Poll: Would you wear a poppy?

Well said Mr. Marr. The poppy and all the other establishment pomp and ceremony around war serves to glorify and validate past wars in order to justify current and future wars where another generation of the working class will die screaming with their intestines spilled out on the ground in Iraq or maybe Afghanistan to serve the interests of the elite.

There was great article from Fisk last week on the wearing of the poppy by the establishment war mongers:

“But now I see these pathetic creatures with their little sand-pit poppies – I notice that our masters in the House of Commons do the same – and I despise them. Heaven be thanked that the soldiers of the Great War cannot return today to discover how their sacrifice has been turned into a fashion appendage.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead-6257416.html

There is nothing wrong with wearing a poppy, every community in Ireland had men joining up to fight in WW1 and it wasn’t intended to be a political tool. The poppy is a symbol of remembrance and the money from poppy sales goes towards helping veterans of all wars and in my view the British Legion do a good job.
The saddest thing in my view about WW1 is that afterwards people and communities in Ireland turned their back on their own countrymen. Despite the recent change in attitude to bring our past out into the open, where I live there were forty one men died in WW1 still goes unacknowledged…..people just couldn’t care less..

Problem I have with the poppy is what other groups have done with it. I was in Belfast this time last year and did a black taxi tour. I saw murals and shrines of loyalists who murdered innocent Catholics covered in poppies. These people are heroes in their local community. That is not what the poppy stands for. To think the brave men who fought in WW1 and WW2 and somehow considered ‘the same’ as those murdering terrorists is a disgrace. It also explains the reluctance of many Northern Catholics to ever except the poppy

In the interest of balance, it should also be noted that on the same tour I saw a lot of tributes, shrines and murals to IRA bombers that linked them to the revolutionaries of 1916. They’re not.

They went off looking for adventure instead they found hell.
The problem is the glorification of war dead, true they were slaughtered, but they were slaughtered by other soldiers whom they would have slaughtered instead if they had the chance. Remember war dead if you want but please don’t glorify their “sacrifice”
Lots of people have died lots of other ways without setting out to kill. Who remembers the countless millions who died from grinding poverty and disease across Europe just between 1910 and 1918. Do we remember the victims of spanish flu, who far outnumber the war dead, or those from malnutrition, TB, cholera?

There was always a problem in the North where symbols which were meant to be apolitical, the British national anthem, the Union flag and the poppy, were seen to be sectarian. I respectfully suggest that if you are now living n London you can wear the poppy without making any party-political statement, in remembrance of your grandfather in WW1 and those who fought to save us from fascism in WW2 including many Irish volunteers.

“Save us from facism” don’t make laugh, the war was fought over german expansion, facism was an afterthought. What about eastern europe, they were saved from facism only to have sovietism. Liberation by the soviet union was no different than occupation by the nazis except in their choice of victims.

It was no bad thing that the nazis were defeated but don’t ply me with this black and white good versus evil rubbish.

Let the Unionists corrupt the poppy, they are a dying breed. And the only group in the UK (outside of the BNP) to do so.
The vast majority wear it to recognise the sacrifice of the slain, made worse for the pitiful reasons they lost their lives.
My great grandfather was in the Connaught Rangers and was shot in the head by a German sniper on his first day on the front line. I wear a poppy for him and the other 50,000. They deserve respect.
Leave them in peace.

The people who we are honouring died for our right not to wear a poppy. I am honouring them by ignoring the poppy nazis

I like how you put “sacrifice” in inverted commas. Because being killed isn’t really a sacrifice at all, is it?

But far play for admitting that it was “no bad thing that the nazis were defeated.” That’s very grown-up of you.

@mattyreese you overlook the fact that those men died because they were defending freedom. My great grandfather was wounded in the battle of the Somme. He was an Irishman and proud of being an Irishman. He had the breadth of vision to realise that it was not about Britain, but about the huge threat to freedom. I wear the poppy out of respect to him and all the others from both world wars. The fact that it is being exploited politically by hypocritical buffoons does not negate what it really stands for. The fact that most of these soldiers were cannon fodder, with higher echelons hiding safely out of harms way is appalling. To me, that makes it even more important to show respect for, and pride in, what people like My grandad did.i am Irish and proud of it, and am aware of the fact that Irishmen fighting both world wars were doing so, not as an act of fealty to Britain, but despite the fact that the British army was their only option to fight.

@voiceof vanguard Excellent comment!

My great great grandfather fought for the British army during the Boer war. I know next to nothing about the man except that he was from Galway, tall, and somehow managed to lose two of his toes while he was fighting over there. In honor of his service I’ll be wearing a great big floppy poppy hat and sitting in a bath of poppy seeds this afternoon. He’d have loved that.

Ummm. Please read up on origins and conduct of WW1, it was most assuredly not fought to “defend freedom” although this is a popular reason offered now especially with Germany’s behaviour in WW2. It would be more accurate to describe it as the clash of empires (which had been a feature in Europe for hundreds of years) suddenly and brutally coinciding with the advent of 20th century killing technology.

I would be happy to wear a poppy in remembrance except that it is run solely for the benefit of the Royal British Legion – the fact that they now claim to represent the dead of all sides doesn’t change this. I’m also uncomfortable with the coercive element now present and attacks on those not wearing it in the UK- a modern version of handing out of white feathers to shame those who hadn’t joined up in the patriotic fervour of WW1.

When governments and dictators make the decision to go to war, all politicians who support that decision should be handed assault rifles and told to enjoy themselves. Let them kill each other and not other peoples children.

We should introduce a harp. That should be our way of remembering our war dead. There is no way Irish people are going to wear a poppy when it includes the likes of the Black and Tans and and the British military both north and south of the boarder pre independence and during the troubles in the north.

They were not defending freedom in the first world war. It was a family fued between queen Victoria’s family. Look it up. Irish men joined the British army because of poverty. For a lot of them they had no shoes before joining the army. Don’t give me that sacrifice thing. The poor people had nothing. They got food and clothing. Boys were enlisted even though everyone knew their age. It was a horrible miserable waste of life.

Chris, people like Kevin Myers having been pumping out the message that ‘Ireland turned its back on those who fought in WW1′ for the last 40 years. How true is it? For example, many of the IRA’s top operatives (Tom Barry) in the War of Independence were actually WW1 veterans. Were they shunned? No, their skills were put to work in the War of Independence. If anything, it was the notion of Irish men as cannon fodder for an imperial war that was shunned.

@ Dina, I take it your grandfather had a gun in his hand when he died, but he most assuredly did not die for freedom. He died fighting for the biggest empire the world has known.

@Ipsum, you are right. Being killed is no sacrafice at all. Everybody does it. Who did they sacrifice themselves for? The landed Gentry?
Nobodt cared about th germans being nazis and how they treated the Jews. Only about 10% of Jewish applications for asylum from the nazis were accepted by britan during the 30′s.
Like today in 1938 to there was an international confrence to discuss a large scale refugee flow brought about by the annexation of Austria, chaired by the US only 1 country (the dominican republic) agreed to accept extra Jewish refugees despite nazi persecution.
If hitler never went near poland they might still be in power now.
But yes the nazis being defeated was no bad thing but it certainly wasn’t a happy ever after ending like revisionists would have us believe. For millions their lives were no better off after the nazis were beaten.

But Beano they are the rightful heirs to the brave men and women of 1916. Let’s be honest here, who would Pearse, Connolly & the men and women of 1916 have more respect for? Bobby Sands/Gerry Adams or Enda Kenny/Micheal Martin? And be honest. Yes times are different but these men were pariahs in their own time until they were executed, at the behest of the Catholic Church and the Independent (something’s never change). People need wise up and learn their history not from state sponsored textbooks but from their own experience and reading literature of their own choice (not An Phoblacht before I get usual claptrap) We got Irish landlords and capitalists taking over from English ones after the Treaty despite fact it was working class men and women who did the fighting. Just like the lackies in WW1 fought and got slaughtered for capitalist gain and nothing more. They can use the freedom argument for WW2 but not WW1 that was merely a war of jockeying for position nothing more nothing less

As long as they know what it represents and where the money goes. Tired of the nonsense that WWI was somehow a noble war or that the poppy is about WWII ignoring the fact it was revived to support the war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

True but why force people to wear it in the media?

Unionism/loyalist paramilitaries have hijacked the poppy in an effort to create a cultural identity.Listening to them you would think they were the only one’s to go to France,Iraq,Afghanistan etc.
I would not normally wear a poppy but due to work commitments in Ballymena this week I will be wearing one,for safety reasons.

I have no idea why the familial relationships of the respective monarchs in Europe at the time has to do with wearing poppies or not.

Kaiser, Tsar and King were all cousins.

Why is it important to remember men who got killed while trying to kill others? Are they somehow more noble than those people who died because they worked for twenty years in a hazardous factory or those who died of poverty because they couldn’t get a job in the hazardous factory?

Totally agree with IrishGravyTrain.

As is usual, the loudest and most obnoxious advocates don’t actually give the slightest toss about the war veterans who the Royal British Legion supports. If they did, they would be more concerned that, for example, a disproportionate number of homeless people are former soldiers. Or that more people who fought in the Falklands have died by suicide than in the conflict itself.

You can form your own view on the actions of the British military over the years, but anyone who thinks the welfare of former soldiers is less important than poppy piety has completely lost their moral compass.

Matty – I think the original point was that WW1 was a watershed. Before that, there was no concept of “total war”. For most of history, kings went off campaigning and you could enlist or not enlist. It didn’t really have much effect on ordinary people. Come 1914 and you have large scale conscription (though not in Ireland) and entire empires trying to starve each other into submission.

I completely take your point that there’s nothing specifically noble about dying in a war rather than a factory, or even from the influenza pandemic which killed more people than the conflict. Rightly or wrongly these were seen as the natural order of things, whereas total war was something human and avoidable. The last bit remains true. Poppies might help us remember that, but our betters seem determined to make them mean something different.

David, the monarchs called the shots and had the power to prevent the war from happening in the first place.It is all linked.
Franz Ferdinand decided to tour Serbia in an open top car despite knowing the dangers of hostile militia groups opposed to being a part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. He was down there to rile them up and provoke them.The first attempt to assassinate him failed but because of his arrogance they got him later that same day!!
Ken, im not saying that these soldiers don’t deserve to be remembered but the whole context of why they need to be remembered is the biggest tragedy. It wouldn’t suit the agenda to have people thinking that the war was avoidable though…

That sounds like a good idea. How should we remember Irish people who joined Allied forces in WW2?

It’s short for ‘poppycock’ in Ireland.

…ad lemmings.

…as* lemmings.

Maybe I gave the wrong impression, you can get them here

https://thesilvervoice.wordpress.com/tag/royal-british-legion-limerick/

So no dates. I still like it. Probably works better. At least it’s clear that you’re commemorating Irish servicemen and women. Is there any symbol associated with the National Day of Commemoration?

Ok – No dates on the picture on that lady’s blog but there is one when you click through to the donation/purchase page.

Yeah the fuchsia appeal is normally associated with the national day of commemoration. But it’s more skewed towards helping ex-soldiers who are in difficulty (homeless etc) than it is about commemorating the dead

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/funding-appeal-launched-for-homeless-defence-forces-veterans-1.2268077

You are seriously misguided if you think WW1 was a fight for freedom…

Died for the freedom of others you say Ger, is that why only a couple of years later thousands of Irish people were dying trying to get our independence from the very army that you say men were fighting in for the freedom of others. Seriously are you that clueless?

Deborah,

What about the Irish people who have been killed and maimed over many years by the Crown forces? The British Legion distribute the poppy to celebrate people in the British forces that have died in combat. These combatants will have killed and maimed other soldiers and civilians – that is the nature of war.

To me, the poppy applauds the military which is why I would never wear such.

No, not clueless. 50,000 of us died fighting in WW1 – were they all misguided pjm?

To blame them for the later actions of the British givernment is foolish, in the extreme.

Daisy , how many Irish citizens have to die before you give it Irish significance !
Thousands of fallen Irish have perished in these wars – read your history Girl !

That is not the point you muppet – it is one remembers the dead and fallen – that is the significance of wearing it !

Whether it was or not Manus, it was sold to the Irish people as such, a fight for the freedom of small nations.
Much as today, the politicians and overlords were inveterate liars.

To you perhaps, Phil. But – like so many on here – you erroneously assume the poppy’s significance.

And have no regard for the 50,000 – who died in WW1. Any the many more of us who died in WW2.

All traitors?

pjm, it was in the midst the backdrop of one the biggest mass movements in history, against an industrialized nation (Germany) who hell bent on aggressively invading France – that some in Ireland chose a moment against the wishes of its own high command. The counter reaction was, given it’s timing, defensive, both for simple democratic reasons and also the fact that such insurrection could easily have opened up another front in WW1 (given the following instability) and given the armaments from the US heading up the Channel was so important to the war effort.

I regret deeply the reactions as played out in history as much as anyone in modern times, but in those days steeped in Autocracies and Aristocracies, no one really pussyfooted around, especially when so much was at stake in the European battlefield.

Seb Ger is clueless if he thinks they were fighting for the freedom of others, I await his answer on who’s freedom they were fighting for. World War one was Kaisers, Kings and Czars sending their subjects out to defend and expand their kingdoms and any one who says otherwise needs to pick up a few books. We are becoming more like the English everyday, clueless about history.

Nobody more clueless than you pjm. See Mr Critten’s accurate post.

Seb I don’t have time to be replying to uninformed uneducated fools like yourself. Martin by the way I’m talking about the Irish War of Independence not the Easter Rising, I take it you’re trying to explain the British reaction in 1916, what about after the Great War?

pjm but they were fighting for the freedom of small nations, when they burnt Cork. Weren’t they?

Freedom of others me arse. They were fighting for the largest empire in the world.

The poppy is a mechanism for fundraising for the Royal British Legion and represents people who died while serving for the British Army (Not just WWI). We should remember the Irish people who died in the World Wars, however we should do this in or own way and not use a symbol which many Irish people are not comfortable with.

Pjm, my reference was with the comment ‘a couple of years later’, a couple of years later the war was still active tho coming to an end. The period after WW1 Ireland’s opinion, was still a divided opinion, hence the Treaty was passed but obviously shunned by those who didn’t fundamentally agree, and obviously civil war ensued, in which the original concept was defeated. We still see the same tug of love played out today with the recent Rte/BBC program, is it better to be an active part of something more economically viable, or facing the cold winds of the Atlantic. On the whole poppy day for me has to do with those tens of millions who fought and died against the tyranny of the Nazis, and against the aggressive invasion of France. Good job Hitler didn’t make it up the Shannon, but on reflection society surely would have had a different perspective altogether.

@ Daisy. So your answer is YES, you would wear a poppy.

Including my grandfather who was leading his men out of the trenches. His only daughter, my mother was born 6 months later. His body was never found. I will wear a poppy every year in remembrance of him and all the others who died for our/your freedom.

Jorge, do you contribute financially to the murderers who carried out Bloody Sunday and the Ballymurphy Massacre in any other ways, or just through the poppy appeal? Is your conscience clear, knowing that the money yo donate to the poppy appeal helps such murderers?

In the context of the day it was…

The money goes to veterans and to disabled soldiers.

That’s right Ciaran, the British Army is funded by the Poppy Appeal……..are you for real??

It’s about remembering the war dead, but feel free to reflect on anything, or anyone you may have lost.

Also, it is worth remembering the Irish survivors who were shunned when they returned from both World Wars. Seems the Irish are great for beating on our own people. Beal na blath is a nice example of how we treat our heroes.

I don’t wear a poppy but have no objection to those that do. It doesn’t mean you support a relative handful of soldiers that committed crimes but the hundreds of thousands from all over the world that fought against facism. The sacrifice of those that died is one of the reasons we have the freedoms that we enjoy today.

Any money raised through poppy sales in Ireland stays in Ireland, apparently. Most of it probably goes to maintain WW1 memorials, graves etc. The British military don’t get their hands on it.

Where exactly do you think all the money raised from the sale of the poppies goes Ger?

Aa – see above. And try to become better informed.

Ger – See below and become better informed

Page 2 of their financial report for 2014. £21million spent on care homes, £40million spent on welfare services.
http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/media/1955/annualreport2014.pdf?_ga=1.242236930.1238543148.1447237019

By their own website ‘Your Royal British Legion poppy helps us provide thousands of modern veterans, Service men, women and their families with vital advice and support’. Key word being MODERN.

I’ve no issue with someone wanting to wear a poppy and while it’s nice to remember those that were killed fighting in WW1 and 2 that’s not who benefits from the proceeds of the current poppy appeal.

As – stick to motoring. Very few WW veterans are left; ‘modern’ is inevitable….

So on what point about the current poppy appeal do I need to become ‘better informed’?

Veterans are normally people who went of aboad with a gun. If the poppy fund supports them it frees the British Army from spending money on their welfere, ergo more money to send more future veterans off spreading 5.56 calibre freedom.

What about the medics that went to Africa to fight Ebola or the personnel that went to help the victims of the 2004 tsunami. The people in the med saving lives as we speak Matty?

Whatabout the KKK man who helped an old lady cross the road? Whatabout the time Charles Manson gave a homeless guy some money? What about the SS officer who who gave one of his men the day off to visit his sick granny?
Whataboutary doesn’t change the fact that soldiers are armed agents of a state and will kill others when ordered to. Just because they got shot doesn’t make them heroes, it just makes them victims.

As a Canadian I can only say you should read The poem first and then comment on it. You clearly have no idea what it is about.

It is a symbol of remembrance for Irish republican combatants who died in the fight for Irish freedoms we enjoy today.

If that’s was true then I’ve no issue, once it’s not hijacked by faux republicans

But you have no problem with the poppy being hijacked by British nationalists?

Typical soldier; big on sentiment, short on knowledge and consistency.

I’m not British so it’s not really my problem

@Rod, You wear it so it is your problem.

“You wear it so it is your problem.” does the same go for neo-terrorists wearing Celtic jerseys? Of course not.

Well done Carmo, do you know many soldiers, we’re not all people who failed the police exams.

Your not British but served in the British army. What are you then, a mercenary who goes off swearing allegiance to and serving another country?