and Europe is irrelevant to me. I am not European Irish just like I am not a Roman Catholic. What does Europe want do they want me to ignore I am Irish so they can bash the income out of my pocket.
Here my message I am Irish Europe dictates can go and get lost if they think we have no right to decide for our own country. We are not all Enda Kennys or Finna Failers. I am Irish, I have a vote, I live in Ireland and yes I celebrated the 1916 Rising which was about governing ourselves and deciding for our selves. Europe is going to break up the sooner the better.
Doesn’t the same company that Carrys out the census not provide customer services to Irish water ?
Nope. The CSO carries out the census.
“What have the Romans ever done for us?”
Irish Water was set up to get around the fact that the Local Authorities couldn’t charge for water services under existing legislation.
But, if Irish Water insist on charging for water, a nominal fee of €1 / yr would cover that particular requirement!
“Legal advise” confirming IW’s own position “leaked” ? Yeah sure.. we believe ya!!!
Yep, just like the leaked the 46% compliance figure for the first bills, which we then found out was actually 29% via an FOI request.
I am sure we can trust those kind of corporate policy makers to ensure no short cuts are taken in the treatment of our drinking water.
Pity The FF, FG , Labour & IW
Don’t Leak Their Perk’s
And All Their Lie’s …………………………
What’s the legal advise ?… Considering an mep is saying this .. Why doesn’t some journalist seek clarification from the EU commission
.that there is no obligation on any EU member state to use any particular method or scheme to recover the cost of water provision.
“We have it in black and white from the Commission, regardless of a legal opinion or not, saying that there’s no obligation on Ireland to use individual consumption to be fully in compliance with the water framework directive.
So Irish water show the legal reasons…
charging vrt on cars is illegal under European law so I don’t see the big issue we already break eu laws. just abolish the water charges and be done with it
Leaked legal advise.. But not the actual advise just the part about not being able to scrap the charges.. You couldn’t make the nonsense up..
We are already paying for our water and to try and charge us again for the same service is Fraud understand Fraud!! And no legal advice is needed ok!!
The battle for e ending water charges is won now for free electricity
Die irish water. DIE!
Richard.ive heard it’s the same with the tv licence. And also maybe something to do with the rights of a child. I reckon you could find multiple examples of directives and laws broken by the Irish government that they don’t seem to fussed over so why this big who hah over water?
Water charges have always been collected in Ireland through other means of taxation.
VRT is illegal under EU law as already stated by Richard Cynical yet our government continue to flout this.
Bye Bye irish Water !!!!!
@ Frank: The main MEP fighting the cause in Europe is on the case…..
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/39149
“Irish Water should publish the legal advice it received in full as it does not tally with the information my office has received from the EU Commission.
Our view is that there is nothing to stop Ireland from using the derogation and we have that in black and white from the EU Commission.”
it’s a total farce aoife and sounds like someone is clutching for excuses that it can’t be abolished, on the other hand I’d happily pay water charges if they got rid of vrt and TV license.
They’re clutching for a way out of this fiasco that leaves them without egg on their faces.
All the lies they told us especially the colossal one about compliance.
Vulgar vultures the lot of them.
Richard. Why on earth would you break EU law by allowing yourself to be a party to vrt and the tv licence scandal. As has been pointed out we have no obligation to charge for water or tv licence or vrt. The laws the law even when it doesn’t suit you.
Patrick Gough. Water charges existed before Irish water. Did you not know that?
The corpse that just refuses to be buried..
Haha, Our politicians crack me up. Can change the law to create IW quango, can’t change the law to get rid of it. Can change the law to legally give themselves pay rises, can’t change the law to reverse it. Can change the law to forceably take unpaid water bills directly out of people bank accounts but no laws forcing them to pay for their beer in their dail bar. Then when it comes to running the country, they’re great at raising taxes and filling the state coffers, but rubbish at pretty much everything else.
Adrian…bery good.
I used to be undecided but now I’m not so sure…
Off course it can be scrapped and it will be scrapped. Irish people have come too far and ain’t for turning.
Who do people think have been paying for “Our” water supply so far? We have, its never been free! As for this latest attempt, its a joke/ lies again. Put our water services into public ownership, then we can talk. Say NO to privatisation for all our sakes!
Colette, its just been revealed that Teneo, the company of a certain Minister for the environments brother, has been lobbying the Irish government at European level. This company deals with large scale infrastructure projects e.g. water. The same minister pushing water charges like a little bullyboy and who is on record stating power is like a drug.
Why do it in Europe? Well, because they don’t have to enter themselves on the Irish register of lobbyists
“Three meetings each were held with representatives of Google and Teneo Holdings, a US-based global advisory firm headed up by Declan Kelly, whose brother, Alan, is environment minister……
Alter-EU said the report showed lobbyists are able to exploit a loophole in EU transparency rules which enables them to lobby permanent representations of EU states in Brussels without being registered.
At least one in five meetings was with companies and organisations that were not listed on the current EU register of lobbyists.
In addition, any party which is based outside Ireland and only lobbies the government’s permanent representation in Brussels is not strictly obliged to register with the new register of lobbyists introduced in Ireland last year.”
This is getting extremely serious now.
Agree with no privitisation, keep it in public ownership, every user pay a bit and it will be fair.
Kellys next move will be interesting. Become the king pin in a dead party or move to FG as middle ranking. No surprise Teneo are involved.
And Kerry, should “the user who uses most, pay the most”?
Such as the Agri and other sectors who account for 77% of all treated water usage in the State, yet pay only 20% of the cost of production?
IW is nothing more that a quango to front load the cost burden onto ordinary Joe Soap
Collette. This is what i have said all along, keep it public and continue to take the 2% from vat and the 5% from road tax and put it back into water, which the Government are not doing.
Kerry. We already pay, the money is misused per usual by the Government.
Would Irish Water like to “leak” how much this “legal advice” cost?
The slugs will try any oul’ trick to keep this scam going now. No person I have spoken to that has paid their water bills before the election, intends to pay any such bill since.
More bulls*it from Irish water
I paid since the election, great value, €4 a week. Cut the damn usc by a tenner and all workers will be bettet off.
Kerry..you dont drive an Audi A6 by any chance?
I’ve no problem in principle paying for water once it’s fair and equitable, but’s there’s not a hope in hell I’ll ever give those arrogant gits in Irish Water a red cent.
Maintain john tierneys pension…..
and keep the PR woman from having to move to another disastrous waste of taxpayers money
Ah yes..fraulein Arnett….future personal secretary to beautiful big Phil…shes female you see…
Legislation hahaha. If we had of all stuck together and simply not paid….then the that piece of legislation is rendered useless. It is us that have control on whether the charges are received or not. Ignore all the updates and articles, if we don’t pay then thats it!
Fear is the main reason people paid. Older people afraid that they could get into trouble or get cut off. Younger people afraid that not paying could lead to any company that uses credit checks not giving them credit in future.
75% of the IRB followed Redmond to war in 1915 leaving a core of 25% who knew where they stood. Seems nothing has changed. A lot of irish people fall at the first fence. Wheres your balls people.?
…pay for the continuing leaseplan for the 60 audi A6′s……
I paid because it cost more to produce a litre of clean water than a kw.h of electricity. A litre of bottled costs 15 x a litre of brent crude oil
“your water will be turned down to a trickle” ….big phil hogan before he became the most important and best paid politician ireland ever produced..an intellectual monolith..a never ending source of pride for ireland – was elected TD on the 13th count!!!!!!
You paid twice Patsy.
Do you think we should look at whether the Irish people are getting value for money on providing electricity and bring that into the discussion. @ Patrick
How many millionaires/billionaires were made from the privatization of ESB network ? Did we win on that front?
Is that the best stone to pick to start looking under Patrick?
Irish water is gone there are a few people in denial still….. a handful !
Irish water hires lawyers – receives advice from them that Irish Water has to stay. Surprise surprise. In other news, turkeys commission report, report finds eating turkey causes colon cancer, tukeys leak report Christmas week.
First off, why is a private utility company looking for legal advice, rather than the government, on whether or not a government can take an action?
Second of all, this was leaked by Irish Water. How do we know they did not also receive advice seperately stating the opposite, but are sitting on it?
A complete red herring. And the advice is based on moving to a practice of ‘not paying for water’. It is not that we are not allowed to return to paying through progressive taxation, as we always have done.
Ultimately its the taxpayer who will have to foot the bill for this ‘advice’, and SERIOUS questions need to be asked re: if Irish Water has acted outside its remit spending our money in this way.
Irish Water needs to die.
Last gasp of IW…..the smell of fear…
Fine Fail flag flying !!! 70 per cent voted to get rid of Irish water in the election. Time to move on and stop wasting money.
That’s nonsense the election wasn’t just a single issue event
I am guessing your a blue shirt then…
Only people who failed to see that the last election was a one policy election were the people committing the crime members of the Fine Gael party.
It is an incredibly sad thing, to witness this absolute nonsense propaganda, that make doubt about it, is designed to favour FG and FF to go into coalition with a get it of jail free card in their hands.
A day after such a fantastic weekend celebrating the gallantry and bravery of men and women who fought and died for our independence, to read this rubbish is very sobering, to the fact that the people running this country are not worthy to hold the office which many gave their life to establish.
If they want to abolish water charges they can do it but they have no inclination to do so, again election promises broken and Irish citizens taken as fools.
I think Leo would be in for a surprise, to know just how many people do, in fact, have an appetite or another election.
Its scrapped in my house coz i aint f:uckin payin for something im already payin fir through income tax, rank cheek of the gits and then sell it to that greedy tit DOB. Im angry
the propaganda regarding irish water and the need to keep it is coming thick and fast. other articles are saying how the ff/fg government negotiations are hinging on IW. All of this is geared towards giving FF an out. IW is going through its death throws right now. The endless media barrage trying to justify it is utter bull####.
Put the issue of public ownership of natural resources to a referendum at the same as abortion and just be done with this crap.
“All of this is geared towards giving FF an out.”
Bingo. Prepare for the full force fo RTE and INM running pieces ad infinitum about how the charges cannot legally be scrapped, followed by a FG/FF deal, followed by a shrugging/smirking Michael Martin explaining that theres nothing he can do.
@ For Connolly well said the indo has printed this fairy tale story already.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/irish-water-crisis/250000-homes-face-boilwater-notices-irish-water-warns-34583026.html
Actually Shane most people have stuck together and the ones who paid are now beginning to kop on and stop paying. Its finished.
All information coming from Hugh O’Connell of the Journal who is the brother of Kate O’Connell of FG must be taken with a grain of salt Or FG policy
So that’s the connection, well done Cormac. so its not a schoolgirl crush that Hugh has for all thing Enda, No wonder he seemed so relaxed in RTE. I fear Hugh’s credibility in reporting anything political is now only an option piece.
I was thinking there had to be some link. He doesn’t even try to hide his love of the blueshirts/fascists anymore.
Aha! So..its genetic then..soo many posters here accused him of being a shill for FG…
It wasnt some much that he was accused Peter, rather he came across that way in his writings. His articles read more like FG party PR than news.
Then introduce new leglislation against water charges an they can be scrapped
It’s legislation at European level which allegedly prevents the scrapping of water charges, not national level. That being said it’s complete rubbish given the fact that the legislation giving us a free pass to use general taxation in place of direct consumption charges has never been changed.
It is another reason to step back from the EU. They cannot pass laws that are in the interest of all nations in the union. They only seem to pass laws in interest of the bigger ones
The Irish Government legislated to introduce water charges in compliance or under the EU Directive so the Irish Government can scrap this if there is a will to do it
One wonders if a deal by FG has already been struck to privatise IW.
Would agree, thinking ahead as they do I’m sure their cronies are already lined up at the trough. And no guesses whose out in front..
leaked? to two newspapers? yeah, right – it was deliberate
And not the irish leak – they are a very unprofessional organisation to put it mildly.
Isn’t VRT also illegal under EU regulations?
Somehow that’s not a problem, as it’s cost effective to ignore a law when the charge brings in more in revenue than the government have to pay in fines.
The problem with IW will be not that it’s illegal, but that ignoring the EU and breaking that law doesn’t screw the Irish public and bring in revenue.
excellent comment about the VRT…
Well IW would say that, wouldn’t they. Just one more lie in the history of lies that IW has, with the colusion of the government, spun. It looks like whatever government is formed, they are going to force the payment of these iniquitous charges on people. Barry Cowan wasn’t telling a lie when he said they would go after everybody by all means to force payment. Looks like we will have either another election, with IW being the sole issue, or we will have a revolution.
I wouldn’t be inclined to believe this as it was all Denis O Brien news papers thay reported it first. But I believe France and a few other countries went from private to public water slupply without any breach of EU law.
Why would anyone believe anything,Irish water says,
Lies on top of lies,
You mean to tell me these guys can legally get us to vote for somethin like the Lisbon Treaty twice, but it’s impossible to scrap a company that no one is paying for?
Ill never forget the interview where senor tierney blithely announced that he presided over the spending of 80million on consultants for the set up of IW……and he was “miffed” that he had to repeat it..and was asked for an explanation!!! He made alex white look like an apprentice pickpocket!! That was one of,if not the actual last,interview he gave…he couldnt be trusted not to rat out his chums or perhaps brag about his historic pocket-stuffing…
IW are really desperate now.. Times up for this quango. FG /Lab will pay heavily also.. Cost so much and will now be abandoned as was always gonna be the case. Taxed out Ireland will not pay anymore bankers debt..
Total B.S.
What’s next, prisoners assessing themselves for payroll. Good luck Irish Water.
Parole. Damn you predictive text.
Wont solicitors give you ANY advice you want? If you are prepared to pay the asking?
You mean “if you’re prepared to use taxpayers money to pay the asking” ?
It depends on what the customer is after Peter. Naturally a solicitor would be only too happy to give his honest legal opinion if that’s what you actually need. But, especially in bigger firms, there’s also frequently a service for providing what are called “justifiable opinions” which may not necessarily represent the personal views of the solicitor writing the report, but rather represent a possible, reasonable opinion and provide justification from that perspective.
Paddy…true…they will certainly use taxpayers money to fund hubert “its not as if anyone died” kearns multi million pension…
Its just a load of spin and bluster ,Irish Water as a company is slowly sinking ,People who have no intention of paying for water 3 and 4 times ,Even IF what Irish water leaked out about legal advice Was true it would never make any difference as i am sure people will just ignore the bills / demands for payment .Any politician /party that rolls back about scraping water charges should take a close look at the number of Liebour T.Ds returned after the general election .
The so called advice is incorrect. This Government (and its predecessor) have consistently sought to deceive the Irish people by hiding behind EU legislation which they interpret to suit their purposes. Enough of these lies and nonsense.
Another recent,unpatriotic,shameful,enormous,cynical,selfish lie told to us recently by these pocket stuffers FG/FF/Liebour….that the EU would NOT allow any remedial works on the shannon river…..LIE!!
Wouldn’t believe a word from IW or FG/Labour or the EU – The sell out of the Irish People and our Country to the highest bidders.
More propaganda from Irish Water and Fine Gael. The EU doesnt stipulate that we have to pay Water charges. Although they will probably look for another source of potential income to replace the proposed budgeted income from the previous badly led FG government
they said it wasn’t an election issue despite more people not paying than voted for them in their landslide.They put their bully boy into set it up stopping inquiries into planning in his own back yard at the time – with a promise of big job in Brussels. When things got rough – you had to ask when Kelly wanted this job. His brother of course.
It is close to election nua 2016 and water will be the dominate it. The dynamics will be very intresting.
What a load of crap!! Leaked legal advice?? This is hilarious. FF are delighted. This slow pathetic build up to a grand coalition is getting too much.
Funny how we must follow the legal route when it suits but not when it’s the people telling the government to follow the law. Ffs
Purely a ploy by FG to supposedly strengthen their hand when they go into government with FF. Also benefits FF when they renege on their promise to scrap water charges. Cynical but typical politics in Ireland.
I don’t know why people keep saying “the government” we don’t have a government people. It was dissolved weeks ago
Sweet baby jabus… Is Irish water still bumbling on?
Never paying end of story.
No to the corrupt attempt to privatise our water supply!
Are we a FREE SOVEREIGN STATE or not ?????
No we are a republic and don’t have a sovereign as head of state
We have a janitor dictator, and an EMC, presided over by the same janitor dictator.
Not sovereign- we are a corporation as is every citizen
‘The public DO NOT want Irish Water. – let’s call in the bully boys in Europe’
WON’T WORK.
Any party thinking of participating in the next government better Heed this advice.
Scrap Irish Water or face the consequences from the electorate.
You’ve been warned.
AGAIN!
Irishexit? ??
Of course they can be scrapped.
We just need the vast majority of the Dail, 100-odd TDs who oppose water charges to form a government.
Should be simple….. why won’t they do it?
Who paid for the legal advise ?? the fools the fools oh the fools. We are some nation led by fools and after telling Kenny and his canal of advisors we don’t want him the D4 media people can’t get enough of them the fools.
Already pay through taxation, will not be paying IW too. I’ve no problem paying for it once but not twice!!
“Bridge over troubled water, I will lay you down “
You can take that Liewyers opinion with a drink of water. High cost bunkum. Time for Eirexit!
Have we completely and utterly handed away our hard won national sovereignty, our right to decide how our citizens pay tax? If there was a 2016 rising it would be against the Central Bank and the EU offices in Dublin that have steadily worked to remove our right of self-determination.
So now the media is spouting about EU legalities regarding Irish Water in order to save its costly backside …but hang on, what about the EU laws that Fine Gael and Labour was willing themselves – and possible did – break also that they could screw the people of Ireland more financially when it suited just them?
Yes, the VRT and EU Competition laws of course.
What? They didn’t mention any of this to you. Stuff that – read on!
The parties of Fine Gael and Labour have massive back-stabbed their own people over this issue but they are not on their own. In double-standards they allowed a ‘free pass’ Ireland had over water charges, to sneakily quietly lapse – and their friendly media buried this lapsing by keeping their print-type presses unused to highlight its deadline coming and crossing.
Irish Water, the company has been a disaster since its foundation. People that were put in charge of it from the start, had previous expertise of complete huge disasters – ones also that turned out too, mega-expensive besides an operational balls-up!
Our elected stupid then for some more crazy reason, put these questionable people in charge of the business. Eventually in time some would jump ship before their term of contract was up, talking with them still, a huge pension and lump of public money in exit payment.
Let not forget that it indeed is a business. “Irish Water” whatever else it is – it is registered with the Irish Companies Registration Office (cro.ie) as a registered PRIVATE business. Why repeated asked why this was done, our national elected either repeatedly tried changing the topic or just refused to answer. Hell, even some of the paperwork coming from Irish Water had printed on the very bottom, its footer, that it was a private company.
For idiots to turn around then with this fact and more, espousing that Irish Water was not a private company, betrayed another level of stupidity from elected and their again convenient blind, lying supporters.
Another (deliberate?) screw-up? Irish Water was not and still being not to date of its existence, answerable to the National Ombudsman. Unlike other state services that operate for the nations people, through the National Ombudsman they could at least try hold such services to question and account. Irish Water? Not so.
Why was Irish Water set-up in this way also? Fine Gael and Labour once again are ducking answering that too – as are RTE and other biased media ducking putting that question to them and thus not holding them to account!
Why was indeed Irish Water set-up so inherently different from all our other state services that Fine Gael and Labour tried repeatedly to PR shove down throats that “They were all the same”.
Cobblers!
The simple fact is that Irish Water was and is a complete different entity. The public however in this too, was not supposed to mass kop this also. Biased media here too was saying nothing!
So what is the quiet agenda for Irish Water as long as it exists? Officially, the public agenda is to look after our national water and its associated services. Sounds grand in PR don’t it?
The public was supposed to remain uninformed about a number of things though?
• It’s a private company also. Why? Quiet agenda?
• Non-answerable to the Ombudsman – and elected won’t make it so still. Why the refusal? Quiet agenda?
• Elected government repeatedly refuse to constitute that it cannot be sold off. Why? Quiet agenda?
• Elected refuse to state constitution guarantee that our water and its related connected public services, including land and materials, cannot be given away at all for a price or for free in transfer of goods through departments. Why the refusal? Quiet agenda?
• Elected fail to mention that Irish Water is just part puzzle piece of the TTIP Treaty and its agenda to see that public services are made more open to privatisation and thus private profit gain. Even the TTIP Treaty states it’s an overall aim = agenda!
Of course of the honourable and more upfront elected was to do any of the above, the TTIP agenda would be hampered now and further down the road.
Why? Only because the public would have to be gotten back to, for their constitution change permission vote to allow a further privatisation of water public services. If the disreputable refuse to give the public initially what they seek, constitution guarantees, the later problem of trying to gain their permission so more private profiteers can rake in more wealth, could be total avoided. The public is not supposed to mass learn this either though! The biased media here too is saying and exposing nothing.
In PR spinning and outright lies, both Irish Water, media and elected have continuously scraped the bottom of their rotten quiet agenda barrel. Lies over procedures, lies over numbers, lies over the company itself, lies over protesting numbers, lies over the numbers of non-payers into their press-ganged contracts, lies even of those that were forced to register – but still didn’t pay, lies over its legal formation, lies over people involved surrounding it, lies over their agenda, lies over money, lies over individuals quiet awarded non-tendered (when they should be) contracts …and more!
Another example of completely breaking the law of the state by the Fine Gael and Labour Party, was the awarding of the job managing our water and services even before it was a fully legal registered entity. In Irish Law and European law, here alone it is highly questionable as to the legal basis that they were given the role.
Even worse, the PRIVATE company was possibly also given people’s personal data before it was also full legal registered. It gets better. The company had possibly not fulfilled all its EU legal insurance requirements before any such info or work, should have been allocated to it. Frankly, the whole company sticks of illegal operations and possible more illegal actions carried out by those aiding or abetting the farce.
Will those people be exposed and be held accountable? Not if Fine Gael, Labour and others can help it. You can be sure national media that is more friendly towards them, will continue to say nothing about all this and will go out of its way not to inform the people once again what has gone on in their name and at their very costly expense.
Another point – has many noticed that the once “water allocation allowance” that was used in PR terms, to ‘sell’ Irish Water to the public, has in fact now quietly disappeared? Where is all the politicians that sang this once PR pitch? They have all too shut-up about that matter also and have hoped the Irish people have not massed kopped onto that allowance vanish too!
You, the citizen of course is not supposed to overall spot the double-standards while you are further more financial screwed. So please continue to roll over – again and accept your Fine Gael and Labour continued lot?
…O’ and please overlook that the previous government was willing to break EU laws and say nothing about it – while now they use EU laws to try continue the Irish Water charging racket, in more of their now normal double-standards!
Look you can’t tie a rope around the sun either.
Irish water, all that money spent, not only have they not fixed the leaks, they are now causing them.
Where is the receipt to prove mother nature sold her water for profit?
Where is the contract showing She gave permission to sell her water to anyone.
She gave and gives us- her children all we need for free, but many are only interested in profiting from Her.
So where does the vrt on cars sit with this one when there not supposed to charge for it. Can I have my 4000 euro back then
Ah the death throws of a mortally wounded beast. Will someone please put it out of our misery :)
More crap. I don’t care what they say. I’m not paying again. End of
Maybe I just skipped the part where we should pay when cronyism is involved..I will read it again.
Irish water,a company up the swanee without a paddle, grasping at straws, but there is none there.the cheek of them to lie to the Irish people.
We own this country and all its resources including the water already. We will say what happens to our property, this is a republic not a dictatorship. If it takes a general strike and we all gather in our millions on a chosen day to demand our voice is heard then so be it. Enough is enough.
“there is no option under EU law to return to not charging for water.”
We have been paying for water all along. What’s the problem? Oh I get it.Under EU law the money must filter through a quango to keep FF/FG’s buddies in cushy numbers. Pathetic try but wouldn’t expect any more from these parasites.
The people have spoken ..No water charges..if the |EU dont like it ,well stuff them
It’s nothing to do with the E.U, this, as usual is just another pack of lies from this corrupt mess.
Why do we let these clowns push this rubbish at us. We are Irish and we can think for ourselves. We need a proper government who will make decisions not have them made by a bunch of clowns in Brussels . When a decision has to be made about anything in this country we always have to run off to see what happened somewhere else. Surely we can make Irish decisions for Irish people and to hell with what others think We should be the trendsetters for a change.Irish water has to go and that is final. FG and Labour lost the election because of it and if they continue with it they will be kicked out completely in a month time.
Have we not already increased tax to pay for water in the past, so you actually want us to be taxed twice rather than been taxed once and paying through bill pay a second time. Pay once and once only, through tax which we do, done and dusted.
Well then it is obvious that neither Gerry Adams or M Martin or their colleagues – and these are all TDS elected to DAIL EIREANN on promises that the DAIL will deliver hand not read council of minister decision dated 7 12 10 ( official journal of the European union dated 4 2 11 L30/3 4 the TERM OF the loan offer of 22 billion to Ireland with three strands:
1 A Financial Sector Strategy requiring capital injection of 10 billion to bank and 25 billion contingency – bank cre tier capital 10 per cent .
2 An ambitious fiscal consolidation policy all implemented thru referendum of fiscal treaty
3 Programme of structural reform including Article 3 7 c ‘ The finalisation of a final assessment of transfer of responsibility of water services form local authorities to a water utility …starting charging in 2012 -13.
That Council Decision / letter of loan offer never laid before DAL EIREANN for debate and approval or referral back to EU/IMF for further negotiation – the DAIL is not a party to the loan but oversaw without objection to the high court the GVT sign the docs draw down the money so that IMF/EU have tight tight grip on public purse.
The establishment of Ir Watr is a term of the loan and what adam or martin or any other TD right have they to make any comment at all when none of them apply to H Ct to have the decision put before the DAIL .
That is he place for Ir Water to be debated not lections.
What can DAIL OFFER me when it is not a party to the loan:
I am not IMF / or EU the lender.
They as us to elect them to a dail on promise that presuppose DAIL capable of delivering .
It isn’t ?
and- TERMS NEVER LAID BEFOR DAIL EIREANN . I think peoples should start reading the letter of loan offer from IMF .EU never laid before DAIL EIREANN for it debate and referral back to EU/IMF thru govt, but Adam and martin and other all just watched allowed M Noona sing the dcs draw done the money and not can be done on he terms now about capitalisaon bank but remeb anor term BANKS HAVE 1per cent core tier capital .
As a person in the countryside with a water system that has cost us thousands in the last two years(we cant get mains water), I can safely say SF can shove their general taxation for water up their arses!! Why should I pay 10 times more for my water, already be taxed in general taxation and then have to pay more on top so everyone who has to pay a pittance in comparison doesn’t feel hard done by?
Pat…my situation is similar..my own well and sewage..many thousands over the years and in fact i have to fit a new foot valve this evening…but its bigger than you and i….read some of my previous posts on this “leak” that reeks of desperation..
you may own the pump – you don’t own the water !!! Swing and roundabouts thought – your LPT will be lower than urban dwellers.
No one can OWN the water as mother nature never sold it to anyone.
Just like oil and gold
FG,LAB created a monster called Irish water now we are getting a taste of their water ,blackmail in the form of boil water notices to frighten people and legal scare mongering if the citizens do not bow to their demands, pay up or be beat up.
Likely what’s made it permanent is Lynn Boylan of Sinn Fein voting in favour of charging for water consumption in the European Parliament
http://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-water-charges-2-2318959-Sep2015/
Unfortunate.
She signed up for “A pricing policy that respects people’s right to a minimum quantity of water for living and cracks down on waste, providing for the application of a progressive charge that is proportional to the amount of water used.”
Hopefully she can think of a way to convince voters that those words she signed up to mean something totally different.
Give me a tenner off the usc, of which I pay €80 per week and Keep the €4 per week water charge. I can’t understand workers paying massive amounts of usc bellyaching about the few bob going to the water charge.
Kerry..only 80 euros?
It’s a “few bob” now Kerry, but give it a year or 2 it will be privatised and you’ll be paying a thousand euro a year
There are people not paying who aren’t completely adverse to paying for water. But not to a IW setup by Tierney given his record. Read between the lines – the unions didn’t raise an issue with IW. Why is that ? Perhaps their demands were met in private. Remember the IW bonus structure was published – this below is from the Irish Times. A 9% bonus for a senior management who is not performing. RPS Consultants from Poolbeg to Irish Water. 7% of leaks is at the household end – so lets invest a billion in metres, A country up to its backside in debt. It’s not paying for water that is an issue for many – it’s about funding the farce that is IW. Some people may be happy to settle for this ; many may not know nor care. We have had the bill from Anglo for being too big to fail (and we continue to invest twice as much in this as water) – this must be stopped.
This is just unbelievable – negotiated by themselves for themselves.
“The company’s wage structure includes a performance-related payment for staff and those rated “need improvement” are still entitled to a bonus of between 1.5 per cent and 9 per cent of their salary, depending on grade. Senior management whose work “far exceeds expectations” will receive a 19 per cent bonus.”
Lavbeer…thats a very good post….
Excellent post Lavbeer.
And don’t you just know, ‘Senior management whose work “far exceeds expectations” will receive a 19 per cent bonus’, will be all of them.
Thankfully people are awake to the fraud of Irish Water! Firstly to address the divide and conquer that has been put out by the PR brigade for Irish Water! Why do people think that Irish Water require you to register with them whether you use their service or not? When this wasn’t working for them they introduced the €100 bribe to suck people in. In order to register to get this bribe you had to contract with Irish Water, this then making you a customer which you can go onto their website to see exactly what being a customer of theirs entails and this is open for them to change as they see fit. Irish Water have surveyed the countries every water source and the intention is to own and profit from all water sources!
Pay your water bill it’s only fair. The argument must be about how all our tax payers money is being spent surely.
Give one actual logical reason to pay into a corrupt scam. Just one.
they recently in the past 6 weeks, put a meter into an old house over 100 years old,the tenant had no say in matter, and caused two weeks of leaking into basement, foundations of same and eventually fixed it after being forced to investigate ,and denying what was happening. I wonder how much real damage done to that house and numerous others where the meters and work caused breakage and leaking, it was working fine before they interfered what are the stats on that. Leaks caused by installations…by IW which they then fixed
If true, we have merely swapped One Empire for Another, so much for our “Gallant Allies”!
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