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Updated 10.15pm
ANTI-AUSTERITY ALLIANCE TD Paul Murphy has described reports that Irish Water may be able to deduct unpaid charges directly from a person’s wages or social welfare, as a “bullying and intimidation” tactic.
According to The Irish Times tonight, the enhanced compliance measures being considered by Environment Minister Alan Kelly could see the introduction of attachment orders for those who don’t pay.
Similar measures are in place for those who fail to pay the Local Property Tax. However, Irish Water would still have to go to court to get an order to deduct from someone’s wages or welfare payments.
Murphy said no-one other than Revenue had the power to deduct payments at source, and stressed “the process would require going to court at least once”.
Finance Minister Michael Noonan said in answer to a parliamentary question in February that no cases relating to the Household Charge (the pre-cursor of the Local Property Tax) had yet been brought before the courts.
New measures
It’s not yet clear if new measures being prepared by Government will be in place by the time the first water bills are sent out, over the next few months.
Speaking earlier, Minister Kelly said there would be “enforcement” for anyone who refuses to pay.
“The legislation will be there to deal with that”, he told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland.
There will be a distinction between those who can’t or have difficulty in paying, and those who refuse to pay.
Minister Kelly said he would be discussing the issue with his Cabinet colleagues in the coming weeks.
Tens of thousands took to Dublin’s streets at the weekend in the fourth major Right2Water national day of protest.
Nicky Ryan / TwitterSF MEP Lynn Boylan up now: "Enda Kenny, does this look like a dying movement to you?" #waterprotest #Right2Water pic.twitter.com/a1dlU3e7qo
— Nicky Ryan (@NickyRyan_) March 21, 2015
“I appreciate the right of everyone to protest,” Kelly said.
I’ve done enough of it myself.
“Of course there will always be people who have concerns, and I respect those,” he continued.
I’ve always said that certainly mistakes were made in the setting-up of this. I believe that the Government has reacted to that, and the people are coming with us.
Kelly dismissed the criticism of water charges as “double taxation”, noting that many services are funded by the Government and taxpayer.
Speaking to TheJournal.ie this evening, Murphy said tonight’s report showed the Government didn’t have “any carrots left” and was resorting to the ‘sticks’ of “bullying intimidation and fear”.
He said the protest at the weekend had been “very substantial”.
The Anti-Austerity Alliance is moving a Private Members Motion in the Dáil this week, which the party says “will be the government’s last chance to scrap the charges before they are faced with a mass boycott of the bills”.
Additional reporting, Daragh Brophy.
Still not paying!!
My neighbour was like you. Spoke to him this morning and his form is away. Is fed up been lead up the Garden path by snake oil salesman in SF and the loons was why he changed.
Has seen the chaos in Greece and the way Syriza have put their people into severe poverty and does not want a party like them in Ireland.
Baz you told lies yesterday, but today you’re being honest?lol.
Baz is a funny guy #ilikehisstories
Just like those buses you watched Baz?
Just because I am unpopular I am accused of lying.
Tell the New York they are lairs then.
Will never ever pay. And I can well afford it. lost €200 on a bet yesterday. I would rather burn my money than give it to them parasitic leeches. Alan Kelly is a man with no morals. A windbag and a coward that sold the name Labour down the drain.
Baz, never have I met someone so dogmatic on talking as much shite as possible.
Dave. If they bring in legislation where they can take it directly from your pay packet you won’t have a choice.
It’s clear they’re badly spooked by another huge rally on Saturday. I hope Minister Kelly is not bluffing and the government actually tries to tackle this massive grass roots movement of ordinary people against the latest banker tax before the general election.
It will be the final nail in Labour’s coffin and will assist us greatly in building a broad slate of candidates to take on the establishment parties of Austerity in the election.
Baz is it now? How many more names can one man have? Why not just call yourself alias?
Baz sorry I’m not accusing you of being a liar, I’m saying you are a liar.The lies you told Saturday and Sunday were outrageous despite other commentators highlighting your lies you persisted. You have zero credibility.
Baz – Is that your neighbour in Letterkenny or Dundalk , or are you looking out your window watching Russia too ?
Ah tis Sarah Palin and yourself are meeting up ?
Are the Blue $hirts going to be sent out by Alan Kelly to “Collect” the Bills – or else ?
Are you going to make Alan , an honourary Blue $hirt ?
Mick if they do that, the power can only be given to Revenue and under Irish and EU law Revenue cannot collect funds on behalf of a semi state/ private company.
Alan Kelly is the biggest liar in Irish politics, he couldn’t care less about the public, his party campaigned on an anti water ticket and here he is now enforcing the exact opposite. He is not fit to represent this country in government, in fact I would go so far as to say he is an enemy of the state and is only concerned with his own and vested interests. He represents everything that is wrong with Irish politics.
Baz, Alan Kelly has one loyalty and one agenda only.
hence the posturing about new threats of legal sanctions,this morning on Morning Ireland this morning, to harass the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS who are boycotting of Irish Water.
If he and his FG partners cannot extract enough cash from the weakest and lowest paid families in Ireland via regressive water taxation-then, Brendan Howlin’s promise to re instate the minimal wage cuts inflicted on public servants,semi states workers and quango employees will be very difficult to implement. A lot of taxes will have to go to fixing our water infrastructure:
please read this article very carefully.
http://www.villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2014/12/irelands-chimerical-competitiveness/
By Constantin Gurdgiev (November 2014).
“Of the 196 appointments to state boards made by the current Coalition, only 35 resulted from open public competition. Pay increments for civil servants – for length of service not performance – remain in place. Only .75% of civil servants received less than three out of five in the October performance reviews which ground entitlements to the automatic pay increments. Meanwhile the country is on the march over Irish water and its bonus-for-nothing culture. The Regulator has set it a target of only 8% in cost reductions over the next few years. The percentage is paltry because it is obliged to maintain double the necessary workforce inherited from local authority staffs until 2025 – following a deal with the unions. John FitzGerald of the ESRI has said the extra wages and other costs for the 2000 extra staff amount to around €150m a year, or an extraordinary €90 per household. In recent weeks, the Government promised to deliver comprehensive reforms of the public sector. As before, there are vague targets for transforming the sector underpinning much less vague giveaways to insiders. In exchange for reversing pay cuts imposed in the two previous agreements with the unions, the State is promising some easing in the absurdly ineffective procedures for removing incompetent employees. The former is a tangible, enforceable and easily monitored commitment: either new pay flows or it does not. The latter is completely non-transparent and unenforceable. No-one, beyond senior civil servants, will ever have any real proof as to whether or not the new regime is working. No-one in the public service has any incentive to make sure it does. As pay, promotion and performance awards remain detached from actual productivity, no fine-tuning can ever deliver measurable gains in performance.
https://youtu.be/9sAowRrD4hg
Baz is a lady though… Who would have thunk?
There is something bizarre about the electorate of a county (Tipperary) that rewards strokers and tax cheats(such as Michael Lowry), with an even larger vote, after they are publicly exposed.!
we are going to have a first rate water supply when all the fines and interest are collected :)
Dam u Steve G. Dam u
…just to add also, because of the deep hatred I have for these imposters that have hijacked the labour party I will never pay a penny to this iw company for as long as I live, Kelly can bring in any legislation and threaten all he wants because its going into my will that anyone who inherits me stuff after I kick the bucket will forfeit the lot if they pay the water charges on my property, that’s how determined I am not to pay these crooks. F*ck off Kelly you’re getting no money off me.
Baz youre a spoofee
Even more determined not to pay twice now.
Patjoe fines can only be imposed by the courts after a rather lengthy process.Will take a while for that sneer you have to materialise considering the tens of thousands that will have to be taken to court.
Greece are in poverty because of people with your mindset baz. This govt don’t rule by consent they are nothing but bullies whose thinking is dictated by big business and unelected bureaucrats.go back to your masters you idiot.
Can Alan Kelly or Baz answer this question.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO_znyCZgoc
but all fines are levelled against the property so it can’t be soled or passed in a will until cleared. That makes me very happy indeed :)
Full of dung again Baz! Take your FG lies elsewhere like a good boy
Syria has not put the people of Greece into poverty
Patjoe non payment of a utility does not attach to the home.Can you highlight any residential sales that could not proceed because of an unpaid electricity bill? Take your time.; )
Baz my neighbour is a bit like you.
So when he was away on holidays I taped in to his water main.
You’re “reading” too many fairytales ,Pattyjoejoe :) ‘soled’ I am laughing out loud :)
Thanks Pat I knew one of you would bite, between LPT and and legacy issues concerning your property over non payment of water charges, this “government” are holding its citizens to ransom and using their homes that they worked hard for as leverage to squeeze as much money as possible from people, its outright extortion.
Syriza did not put Greece in poverty the IMF and the last Government did Syriza are trying to do right by the Greek People so wrong yet again Baz no please go spout your Government propaganda somewhere else!
And I’m not paying either! Sounds like the government are regretting trying to placate the electorate with their sweetners and promise of no charges being brought about for non payment. Like everything else about Irish Water it was a huge mistake. Now Kelly is trying to get tough….well sorry…..so are the electorate!
More like bad is a self pleasurer
I can’t wait to read the comments on here when Fine Gael are returned to power after the next election! I’ll need a weeks worth of popcorn!!
Eh…..less of the windbag please….
Well I’ve gone the other way..
I sent off my registration pack but have decided not to pay a cent to this new quango.
The people are having a water tax rammed down their necks so Dennis O’Brian and a load of hangers on can get rich!!!!
I’m sick of these Blueshirt dictators……
Alan Kelly is a card carrying member of siptu…… not an ounce of trade unionism in his body though…….
We will be ready to deal with you, soon enought.
Yeah Mick. “resistance is futile “, we’ve heard all about it.
Kelly pulls on his Gestapo Boots ready to give the poor and vulnerable a good kicking.
Just like his comrade Buffoon Hogan.
You know where you can shove those boots Kelly?
Dave if you submit the betting slip to Enda’s office they should reimburse you for the loss. They have been paying out on gambling losses for years. It was part of Enda’s win/win guarantee that got him elected
Where did you get those Reich Boots Kelly?
Did Denis borrow them for you from Kissenger at a Bilderberg meeting?
Greek poverty was created and worsened by a right wing party in greece. Syriza just passed legislation defying the eu which gives homeless a home and poor people electricity. Explain where you got your waffle because you’ve beeb misled or your misleading us
I’ll join you with the popcorn ,”Pepper ” :) I am loading it up in my humble abode :) Fine Gael will get back into power but ,it will be a bloodbath :) -40 seats or more :) #greatnews
iJoan Burton says she accepts that many people still object to charges for water on a point of principle, but she is standing by the Government’s plans and says people will accept them in time…. So there you go people its not about deadlines anymore, iJoan say’s you will eventually accept the need for water charges!
I already pay for water I just don’t feel like paying for it again and again!
Sean McD
True Sean, but what goes on with Mayo ?, the Flynn’s, now their pupil in corruption, Enda. Did anyone get a look at this contract that Enid said he signed when entering government ?
what if someone had claimed squatters rights on a property
That will be the point the country erupts into massive violence
Norman Hunter, very serious question because the entire “we won’t pay” strategy could fall on this. If the Government with it’s massive majority subsumed IW back into public ownership could it then be fattened up for privatisation using this mechanism they could then legally get revenue in, I have been trying to suggest this for a long time now, am I banging my head against a brick wall?
Still not paying, I’m sure their law friends are smacking lips in the sidelines for the court time ahead. Theres going to be a lots of it. They will cost them more than what comes in from the bills = a dying IW.
Do you not live in Belfast anymore BAZ where you said you’re property tax was £3000 a year
Idiot
Baz, call Edna, he has new instructions for you …
Earth to patjoejoe123…come in patjoe….ran off with your tail between your legs when your lie about an attachment order against a family home was exposed. Gone back to FG head office to see what line of spin you can use to respond to that???
Can’t pay won’t pay. Kelly get stuffed sick to the teeth of your threats.
every cent will be collected or levelled against the property, thats makes me very happy indeed :)
Payjoejoe stop repeating yourself your nothing but a troll
Patjoejoe
Deluded fool
The more they throw out these bully boy tactics the more I’m determined not to pay. When you actually look into how this quango was setup, the people running it, the amount of money they have wasted and are still wasting, the lack of transparency, the list goes on and on you soon see that it’s all rotten to the core. It’s not a case of “can’t pay, won’t pay” anymore, it’s gone well past that point.
Mick J
So, you support subversion of democracy and demanding money with menaces, both criminal offences.
Kelly has no mandate. If he wants any chance at next election he needs to cut his losses and run now. If he has no designs on re election he has no mandate to saddle the people with this. Labour members need to take control now or be resigned to the political wilderness for another 20 yrs.
Well said Phil
Ah lads leave Baz alone sure he hasn’t much time left on this planet and then he’ll have to go back to whatever planet he comes from.(Hope it’s not Heaven as he wont be let in for telling lies )
the terror kelly who dose he think he is.he had better make up his mind.this irish water was rammed trough without any debate.look at the bill for drink on the night this irish water was passed..that alone will stand up in court as flawed.
“Just because I am unpopular I am accused of lying.”
It’s the other way around.
Will people PLEASE stop replying to this patjoejoe troll..
Yea provide free electric and homes to people with what they are stone broke they should have stuck with the program like we did and dig there way out no easy way out you have to pay your way
Baz is a man who we can completely trust.
So baz your neighbour has been to Greece recently?
Syriza have been in government for a few weeks, it was the previous government who destroyed greece to save german bankers and bondholders like our Michael Noonan
Baz, you really are an uneducated fool.
Lairs? You not speak english too good?
Uneducated fool.
I will just stop paying my tv licence, car tax etc. They can rob Peter to pay Paul but they ain’t stealing from me.
Why would that make you happy? Are you some kind of @$$hole or just a troll?
Fair play to you Phil! I will go to prison on principle on this one and I am a scaredy cat but I am adamant I’m not paying!
Ahh go kiss Kennys …s
Your neighbour is idiot who believes in austerity cronyism and eu austerity way while ones who will not pay are people have the balls to stand up to all that is bad about eu and Ireland
“The Minister said he had “no problems” with the lack of minutes from a number of meetings between Kelly’s predecessor Phil Hogan and officials in Bord Gáis Eireann.”
So much for transparency.
Kelly has a hard neck threatening anyone while casually dismissing secret backroom meetings.
So Alan kelly has no problem with any possible corruption, nepotism, back room deals or secret nods.
Alan Kelly is the WORST of Labour personified!
The Labour party are a joke at this stage ,they might as well join up with Fine Gael have they no empathy with the poor people of Ireland.
Absolute sell outs of Labour’s founding fathers.
It makes me wonder why Kelly is willing to sacrifice his political career for Irish Water.
Be real and honest Muppet Kelly, these charges are their to take honest earnings and give them to rich bankers in Germany. You should be humiliated, tared and feathered & shot, for treason again our beautiful nation.
this scam gets weirder and weirder by the day. the gov have lost any credibility they thought they had, bullying is the cowards way
Kelly: ‘There will be a distinction between those who can’t or have difficulty in paying, and those who refuse to pay.’
Translate: measures will be taken against those who disagree with an immoral tax
My passion to see Labour destroyed in the next election is growing by the hour, erased from any political involvement in the running of this Country,with FG hot on there heels.
Korrupt treasonous fine gael filth.
Ie…’labour’
What black mail dirt do ob’s papers have on this suicidal clown kelly i wonder.
If they bring in that legislation I fear peaceful protest will be off the menu, it would be a case of all the peaceful protests not getting the desired result, a few full on riots might ensue to bring these bullies to their senses.
Guys guys guys, this is Alan Kellys version of phil hogans ‘turn your water down to a trickle’ moment.
Are Irish Water going to bring a million individual cases to court? The system would grind to a halt. Anyway, how many of those cases will be heard prior to the next election?
So, for those who can’t pay, this threat is irrelevant. For those who can, put the money to one side as theres no fines until after the next election, and when Irish Water is dead and gone, use the cash to treat yourself and yours.
Pleasant dreams folks, nothing has changed. We are still winning.
People of ireland we no democracy any more dangerous times a head if these People get into power again europe is a very bad egg lets get out while we can._.https://youtu.be/27UL3tZW1bk
Timed threat!
To make sure you sign up.
This won’t happen.
Are they going to take over a million people to court?
Who haven’t even signed up?
No contract no court!
It’s that simple.
I would not give them the steam from my piss after drinking the rachet stuff they (aka Irish Water) produce!
I had the best nights sleep last night after Phil Kelly’s threat!
Thank you !
@ Niall Cos he knows he is finished in Labour and a big fat salary is waiting for him in IW well thats what he thinks.we will have the last laugh, now that we are standing up ti these bullies.
*corrupt
It is ironic that a Labour minister who personally canvassed for election opposing water charges now seeks to attack the citizens for not paying water charges.FG really shafted the Labour clowns on this one.
Is Alan Kelly saying that the €300m the state gives to CIE, does not go to CIE but is diverted to pay off a dodgy deal with the ECB, and that is why we need to pay high fares? I didn’t think so, this is double/triple taxation. Show me where the motor tax, insurance and central revenue appears on Irish water’s balance sheet, and you have a case; but Alan – you don’t.
You’re bang on Alien8, we all know where the portion of our tax that, up to now was for the provision water has been siphoned off to.
Thats why they’re all hated, they lied all the way and went back on their word, the taxing of private homes that people paid for, stamp duty as well, that said tax not to mention household charge has not shown any use around the country. in fact theres less done. its all gone to pay debt and this is another way to pay debt.
Labour are disgusting how any one could go on with such Terriny and say they are the legacy for the working mans party! Jim Larkin would be turning in his grave shame shame on me them
Best of luck with that Kelly. Your bully boy tactics only serve to poke the bear.
Ah this government…. Only has balls when it comes to bullying it’s citizens. Any other parties and it will roll over and have it’s tummy tickled like a dog.
Well said John. Here’s a good article from Gene Kerrigan from yesterday’s Independent which describes our Fg/Labour government standing in unshakeable solidarity with the global capitalist elite against the Irish citizens.
“Last September, at the General Assembly of the United Nations, Bolivia proposed Draft Resolution A/68/L.57/Rev.1. The idea is to create “a multilateral legal framework for sovereign debt restructuring processes.”
In short – instead of governments being played off against one another, they will employ a collective legal strategy to fight the vulture funds.
Bolivia’s resolution is a responsible move to protect sovereign governments from the predatory attention of low-life grave dancers. The resolution passed by 124 votes to 11.
Ireland voted against.”
Its understandable Bolivia wanted this sort of deal as they owed so much to foreign investors.
You make it sound like Bolivia was taken in by greedy international vultures, the truth is they had a deficit for many years and needed to borrow to keep the country going.
You cant have it both ways, borrowing money and not repaying it.
@Stephen……..Funny how Banks can have it both way though , they can borrow money and NEVER repay it. or worse they get other people to repay their debts with the help of a puppet government.
Stephen,
Bolivia’s Debt to GDP ratio is a miniscule 33% compared with for example Japan at 240% or Ireland at 124%.
You should also understand that a budget deficit is of no concern to a nation with control of its own currency. So for example, the U.K can sustain ANY size of debt or deficit which is denominated in sterling. The ‘debt’ and any interest due is paid via keystrokes at the Bank of England. That is why the enormous £850 billion bank bailout in the U.K. did not bankrupt the nation as it did in Ireland’s case who are users of what is effectively a foreign currency, the Euro.
Hugo Chavez turned his country into a shit hole with the same communist bull that you spout every day it’s not going to happen here no matter how many cut and paste from the communist manifesto
What exactly can they do to the thousands of people who refuse to pay?
Threaten, bully and frighten seems to be the tactics they’re going to employ.
They can’t bring in the revenue like they threatened to in the past.
Jason if they can pass legislation they could. Yes that legislation can be challenged in the court. But you can be sure that they will look at every avenue of attack before drafting.
Mick if they bring in Revenue then IW cannot operate as a semi state company.It is illegal for Revenue to collect money on behalf of a semi state/ private company.
Hence the Change in legislation. Currently they can’t under Irish law. And the EU don’t have a say in individual states taxation affairs. Being the majority shareholder in IW, the government can pass legislation in such a way that they can recoup any debt owed to them as the majority shareholder via revenue. Be sure that they have people in the Dept of Finance and Revenue and in the AG’s Office looking at this for a while. IW is here and is here to stay. We may not like it but like every other revenue generating scheme once in very rarely gotten rid of.
Prime example is the USC. Was supposed to be a “Temporary” measure, now they are saying that it is here to stay because it collects about 6 Billion a year for the treasury.
The chair of the Revenue disagrees with your assessment.
Mick I think you better have a rethink about EU law and it’s implications here.
Just further to your comment you are correct about taxation, however the water charge is not a tax.If Revenue collects it then it is a tax and the cost of IW comes back fully on the States balance sheet.
every cent will be collected. to hell with the freeloaders :)
@ mick : Revenue cannot get involved as it is not a tax. Please stop peddling the untruth that they can.
Patjoe terrible attempt at trolling try harder.; )
Norman. All I am saying is you can be sure that you will pay the charge one way or another. The Government are not going to let it go. And the chair of Revenue is speaking under current legislation. They can bring in legislation for almost anything once it doesn’t violate the constitution. And water charges are not a constitutional issue.
Mick they cannot bring in legislation to allow Revenue collect for a Semi state/ private company that’s what’s unconstitutional. They can impose a water tax but that defeats the proposed of setting up IW.
Mick, are you SERIOUSLY contesting that Revenue will be used to collect an outstanding utility bill for a private company?
Werejamming. I am saying that they are going to get the money for Water Charges by hook or by crook. You can bet you life on that. Do you think they haven’t been considering this for the past year or so? The very fact that they are bringing forward legislation for the collection of the charge means that they have found a loophole in revenue collection that won’t tie up the courts in individual legal battles. When all is said and done and the dust has settled they will get getting the money. Easy or Hard but they are going to take it. And you you can also bet that if their is a change of Government the next one will look at the figures from Finance and go “hmm I think we better keep this” as every previous Government has done with money generating schemes.
MJ
Its no loophole, its extortion.
Mick, don’t get sidestepped by the revenue issue – it’s a red herring, although you and I both know that when they want what they want, they do what they have to do.
And they have already brought in the legislation to stop the practice of sending people to prison for non payment of fines:
“The aim of the legislation is to seek to effectively eliminate, in so far as is possible, the need for judges to commit anyone to prison for the non-payment of a fine,” she said.
“As well as introducing an option for persons to pay fines by instalment, there are also changes in the way those who fail to pay fines are dealt with, with a range of options available to judges including recovery orders, attachment of earnings, community service and ultimately imprisonment.”
She said the Court Service was working on the implementation.
This included the outsourcing of all aspects of fines’ recovery to an external provider.
“It is expected that all the preparations for the new system will be completed by the third quarter of 2015,” the minister said.”
My feeling is that IW will implement a series of fines for non payment and then a number of options wlll be made available for the non payer to comply with, then an attachment order on SW or income will be placed and the payment taken. As soon as they iron out the complexities of outsourcing the payment of fines, then this will happen, I am sorry to say that anyone who thinks that a march by 80,000 will dismantle IW is fooling themselves.
Those who have already registered have done so without any threats, many registered when the charges were much higher then they are now. If they willingly registered then why wouldn’t they willingly pay, considering that many will actually be paid to sign up with the 100 euro rebate.
Exactly Pat. People saying they are not going to pay sounds like those that said they weren’t going to pay Bin Charges but now are generally accepted and likewise the Household charge.
Yes people are angry and will protest and shout but eventually you will pay and in a few years it will be thought no more of than paying your Electricity bill.
MJ, as it turned out, the fears of the anti bin charge protesters was well founded and they were right in their predictions.
Those not willing to pay are a minority, some think that yesterday’s march scared Alan Kelly lol – not a chance, it actually boosted him, he’s not scared of the electorate, I would say he knows he is gone in the next election.
What he and Labour are doing is setting the next Government up for fail, just like FF set this Government up because they were the ones who committed to bringing in water charges.
Those promising to abolish IW, LPT, USC and spend, soend spend, are to be viewed in the same manner as Labour and FG before the 2011 election – if they could have fulfilled their election promises then they would have – the bottom line is that they couldn’t and neither will any government based on those promises.
Patlyndo, “a minority” how many were at the counter pro water charge protest. The labour party are in the minority, less than 5% support on the ground, Kelly shouldn’t be in a position to propose any legislation with such minuscule support.
And over a decade later bin charges are accepted as a utility. So Mick is absolutely spot on, the resemblence to the campaign in 2003 and today’s anti water campaign is startling – the same groups yet only the names have changed………
Mr Phil. But people accept and pay those bin charges no differently than they pay their other utility bills now. Water will be the exact same. People protested and blocked roads etc. Did it make a blind bit of difference in the end?
“Patlyndo, “a minority” how many were at the counter pro water charge protest.”
A million give or take a few – that’s how many willingly signed up to IW without any penalty or threats.
“The labour party are in the minority, less than 5% support on the ground, Kelly shouldn’t be in a position to propose any legislation with such minuscule support.”
He can propose what he wants – if his coalition partners agree and it’s passed then it’s not a minority proposal anymore, as I have already said though, Labour are finished.
There in lies your problem lads, privatisation of water is the end goal.Thats what makes water different from bins.Ye all take care now and have a great day.; )
Its a ‘double tax’ when it comes to paying but it is a ‘utility charge’ when it comes to collection, a liberal picking and choosing of phrasing to suit the argument
And what were those predictions Norman?
Patlyndo a decade later and we have private profiteers collecting bins and charging what they want. The same will happen with water charges, when everyone is paying 2 or 3 grand a year for charges and those who registered their private wells are taxed those who were pro IW can look back in shame at the missed oppurtunity to stop this on its tracks
Patjoe123
Yes Pat, get rid of those freeloaders and spongers in the government, cut the welfare schemes to them and their Corporate masters.
DH – care to provide a link to any private bin company that charges 2 or 3 grand a year?
Not the bin charges but the water charges will be if IW is to be self funding . And when it is privatised they will be more interested in profit than infrastructure so we know what road this is heading for
So if it was enshrined in the constitution that IW would not be privatised – would you pay then? Genuine query?
Patlyndo this is exactly what I have been trying to tell people, The Socialist Party and their cover group the AAA are attempting to use this logic to con people again, it did not work in the bin tax disputes, it did not work in the property tax disputes and it will not work here again, Having a single strand strategy will never work this has to be done on a multi strand level or we will be sunk.
i’d really hate to think what will happen if they try using Revenue, they might need to rethink that one about stealing more money. Such theft is a crime and corrupt which would possibly cause a reaction bordering on crime. If thats what they want, they cannot sit back and condemn the protesting against crime itself though they are pure hypocrites and proven over and under. Lisbon treaty was bullied in, have you seen the benefits yet? lol. They didn’t tell you the truth. They’ve made it harder for future policy making now. They’ve turned people against the Garda, themselves, everyone has enough of this joke of government. They don’t care about your rushed in dodgy legalisation, thousands are going to break this one.
Frankie, no doubt people are really annoyed (more than) with the imposition of another charge/tax whatever you want to call it – but groups advocating non payment and putting themselves forward as a credible alternative on one issue and promising refunds, SW increases, reversal of cuts – are doing vulnerable people a huge disservice, in my opinion.
I recall the first day FG/Labour were in power and Burton and Noonan were photographed leaving the department of finance – their faces said it all and that was the realisation that they could not live up to their pre election promises.
If Iw as it is now is dismantled because it is a top heavy out of control money pit, with all the 100k plus management positions which is and will be a huge drain on the monies paid by the taxpayer, that added to the pensions and bonus schemes and its just a complete p!ss take of the taxpayer. Then if all that was rectified, and the money they want to prop IW up with for the next few yrs is invested in the infrastructure first , and then have the ownership issue enshrined in the constitution to keep it from ever being privatised, i think i and many like me would be open to single entity in control of the water system. But as it is now IW is just a complete joke and a prime example of the contempt the govt has for the taxpayer . The billions that are being wasted between the start up, the consultancy farce, and the meter installation would gone a long way in updating and improving the water system
There is no argument from me in regards to the entire set up of IW, a monumental cock up of epic proportions.
I doubt they will row back though and it’s for the very reasons that you cite above – the money they have already spent on it.
I also think that any politicians and parties elected on this one issue will have quite a job on their hands dismantling IW and finding a revenue stream to replace it.
every cent will be collected, that makes me very happy indeed :)
Yes i can see your point that they will hang onto it as long as they can but the very fact that IW is itself just another money spinner for fg cronies may be what keeps the outrage going long enough to stop anymore money thrown into it. People are seriously p!ssed off with the fact that we are being taken for a ride once again, that there is absolutely no respect by this govt for the fact that people are stretched to the limit with bills whilst no improvement on earnings. Every year they dream up more and more ways to spend our money.
Patlyndo:- “A million give or take a few – that’s how many willingly signed up to IW without any penalty or threats.”
Jeez…you’ve got a short memory.
@DH, as I predicted earlier Kelly has outlived the penalties if people refuse to pay, still though, you have the naive asking ‘will they take a million to court’ and ‘it’ll clog up the system’. Eh, that won’t happen, what will more than likely happen is once the first few are hauled before the court and their wages garnished plus their court costs (if you can pay you will), then Others will see the light. Not pretty folks but the money has to be collected, serious repercussions if it’s not.
More votes lost for Labour so….
Heard the clown on morning ireland..amazing the way they try to spin it about jobs etc..all bluster..no convincing arguement..we have always paid for water..what govt does with the same money is govts decision..and to think i voted for these clowns in the last election..wont happen again..
Mr Kelly, let’s get this straight I’m not paying again for MY water.
It’s not your water.
His taxes contribute to the provision of water though.
Ok the irish people’s water then.
It flows into his house….
Obviously indirect taxation is not enough. Consumption based payments are the best way forward.
It is enough, not the taxpayers fault it’s mismanaged.
“Obviously indirect taxation is not enough.”
Obviously you don’t know what you’re talking about. The two levies brought n 1.6 billion last year, the cost of supplying water was 1.2 billion.
@jammin, yes that’s the cost of supplying the current level of water infrastructure, do you believe the current water service is adequate?
Were Jammin can you explain how 2% VAT and 5% Motor Tax brought in 1.6 billion?
Dziadek the water belongs to the people of Ireland. It’s in our constitution. FACT.
I haven’t had a problem with the water coming out of my taps for donkeys years, yes there are problem areas, but it didn’t require an enormous blood sucking leech like IW to sort it out.
Hypothetically just say Fianna Fail were still in power in coalition with Labour and it was they who were introducing this Quango and not Europe’s number one butt kissers Fine Gael, would all these FG lackeys have been out protesting against FIanna Fail’s water charges?.
My views. Where are you getting the 2 and 5% figures from. There was a PAC meeting in December discussing this and it turns out 66% of motor tax and all LPT goes into the IW pot as well as other funds from central taxation.
My views,
Not just vat and motor tax but LPT and the pension pot as well.
It’s not Alan Kelly’s, and it’s not the government’s water either. It belongs to the Irish State, the people. Therefore it is ours. It is not to be sold off to private concerns so they may profit by selling it back to us, or anyone else.
My Views – You missed the 5% of VRT ?
Our Minister for Agriculture, actually acknowledged , that the average Tax gathered through this system , per annum, has been €1.4 Billion every year , on average .
So your point is ?
Phil, from a fund in excess of 20 billion, it is now virtually spent. Old people are now being pressured to do their patriotic duty and die. Meanwhile, Mr Michael noonan, the investor in gold and various foreign government bonds, is entitled to five ministerial pensions, and the rest, payable from the top slice of what ever revenue is collected in this country. Lads. Something has to change. I still await the Republic promised to my grandparents.
Dziadek
So, whose water is it then ?
@ Stephen Brady, Mr Phil officer, An Ciarraioch
Vat, vrt, motor, lpt, paye, whatever
We all know funding for water comes out of general taxation. But if you’re going to argue that we pay for water twice then point me to where it is stipulated that X percentage of those tax measures is to be assigned to water services?
Why do you disagree with a charge based on consumption?
1991 local government (finance bill). I’m against a consumption based charge as I believe water will then be privatised. That’s what the end game is otherwise they would give it constitutional protection instead of this plebiscite BS.
Local government act 1991? I can’t see anything there about water? Which section or is it something else you’re referring to?
Try 1997
You obviously didn’t read it in that amount of time. The hint is in the name. Local government get money to take care of their business including water.
Where in the constitution? Just asking?
AN ACT TO ENABLE LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO ENJOY THE REVENUES FROM DUTIES CHARGED UNDER THE FINANCE (EXCISE DUTIES) (VEHICLES) ACT, 1952 , AND FROM DUTIES AND FEES CHARGED UNDER CERTAIN OTHER ENACTMENTS, TO REMOVE THE POWER OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO MAKE CHARGES FOR THE SUPPLY OF WATER FOR DOMESTIC PURPOSES OR FOR THE DISPOSAL OF DOMESTIC SEWAGE, TO ENABLE STEPS TO BE TAKEN FOR THE PURPOSE OF SECURING THE PROVISION BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES OF SERVICES IN A MORE ECONOMICAL AND EFFICIENT MANNER, TO OTHERWISE MAKE PROVISION IN RELATION TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IN PARTICULAR FOR THE PURPOSE OF ENSURING THAT THE REVENUES FROM DUTIES AND FEES AFORESAID ARE APPORTIONED AMONG LOCAL AUTHORITIES ON AN EQUITABLE AND FAIR BASIS) AND TO PROVIDE FOR RELATED MATTERS. [20th May, 1997]
Not my caps just copy and pasted that way.
No offence William, but where does this state that “water” is “ours”?
William that’s replaced by:
WATER SERVICES (NO. 2) ACT 2013
An Act to make provision for, and in relation to, the imposition of charges by Irish
Water in respect of the provision by Irish Water of water services; to provide for the
transfer, in part, of the functions of water services authorities under the Water Services
Act 2007 to Irish Water; to repeal the Local Government (Delimitation of Water Supply
Disconnection Powers) Act 1995, certain provisions of the Water Services Act 2013 and,
for certain purposes, certain provisions of the Water Services Act 2007; to amend the
Water Services Act 2007 and certain other enactments; and to provide for matters
connected therewith. [25th December, 2013]
My Views has the new act decreased motor tax?.
Thanks William
That is the Irish constitution article 10 I think. We own all the water on and around Ireland.
William, where in the act that you referenced did it increase motor tax?
Aren’t motor tax levels decided in the budgets?
Stephen
Constitution
Article 10
4 Provision may also be made by law for the management of land, mines, minerals and waters acquired by the State after the coming into operation of this Constitution and for the control of the alienation, whether temporary or permanent, of the land, mines, minerals and waters so acquired.
Fair enough My Views but if you’ve another source of revenue for water then common sense would suggest motor tax revenue should be slashed?.
But it won’t because the chances of IW still been in existence this time next year is extremely slim, in fact I’ll go as far to say its doomed to fail.
proud to pay :)
William motor tax slashed from what level? It changes regularly in the budgets but what’s your benchmark level to slash it from and based on what?
@pat you troll you’re like our government a broken record
Easy for him to say; he’ll be out of office by then.
Oooh the big bad wolf is huffing and puffing. Still not paying
Gosh he’s so manly and brave to face down those terrible dissenting grannies and working class people daring to stand up to double water payments , thankfully he’s got the riot squad on standby behind the wall of steel surrounding Leinster house just in case one of them might get in front of the gates of our parliament and demonstrate.
Je Suis Alan jelly .
You can stick your legislation up your ar*e Alan……along side your water meter.
Kelly is vermin.
Not paying.
Nobody is paying ……apart from the vested interests !! Irish Water is crumbling and time is not on their side nor is it on the side of our bank government. Eurostat in June !! Election next April at the latest , still the population are against Irish Water. with one week to the first bill and there is 80,000 on the streets according to the independent and the Mirror. Why are the FG backbenchers allowing the likes of Kelly and Kenny destroy their careers for the sake of a money losing quango.
80,000 on the streets and approx 1 million registered………….. If this was anything other than IW then this would be considered a resounding success and not a failure.
Nobody paid yet as they haven’t received a bill.
True enough regarding the back benchers – but isn’t this the problem with this country – TD’s and back benchers only interested in keeping their jobs – how is this in the best interests of the country?
This is the politics that destroyed this country – the “buy a vote” crap that is again being spun by the latest crowd – as long as “we” fall for it – then we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past….
How does creating a money losing quango benefit the country? How many people that IW say are registered have been out marching. Just like hundreds of thousands of people who are also against IW I have only been able to go to 2 official marches and a few smaller unofficial ones because of commitments….so its safe to assume a huge amount of people on those marches have been signed up against their will. Look at the way the bank government are forcing Landlords to provide information on their tenants. They shoved back the deadline in order to find new ways of forcing people to sign up or sign them up without their knowledge in order to pass Eurostat. Irish water fails in mid June when the bills go unpaid Eurostat fails them next IW collapses and Enda goes. Its the domino effect that Enda and Kelly brought on themselves.
Martin, 1 million people approximately – have registered, they registered without being forced to, they registered with no penalty for not registering.
Why would hundreds of thousands of people register and then protest?
Nobody has been forced to do anything against their will – sorry but I am not buying that.
They pushed back the deadline, made it financially attractive for people to sign up and they did sign up.
Will IW fail? Maybe, maybe not – what won’t change though is that there is a desperate need ot upgrade the infrastructure which has been neglected for decades – where wil that money come from and before you say – ” we already pay” – that’s to remain as is – no money for upgrade and that is going to be a huge problem in the next few years.
@Pat Why do you ask questions you clearly know the answer to?
Why would hundreds of thousands of people register and then protest? = Fear of potential prosecution in the early days now alleviated by the implosion of IW and the mass non payment protest. I talk with people all the time on such FG pages as “Fight the water tax lawfully” (27,000 members) and they admit to have been scared into signing up, My own mother signed up but now refuses to pay she has never been on a march her neighbours on both sides all in there 80′s have never been on a March none of them will pay.
“Nobody has been forced to do anything against their will – sorry but I am not buying that.” An Post TOLD to give information to IW. Landlords forced to give their tenants information to IW. Seriously your arguments are very weak….I would be interested to know what benefit you see in the setting up of a Water company that in reality is only a billing service that employs no direct water maintenance workers. It will lose money in the hundreds of millions until 2019 and the charge sky rockets.
” Will IW fail? Maybe, maybe not – what won’t change though is that there is a desperate need ot upgrade the infrastructure which has been neglected for decades – where wil that money come from and before you say – ” we already pay” – that’s to remain as is – no money for upgrade and that is going to be a huge problem in the next few years. ”
Again not an argument for IW, Why spend billions on a billing service company instead of hiring pipe maintenance workers and get them to work fast ….particularly in the west!!
Pat I suspect you are a vested interest defending your income its the only way I can understand your position.
“@Pat Why do you ask questions you clearly know the answer to?”
Eh, sorry do you have the monopoly on asking questions?
>>> Here’s a couple<<<<
(How does creating a money losing quango benefit the country?
How many people that IW say are registered have been out marching.)
"Fear of potential prosecution in the early days now alleviated by the implosion of IW and the mass non payment protest."
But the risk of penalties were removed a long time ago were they not as to the non payment matter – well you don't know that for sure do you as no bills have been issued.
"An Post TOLD to give information to IW. Landlords forced to give their tenants information to IW. "
But these were spoken of AFTER almost one million people registered – and you sayy my arguments are weak?
"I would be interested to know what benefit you see in the setting up of a Water company that in reality is only a billing service that employs no direct water maintenance workers. It will lose money in the hundreds of millions until 2019 and the charge sky rockets."
Where did this come from? Seriously? if you have what is perceived as a "dissenting voice" for pointing out the obvious then you are a FG troll, a VI in IW – or other such accusations.
"Pat I suspect you are a vested interest defending your income its the only way I can understand your position."
And here it is again and I am not sure what "position" you are referring to as if you read my post again (here it is):
"Will IW fail? Maybe, maybe not – what won’t change though is that there is a desperate need ot upgrade the infrastructure which has been neglected for decades – where wil that money come from and before you say – ” we already pay” – that’s to remain as is – no money for upgrade and that is going to be a huge problem in the next few years."
This is the one question that the parties who are against water charges (of any description by the way and not just IW) refuse to answer.
@Pat……I wonder what is blurring your vision on this topic…..but let me help get a better picture:
” But the risk of penalties were removed a long time ago were they not as to the non payment matter – well you don’t know that for sure do you as no bills have been issued. ”
Did you not read the headline on the top of this page? jeeez !
” I am not sure what “position” you are referring to ”
Your pro IW position, if you think you are impartial or objective I suggest you read your own posts on this page and that should clear up your position for you !!
” This is the one question that the parties who are against water charges (of any description by the way and not just IW) refuse to answer. ”
I have a feeling you have heard them answer it hundreds of times but chosen ignore the logical answers provided by them…..Spend the indirect taxes provided by the people on fixing the infrastructure. Don’t you think 1.2 Billion spent on fixing the infrastructure every year (replacing the pipes upgrading the purifying capabilities) would sort out the issue quicker than spending that and more on a billing company no to mention how it would improve the unemployment . What you are not saying is that the I.2 Billion the taxpayers pay toward the water is going to the EC BANK. So the government get the people to pay again for water.
To Patnoall,I signed up and have no intention of paying a penny so there is your answer.
Martin, pointing out the obvious doesn’t make me pro water charges, I’m actually against them in their current form, however, the people who claim to represent me are fools and have done more damage than good. They have insured that IW and Kelly have won. When you realise it, it’ll be too late.
Lol. And I give you wilfried as my prime example. I refuse to pay, but here are my details anyway….
My freaking head hurts…..
Landlords will be left to carry the can for all tenants who do not pay that might piss off some of the Fine Gael capitalist right wingers. Imagine paying the water bill for all your free loading tenants. Definitely wouldn’t be voting FG if I were you
An article today in the Endo said the most FG td’s are landlords!!
Don’t think landlords will end up at a loss. They can always put up the rent by 15€ – that should cover it.
Martin, I counted a total of 13 TDs who are landlords from the report. 18 TDs in total who had 2nd homes, whether for rent or holiday. That’s probably fairly representative of the population.
Just more Bully Boy tack ticks ,
We’ll be ready to deal with you and your cronies at the Ballad Box,
Your time is running out ,
We Won’t Pay , and won’t be Bullied,
I’ve been paying since my first payday in 1986
He won’t be around after the next election!! Smoke and puff!!
Wonder what legislation will protect u once your out on your ear come next election ya turn coat
Kelly your a lowlife pompous Pratt
I’m actually at the end of my tether with this.. Can the government not realize that morally most people do not have a problem paying for water.. We already pay for it and the argument for paying for is sound and logical.. Water is key to life and most people would have no problem with that.. Our problem is paying for it threefold.. We’re already over burdened and over taxed and this is the straw that broke the camels back.. We’ve had enough.. We’ve paid enough.. I’m by no means on the bread line like many but I still have to live wage to wage worrying about health insurance, taxes, loans, rent, car, pension, bins, heating, energy, TV licence, broadband, phone, food.. And after that the government still takes 23% of everything I spend and if I save they still find a way to get that off me too along with the bank fees.. We’ve had enough.. These are the real struggles of everyday people.. FU Kelly.. FU Labour and esp FU Fine Gael..
Well said Sean,
I agree with you. This is the most cynical government this country has ever had.
agreed Sean, and let’s not forget the issue of privatisation, which Kelly tried to fob off with an offer of a plebiscite just before Christmas.
idiocy at best, neoconservative IMF resource-plundering at worst.
I’m prepared to go all the way with this. So bring it on Kelly, you Labour turncoat. i’m NOT Paying for my water again.
Same here, I’m prepared to go in front of a judge and claim ‘conscientious objector’ status.
Low down fu@king traitors trying to privatise our water.
We already pay for water, I think someone should bring a legal challenge to ask why we should pay twice.
Could we just fling the bills at Alan kelly , enda Kenny, joan Burton, brendan Howlin, michael Noonan. I not paying again for water so I will take my bill and free post it back to Alan kelly in department of environment.
Mr O’Brien is looking for more money because this government did not give him enough. The mandate for these is gone years ago. Election will toss water charges in the Dail bill.
The brass neck on him is unreal
Mr Kelly i will teabag you if i get face to face with you!!!! you will NOT get one cent from me for Irish water you can do what you want!!
I don’t think tea-bagging involves face to face Greg, but I see your point!!
I wouldn’t worry too much, Alan Kelly will be gone soon enough, singing the same tune as Joan Burton “Why does everybody hate us,when we saved the country.” It’s a Country/Western song.
And the electorate are ready to deal with Kelly, White, Burton, Howlin and the rest of the Labour liars and traitors !
Tick tock ……..
It’s the arrogance of them that gets to me
He can shove his threats up his hole. He will be long gone, as IW will, soon enough.
One thing is for sure Kelly, you and your party won’t be around to see the result.
Martin Hayes
But they will be around to spend the money they stole from the people of this country, Yes, FRAUD ! They were elected on the promise of no water charges.
We need to find whom got all these € Billions and lock them up, its the only way to discourage corruption in government and business.
Bullying people who have no intention of paying ‘ever’ won’t work #youdontscarewmebully
Kelly you toerag! Your time in power is running out, next election you are out on your arse you nasty bit of work. You and your lot are going against the will of the people, you are our servant, we are not your slaves, what a nasty little man you are!My relative was in the first Dail, he must be dpinning in his grave seeing overpaid traitors destroy Ireland!
The movement will grow. Bye Labour
Bye labour no do you not mean good riddance to the Labour Party that have acted like the ghosts of christmas past. A party in government with Fine Gael who do not want to mark the 1916 anniversary because they do not cherish all the children and people of the nation.
They have fleeced the Irish people with regressive charges, low wages, veto to the banks to make one homeless etc..
Labour are like Fine Gael undeserving of our votes cast them out and keep them out of governmental power.
Can’t believe the audacity of this idiot who is still clearly not listening!!!! The people have spoken in their masses. This is a step too far. Now go back to the drawing board and find an alternative revenue source and solution. Stop trying to frighten and bully people. This tactic hasn’t worked! Deal with it.
I see Kelly is practicing the old ‘upside-down’ smile, – he’s going to need it a lot from now on.
I wouldn’t p**s on these parasites if they were on fire.
Not paying to support an old boys retirement club.
Tick tock, tick tock…..thats the clock counting down to the end of your short inglorious political career Alan.
Its a year to the election and ANY measure you attempt to put in place will lose you the pathetic level of support you still enjoy,
So bring it on……
The next government will have no choice but revoke iw and the fascist laws labour are gonna try and bring in…labour tratoirs the end is nigh
But that’s the point Trevor, this ship has sailed. The money has been spent, the meters have been put in. No govt will not go ahead with water charges.
Traitor selling out his country. Traitor selling our most precious resource for thirty pieces of silver
I am waiting patiently for “Charles” to tell me that ‘I won’t be able to sell my home ‘ .He’s a funny guy,too :)
There are thousands of people that voted for Labour who won’t be paying again for their water.
Also they wont be falling for all the lies and broken promises from Labour again.
If people would just open their eyes and see what the hells going on in front of them. Where was all the investment,that is so urgently needed now, during the good times of the “Celtic tiger” ?? Funnelled away into the pockets of the corporations and hidden in Swiss bank accounts. Now the cupboards are bare, what do they do. “Feck it we’ll just take it off the people again. Sure we’ll pass some legislation and call those that refuse to pay freeloaders and criminals. That’ll be enough to get them to cough up.” If you pay, you’re a coward and an idiot without the sense to see you’re getting bent over or the balls to stand up to an authority that shows complete contempt for its citizens.
i’d like to see all the names to those swiss accounts, any reports in yet? that list will emerge.
FREE the HSBC 350 ….. this INJUSTICE has to stop !!!!!.
The lack of an investigation in to these, at minimum, 350 people is a very serious indication of the cancer that eating away at this country!
Feck of Kelly we already pay so I’m not paying twice reduce car tax and abolish USC and we shall take a look at this water thing but as far as I’m concerned I have paid and not paying twice
Water is the first and most basic Human Right. Right wing fascists compare water to broadband !!! Mass. Non payment is hiw we will take back our water and country from the real sinister fringe in power. The real thugs are in suits in Leinster House.
This Lab (blue shirts light) is really starting to get on my nerves. At least there is less than a year to put up with the arrogance of FG/Lab. At this stage I might even start considering SF or worse FF. Hell even reneualoony are even looking better.
Does this Kelly fellow use his brain before he engages his mouth.
Threats and bully boy tactics to scare the Irish people in to paying for a service that is listed as already paid for in vat and car tax and completely ignoring the call for legislation to stop I.w. being privateised in the future.
The only way to stop him and is ilk make sure they are never elected again they are not fit to govern or represent the people of Ireland.
Shame shame on them
Soooo amusing! Our Government (unused to disobedience) put together a teeny weeny carrot – the ‘water conservation grant ‘. It has not had the desired effect. Out comes the tried and tested BIG STICK. Well, f u Kelly, and the horse you rode in on. I’m old, and increasingly desperate – bring it on, you sack of ordure.
The idea that non payment of this tax to IW could prevent a person selling property is nothing short of scandalous coming from a gutless menagerie of bully boys. The cheek of a member of a party which opposed water charges now seeking to impose the same. The dark art of political dishonesty. Disgusting.
Watch out Phil the thug hogan , run woman and children over Ray bulter and attack old men Frank Flannery will sort ye all out. Ohh i very scared
I also have been ‘surprised ‘ by the Commission for energy regulation. A mere rubber stamp, from start to finish
Baz – I used to have a neighbour like you but since the spine & brain transplant he now can see & think for himself. Only yesterday he told me that he definitely will not pay again for water & that’s a fact! Lol! My neighbour unlike yours doesn’t live in a cave! I hope you enjoyed my story!! As for Kelly & co – legislate away & knock yourself out. Changes nothing. Not paying again. Ever.
Either he is using to much fake tan or blushing with embarrassment over this ongoing self inflected crisis. Introducing legislation is a easy process couple of drinks no debate and more unworkable legislation. he has no problem with no records being kept or jobs handed out at golf clubs. Thanks to the HSE we have an insight into how Irish water will work. Another quango who’s only purpose is to coverup for the lack of investment in water for forty years. Irish water will take the blame not those councillors that partied while people boil water to survive for generations. FOI legislation has not brought any more accountability into politics as it is being undermined by those who created it.
Well they say all political carriers end in failure. But this Guy’s is going to end in disaster for him and his party.
I can’t believe I ever supported labour or Fine gael. Never mind voted for them. It will never happen again.
FACEBOOK. Please remove patjoejoe123 as this is one of the FG troll accounts, thank you.
This man is the lowest form of life in irish politics
Why do they hate their constituents so much, just seems like malice.
How is this even constitutional? Threatening ppl to sign up for a utility company…then more threats and scaremongering if you dont pay? The sooner the general election the better
Demanding money with menaces, I believe that’s illegal.
is this what he considers “building his legacy”?
He’s building a personal legacy, not one for the public.
It looks like the end of the Labour Party, many will be asking where has the €4 Billion already spent on IW gone ? That was spent only on the component of IW that takes care of billing. After Pat Rabbits admission on TV that he lied to get into government, people cant be blamed for asking if where did such a large amount of money disappear to, who got the jobs and contracts, did their family’s or friends profit ? Where did the money go ?
someone mention water charges?? ” compulsary response,
“HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! FCUK OFF!!
and leave it at that.
Korrupt treasonous filth kelly.
Alan kelly is being badly advised in terms of his future political career by his behaviour as a so called labour politician
He is coming across as distant and authoritarian and certainly not what one would expect from a labour politician
He would remind me more of a fg politician
But then again labour sold out a long long time ago.
To Minister Alan Kelly.
My family, my brothers and sister families, my parents, my in-laws are all ….
“ready to deal with anyone PARTY who advocate the commodification our our water supply”
I’m so, so, so looking forward to not giving your party or FG even a 10th preference!
Enjoy your power now you little boot-licker, I cannot wait to see you lose your seat :-)
Kelly is running scared now,he’s like a schoolyard bully throwing his weight around like his predecessor!!
There’s an air of panic in the Dail,i have a feeling we have yet to see more scandal from this failed Quango..
Where’s the comments from Burton,Varadkar,Harris and the rest of the bullies???
Just shelled out €500 to have my heating system flushed due to hard water in my area. Engineer recommended a water softener to prevent every other appliance seizing up. This will cost €500 plus running costs.
I have every intention of paying my water charges, however I will be offsetting the above costs against my bills, until I am reimbursed for the damage caused by hard water.
Just wait until after the GE, Gerry. No fines for not paying, no chance these guys will refund you when the whoke thing goes under.
Ruth Coppinger and Paul Murphy and SF etc are they types who propose everything will be free. What makes it even worse is so many people believe what the say!
What’s free?
Like USC would be.scrapped and it wont be fully!
Only our rivers run free. But for how long?
Never heard any politicians make that claim, but if you feel telling lies is the way to go so be it.
Ignore Proinsias he knows quite well that everything is not free, he’s just been stupid as usual.
Proinsias We already pay so it’s not free
@Proinsias
I have no problem paying for my usage of water. Maybe you think I and others that oppose the current system of water charges want everything for free. I assure you,many of us do not. I will pay a water charge when there is a system in place where my money pays for the servicing and upkeep of many pipes around the country that are producing brown water. Not going straight into the pockets of John Tierney and Brendan Murphy.
Proinsias judging by your FB page, you’re a bit fond of the aul free stuff yourself.
Nothing is free, 2/3 of motor tax collected was handed over to Irish water.
Proinsias – The not so brightest of Tralee guys , who wants to pay for his Water & Sewage TWICE OVER ?
And we thought us Kerry Lads were the cutest ?
You are letting the Kerry side down , Proinsias ?
How is paying 23% vat, €700 for a 2L car,Income tax, prsi, 2 x USC, huge tax on fuel, property tax, pay bin charges, DIRT, Capital gains tax,Capital acquisitions tax,Vehicle Registration Tax. And that is only some of the tax we pay in Ireland. How is that free?
Proinsias
Only the corrupt politicians and their Corporate masters get everything free. Shame on you for supporting them.
Hey Proinsias,
Remember in 2019, if your Friend, Neighbor, Son, Brother, Grandchild, Relation, Teammate… falls on hard times…..
>> WATER POVERTY – Fine Gaels & Labours gift to the Irish People!
Up start TD takes ministerial job for pension pot . Takes on the mantra of previous shister Phil Hogan threatening people. Long and a short memory has the strutting peacock Kelly . This birdy needs his wings clipped come GE and if his constituents vote him back in then let them all pay their new water bills because that’s what your voting for the extraction of more money from your pocket for the masters of Hardy man Kelly.
Go fcuk yourself turnip head!
Best reply…
Mr Kelly is so far removed from reality it beggars belief. He can bring in all the legislation he wants, the facts are and election is going to be announced within the next 10 months and this will be one of the main issues and its not going away any time soon.
Vote for labour the sellout party who sold out their core values and their voters for a run on the gravy train.
Remember Alan Kelly was elected on a no water charge vote it will be nice to see this turncoat get his reward come ecection time
I wonder how many headstones were counted in the 1.3 million!
The Big Bopper
Buddy Holly
Richie Valens are all paying!
I don’t like being threatened by anyone, more determined never to pay..
looks like they will need to build a mega huge prison fast!!!!!!
Keith O’Brien
Would a mega prison be big enough to house all the politicians and their cronies and business friends ?
I can afford to pay, I’m just not funding a ponzy scheme for charlatans. Book me a jail cell. Not paying..ever.I won’t be intimidated.
I still not Payne way I won’t pay never do what you like piss of
Not keeping minutes of business meetings at this level is a clear indication of of piecemeal Management and unprofessional behaviour. I refuse to accept any contract from any company who won’t or can’t run there businesses using standard practices.
Who does this guy Kelly think he is? Has he ever heard of the constitution or personal rights? No one can force a contract or declaration on another. This guy thinks he’s a dictator. It’s time these corrupt thieving parasites were kicked out and held accountable for crimes against the sovereign people of Éireann.
The whole country is refusing IDIOT.
I hope Kelly knows what he’s doing by threatening an already antagonised people. This protest has been
disciplined and peaceful so far. He should study what can happen when a mass civil movement is provoked.
Pity Thatcher is gone; she could have given him a few tips.
Peter Higgins I agree with you. Kelly is a lowlife piece of excrement , nasty bully boy, looking forward to seeing him getting his arse kicked as we dump him from the gravy trainz,
If alan kelly was on fire i would’nt waste water to put him out.
Kelly: We’ll be ready to deal with anyone who refuses to pay water charges…
Sounds like a threat to me… We’ll be ready to deal with these prats at the next election ourselves… How is that then?
I,v got a baseball bat in the hall for when they arrive looking for votes
Be no harm to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine with them lol.
So Alan Kelly is going to get tough with the people who have already suffered cuts in their income,be it wages or pensions,if people won’t accept a further cut via paying their water charges bill.No such fighting talk when it comes to tackling mortgage providers who are crushing people unfortunate enough to get into financial difficulties,when their homes are being threatened with repossession.
The Government must be really fearful and desperate even to hint at coercion measures.
The Government has lost the political argument to persuade the opponents to accept the water charges.
Now we have the argument of coercion.
Can you bring in legislation to force people into paying tax directly to a private company?
Alan Kelly, what a w@nker.
Good luck with that.
Makes a change from local radio stations threatening people to pay F.G. Gangster charges… And that is what they are…
It’s a private company supposedly , how could they possibly take it from source,
Does legislation superceed the constitution???? WHY DO PEOPLE HIDE BEHIND PSEUDONYM ON THIS COMMENT’S SECTION? Come out from behind there if you have nothing to hide.
This is getting as bad as the garth b cr@p.
It’s failed, it’s over sick of listening to it.
Can pay, WONT PAY!
This Government is only a degree or two away from being a Dictatorship who can only rule through fear and intimidation.
Scaremongering at its finest revenue collectors won’t be collecting money for irish water not at any stage
So law goes out the window? People are then somehow ‘obligated’ to perform in a contract with Irish Water that they never signed up for. A contract not entered into with a private company demanding payment under duress and protest is now enforceable by revenue? Good luck with that. If they follow through with this not only will the Government be decimated at the next GE but I think there could actually be a revolution in this country.
I think Alan Kelly could be charged with Fraud based on the statute :
Using false instrument.
26.—(1) A person who uses an instrument which is, and which he or she knows or believes to be, a false instrument, with the intention of inducing another person to accept it as genuine and, by reason of so accepting it, to do some act, or to make some omission, or to provide some service, to the prejudice of that person or any other person is guilty of an offence.
(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or both.
I for one am getting a bit sick of the keyboard warriors. I’ve official logged a complaint to the Gardai against Alan Kelly for alleged Fraud against Irish Citizens under the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001 section 7. It’s time we started holding these people accountable. Threats and coercion by politicians to take money out of your pocket by deception are still a common law crime.
Kelly is either ignorant of the law or lying…There is no action which can be taken by Irish Water to enforce payment of a contract if it hasn’t been agreed by both parties. They would have to reformulate Irish Water as a public body to impose charges. The way it was set up was to sell it (or rather) give it to Denis O’Brien and as such it is subject to standard contract law as per the bill which set it up. This is just scare mongering lowlife tactical lies…so no news there then, but do not fear as there is nothing they can do
If Kelly wants to keep pressing the political self destruct button for himself and Labour, and hopefully as a bonus FG, why should we care?. Unless, he’s deluded into thinking he can end up with a nice number like Hogan his hamfisted predecessor !
I really do not like that TD
Why don’t they put legislation in place to collect all the court fines, instead of putting someone in prison for a day in lieu which Prob costs more than the fine
Courts are going to get fairly backed up so.
There are 146 judges in Ireland, that’s including judges that sit in courts that lack the jurisdiction to hear civil cases, if Kelly ties this course of action the only thing he’ll brake if the court system, not the opposition to Irish Water.
I’ve already paid up to 2115
Just can’t find the receipts or have any proof but that’s all right isn’t it
Wow, just wow! At this stage, I wouldn’t be supposed if they said they were going to send round a bunch of thugs with baseball bats to the homes of those who don’t pay.
Been saying that for months now… No legislation exists, they can’t make me pay, there are no laws, can’t be deducted, can’t hurt my credit.
The people who believe that because no legislation has yet been established it never will be or can’t be are fools…
You live in China so don’t worry about it.
Drew you are correct non payment will not hurt anyone’s credit as confirmed by the Irish Credit Bureau before last Christmas.
Drew – I tried out the Dutch Gold that you so kindly recommended to me on Saturday :) It was like pi$$ water and I spat it out :( I will never listen to you again :) Try some Blue Nun ,Drew – I’m told that it’s a bit better than the pi$$ water that you recommended to me :) Cheers!
Mass non payment leaves them no where to run. The threats are coming because they are the ones that are worried. Excluding the paid government trolls and vested interests there are no voices who support the corrupt quango Irish Water. Even people who actually support some kind of charge on water are calling for the abolishment of it. It is a sink hole moneypit for our taxes whilst providing jobs for the boys, all the while preparing our water to be sold off. Future generations will suffer water poverty . It is disgusting and inexscusable. IW must be abolished and we must vote in the government to do it in the next GE.
Drew,
So Labour and FG are legislation themselves out of existence ? They must have made a fortune to be able to afford this route.
The head on Kelly tonight on Clare Byrne show!!!! All he said was I Did this I did that I am going to do this and that… Self serving roundneck roll on Election Day !!!! Back to harassing neighbours for Kelly cos he’ll have f@”k all else to do after Election Day !!!
it just beggars belief these people……….
Irish Water CEO doesn’t believe in minutes with the contractors, politicians, county managers wtc it’s his modus operandi. Learned from the developers looking for planning permission. Could we have copies of minutes he has had with county managers( now employed by Irish water) regarding their pensions and severance packages. Also minutes of the meetings with the consultants who were paid to draw up these agreements.
Billions paid to the crony retirement home quango and #not1pipe fixed
What in the Sam Hill is goin’ on in this country??? Its beyond ludicrous.
don’t see why people get their knickers in a such a wrist over this subject I really don’t. I’ve never had any intention of paying but I don’t put ‘NOT PAYING WATER CHARGES’ i in between my names on Facebook . I live in a apt where nobody in the building is even paying rent to good luck in getting money off me basically legally squatting ..
The water meter outside your home has a vial of 100ml of sewage in it. It starts to leak 1ml a day into your supply once you are over 3 months in arrears, returning your water into its original untreated state.
But they won’t cut you off or reduce your pressure.
It’s ok, someone took my meter.; )
not outside my house it isn`t Gahan – My meter is about 10 miles away, probably still ticking away measuring water in a landfill.
I am extremely fortunate to have inherited a small bungalow on a half an acre of ground :) I mind my own well :)I mind my own septic tank :) And most importantly I mind my own business :) #payupyoufreeloaders #ilovethatsaying
Johngahan – No Meter – so no problem!
What an ould Eegit you are “John” and all your other fake Twitter accounts .
@ John gahan out here in North Dublin we don’t have water meters as our community decided to stop their installation so enough with your scare tactics and bullshit. As for Mr Kelly talking tough I’m so sacred I hope I can sleep tonight, can’t wait for canvassing to start as FG & LB will need more than Garda’a public order unit when confronted by angry local’s who have come to see these so called politicians for the liars and cheats they are, and that’s if they have the ball’s to canvass the area in the first place. We Won’t Pay & They Can’t Jail Us ALL
No they won’t jail you all – what they will do is offer you a meter and if/when you refuse then they will slap a fixed charge on you.
Then they will offer you a range of options to pay.
If/when you refuse then they will garnish your pay or you SW payment (if applicable).
This legislation has already been passed and while there are a few kinks and problems with it , they reckon it will be sorted by the end of the year.
Before the red thumbing starts – don’t shoot the messenger…..
johngahan, you just have the biggest hardone for water charging? All over every article about it.
Have you skin in the game?
John, I’ve mention this to you before, don’t want you to forget what you are advocating.
Remember in 2019, if your Friend, Neighbor, Son, Brother, Grandchild, Relation, Teammate… falls on hard times…..
>> WATER POVERTY – Fine Gaels gift to the Irish People!
@Patylndo …..that’s rubbish only revenue can create an attachment order or take your money from your pay or SW as this is not a tax they cannot be involved in a semi state. You imply you are impartial…but yet all your posts are pro paying this charge. Come out of the closet and admit you are IW fan because you are a vested interest..
Never mind the vial of sewage. Just hook it up to your mouth and it will have the same effect, Gahan.
Lawyer up, Mr kelly!…………this is going to cost a fortune!
Jeez Martin, again seeing something that doesn’t exist and ignoring what soon will. Alan Kelly will change the law to allow Judges to order employers, pension funds and SW to deduct the bills. How is pointing this out pro paying? You’re a fool if you cannot see and understand that IW is here to stay, this government will do whatever it takes to get the money, they have no choice and any politician saying otherwise is talking rubbish. Sorry if that upsets you, sorry if you see it as pro IW,but this is why you lot don’t represent me.
Labour is finished, FG still have 26% 1st preference in last poll. There’s a big picture out there and you lot are oblivious to it. Tut tut tut…
unbelievably shortsighted. If Alan kelly introduces legislation to take a ‘utility bill’ from Social Welfare payments or salaries at source or pensions he is signing his own death warrant ….and that of FG when it comes to the next election.
People do not take kindly to bulllying and threats. THis has been proven before. They will be wiped out in the next election if this happens…. people wont forget this.
Cool pic btw
Proud as a peacock
Alan Kelly. .. you have absolutely nothing between your ears… Making statements like that only fuels anger… You and the fool from Kilkenny are well matched… …
This is exactly the type of thing that spark civil wars. Allowing a private company or semi-state to act with this much power? It goes against the very foundations of a free democratic society.
So they will sell of IW and every tom dick and harry will know our business, not on Kelly bully shame on you you are a traitor to the Country and its people
I think they should just find out who is not paying and surround their cars and chant slogans at them. Legal, fair and not bullyng….according to Murphy
Paddy Murray – Denis O’Brien still paying you off with your Pension , from Endapendent Newspapers ?????????
In a house with multiple adults which person would be taken to court ? What a mess this gonna be , saps…
IT IS TRUE…AND MUST BE OF GREAT CONCERN TO ALL OF US
He (ALAN KELLY) is the younger brother of Declan Kelly, who was appointed in 2009 as economic envoy to Northern Ireland by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Declan, and a company co-owned by him, donated a total of €7,500 in 2010 to help elect the north Tipperary politician to Dáil Éireann.
This included a declaration from Mr Kelly that his brother, from his address in New York, donated €2,480. A company jointly owned by Mr Kelly, Stone Park Taverns, also gave the new TD €2,500. Accounts for the same company show that, on top of that, it made a €2,500 payment to “North Tipperary Labour Party”.
Now Alan Kelly has become the face of a new generation of Labour and is likely to take his place next week at the Cabinet table.
P.S. “The latest aspect to the business, Teneo Intelligence, is headed up by a former an ex-CIA and Department of Defense figure and aims to identify trouble spots around the world and analyse their potential effect on global markets. – See more at: Global 100: Declan Kelly, Teneo Holdings“
WATER………..Water as a commodity? Teneo is involved in water infrastructure projects all over the world (especially Africa – appearing to be charitable at first, then creating a perpetual revenue stream).
http://fintandunne.blogspot.ie/2014/12/Irish-Water-To-Jon-Corzine.html
https://seeker401.wordpress.com/2011/11/17/teneo-new-super-equity-fund/
Force a GE by voting no in endas referendums, they have to be got out asap.
Re revenue irish water
Response to Consultation on Reform of the Water Sector in Ireland Re- Consultation on Irish Water
http://www.environ.ie/en/Environment/Water/WaterSectorReform/Submissions/Individuals-M-W/FileDownLoad,31985,en.pdf
So does this mean ESB , Gas, phone etc can be deducted from your wages or is this an admission this charge is a tax not a utility bill ? This is further panicking from this disgrace of a government and could be the death of the Labour party
The way I read this, Murphy doesn’t want water charges taken from his wages, he wants them taken from my wages.
Whatever the spin, that’s how it will pan out. If well-paid TDs like Murphy don’t pay for their water, it comes out of ‘general taxation’, i.e. out of the wages of the rest of us.
Cue loads of red thumbs and ‘blueshirt’ comments from the people who want Murphy’s wages left alone.
Is that legal under the ECJ, I doubt that it is???
This is young peoples fault pure and simple.
such a stupid comment.
Why should those willing to pay suffer because of those unwilling to pay and abide by the law of the land? So those willing to pay have to put up with inferior water infrastructure and sit back as others getting it for free? The only fair way is for all to pay and if you’re not willing it will be taken off you – best decision the government has taken since jailing the protesters who, again, decided to ignore the law.
The triple aaa are also bullies with their effective protests
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