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A TEENAGE GIRL with acute behavioural difficulties and mental health problems has spent 115 days in limbo at Wexford General Hospital as she waits for funding to become available for a bed at an appropriate residential care centre.
The girl’s mother, who wishes not to be identified to protect her daughter’s anonymity, says that, for the third time, they have been offered a bed in an appropriate unit. However, she has not been able to take the places offered and begin treatment as the HSE says there is no regional or national funding available to her.
Speaking to the Enniscorthy Guardian, the mother (called Nicola for the purposes of this piece) explained her 15-year-old daughter’s problems began around eight-and-a-half years ago.
“At first, it was seen as a [solely] mental health issue and it was directed that she should go to CAHMS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services),” she said.
“I believed it was more of a disability problem. I could show you two foolscap pages of diagnoses that we’ve had over the year. They range from autism and behavioural issues to ADHD, ODD, PTSD, and even an intellectual disability.”
At the height of the problems, Nicola, who has three other children aged from 10 to 17, one of whom also has special needs, was living in fear over what would happen next.
“In the last two-and-a-half or three years, things have gotten much worse,” she said.
She’d overdose or self-harm. We’d be in and out of casualty all the time. If we were out or had visitors and she happened to see some pills in someone’s handbag, she’d take them, not even knowing what they were. It got to the stage where we had to tell visitors to leave their handbags in the car. If she couldn’t get her hands on anything else, she’d smash her head against the wall.
“She required 24-hour care before we came in [to Wexford General] and, after a while, they couldn’t control her in school. There were two SNAs appointed to her and she’d manage to run off and we’d have to get the gardaí out looking for her.
“They were very good to us. At one point they even tried to section her so we could get her the help that she needs, but she’s not psychotic. It’s just her anxiety levels are through the roof.”
Having previously been in and out of hospital and with things getting no better, Nicola made the decision that her daughter would have to remain in hospital until she received the help she needed in the form of a bed in a residential care unit.
That was 115 days ago.
The offers of two beds have come and gone.
Another one is currently on the table but Nicola has been told that her daughter will not be taking it up as the funding is not currently available to pay for it.
In the meantime, she is staying with her daughter and is effectively living in the hospital room beside her. She only makes it home to see her other three children, who are staying with her parents, for a ‘couple of hours’ each week.
The biggest fears for the teenager are the risk of suicide and self-harm.
Background
Difficulties in Wexford’s youth mental health services have been well documented this year with public resignations of key personnel and local activists holding rallies.
From January to September 2018, Wexford’s Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services have lost 5.8 staff members.
Nicola estimates that between disability funding, mental health funding and hospital funding, it’s costing somewhere in the region of €40,000 to €45,000 per month to keep her daughter at Wexford General. She has to be kept in a private room for her own safety and the safety of fellow patients. She also is aware that this is a room that is ‘desperately needed by others’.
Nicola says that for an extra €8,000, her daughter could be moved into the bed in an appropriate care centre and could even be back home within six months. As things stand, she has been told to prepare for the fact that she and her daughter could spend upwards of 300 days in Wexford General.
“I just don’t understand it,” she said.
“It’s a busy season here at the hospital at the moment too and they desperately need beds. Yet, we’re left sitting her until Simon Harris decides that money is available. He’s told us, however, that this definitely won’t be until the end of January at the very earliest.
“We’ve been offered a bed at Nua Healthcare in Kildare, but we’ve been told to forget about it as the funding is not there. We’ve more or less been told that if we want the treatment, we’ll have to wait for it.
“This is taking a year from my daughter’s life,” the heartbroken mother said. “The longer this goes on, the less services that will be available to her as she approaches adulthood. At this stage, I don’t know if she’ll be alive long enough to get the help she needs. She’ll end up killing herself or someone else.”
Nicola praised the staff at Wexford General Hospital, who she says have gone above and beyond the call of duty to help her daughter in any way they can.
“The staff are amazing,” she said. “It’s like a family up here. They do great work with her. They come in and do things like yoga and play cards. All things that just help pass the day for her. They go above and beyond the call of duty. Unfortunately, she’s missing out on her education while she’s here too. We’re doing our best for her, but there’s only so much you can do. She also suffers with anxiety attachment issues, so she gets anxious when I’m away. This places massive strain on us because my other three are living with my parents. They’re very good and they look after each other, but ultimately, they’re missing their mummy too.”
Local councillor George Lawlor said that, along with Labour leader Brendan Howlin, he has been lobbying the HSE on this case and, so far, they have been greeted with a complete lack of willingness to engage.
“It makes absolutely no sense to have this young lady in surroundings that are completely unsuitable for her,” he said.
“As well as that, from a secondary point of view, it makes no financial sense when you look at the cost of keeping her at Wexford General. The focused treatment that this young girl requires is absolutely essential if she is going to progress. Keeping her where here is doing the hospital no favours, and it’s certainly doing her and her family any favours.
“We’ve been lobbying on this for a couple of weeks,” he continued.
“We’ve been finding the HSE extremely difficult to deal with and to get through to. This is something that is having an absolutely dire effect on this young girl and her family.”
While they refused to comment on individual cases, a spokesperson for the HSE said that they were continuing to liaise with the family in question in a bid to find a solution.
Of course it’s about pay! Leave out the ‘higher purpose’ bs and people will take it more seriously. Whenever I hear “it’s not about the money’ statements, I assume its all a load of waffle. Say it like it is.
Assumption is the mother of all fcuk ups.
It’s about ever-worsening working conditions.
Doing admin work that has no benefit to our role as educators so Quinn can say he has increased the working week of teachers so begrudgers like you think we have it less handy.
At the end of the day, we don’t care what the public think anymore, if we don’t stop the rot now, The job won’t be worth doing due to the casualisation of the job (jobs being split in two/three etc) in addition to having to jump through hoops copied from the failed UK system which has since been changed.
Fergal if you look at the difference between the Haddington Road agreement and the FEMPI that now applies to ASTI members I think you’ll find that FEMPI is worse on pay overall.
Haddington road adds in what the gov likes to call “productivity increases”. What these amount to is increases in teachers covering for out sick teachers during times when they are not scheduled to have class.
What that amounts to is more unemployed teachers not even getting a chance to get their foot in the door.
Sorry, Tony but it was the recruitment freeze in the public sector under Croke Park I that stopped young unemployed teachers and other young graduates getting their foot in the door. Then on top of this, as their wages weren’t protected by Croke Park I, those that did get in were subject to a pay cut while those already in a job weren’t. So this has nothing to do with trying to help unemployed teachers. It has everything to do with pay.
“We don’t care what the public think anymore”
I don’t think you ever did. That statement just about sums up the greed and arrogance which that has people annoyed. You need to care what we think, we’re paying your wages.
IgnoreIreland – the recruitment freeze of course has a big effect but those hours of in-house cover also has a big effect. There’s no recruitment freeze when a teacher calls in sick – it’s not recruitment then, it’s sick cover.
CP1 was very very bad for new entrants.
Secondary teachers in Ireland are contracted to work 735 per annum – underworked and overpaid
734 hours
Fat fingers! 735 hours
4th highest in the OECD Phyllis and operating in a system that has dropped education spending by more than 40% since 2000 (which brings us to 75% of the OECD average spend).
Do you honestly think that that is all teachers work? Our contract, if we are lucky enoug is for 22 hours class time a week. That does not include the correcting hours, planning, schemes of work and all the extra curricular activities that take place in schools across the country outside of school hours. Also if a teacher needs a resource they have to buy it out of their own money! People who work in any industry get all resources they need to carry out their job to a competent standard supplied while a teacher must buy everything him/herself out.
Well loop De loop, you are bang on, you can tell from the red thumbs who is reading the Journal ( probably while “teaching” and you are wrong the taxpayer does not pay their wages the tooth fairy does. Based on speaking to parents and past pupils there are SOME teachers who shouldn’t be washing cars let alone have the responsibility of teaching the next generation, but guess what as a former teacher informed me “you cant get rid of them”
HOW MANY POOR TEACHERS HAVE BEEN SACKED IN THE LAST 20 YEARS??
Just because there are red thumbs doesn’t mean they’re all teachers – you suggesting so is to imagine that there is zero public support which simply isn’t true.
You’re absolutely right about the sacking of teachers though – there needs to be mechanisms around this – ones that protect good teachers and address those who just shouldn’t be there. The Teaching Council have made some moves towards this but not in any way speedily enough.
Apart from professional misconduct though it’s very hard to see how to measure teaching. I’ve never once seen a comprehensive suggestion on just how to do this.
Begrudger? I’m in support of the action, but to say it has nothing to do with pay is a lie. It may also have to do with conditions etc, but to say that pay has nothing to do with it is untrue.
The deputy leader of the union was on the radio claiming that they couldn’t ballot members during the summer holidays. But he didn’t say why. I can’t imagine they don’t have contact details for their members..
I am currently training to become a teacher and I don’t care about the pay,I only want to teach what I love which is history and English.
You can’t pay a mortgage and bills unless you earn a decent wage. Don’t be so naive.
I used to feel like that too David – over the year since graduating I’ve had 15 days teaching work. Reality comes to bite in pretty quick then…. I hope it’s different for you but I’d be very very surprised if it is.
Well according to an article in the examiner in April of last year the average wage of a teacher in Ireland is between 55k – 60k. The average salary of an Irish worker last year was 41k and somehow they manage to pay their mortgages and bills. Have ye all got million euro mortgages or something? Or is it the summer trips to Australia and America putting ye a little behind?
Greedy teachers who want the most money for doing the least work as possible.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/education/1500-teachers-earn-up-to-115k-a-year-189895.html
Average stats mean nothing.
Even in the link you provided it says the wages of 1500 “teachers” are up on 115k a year.
These would all obviously be principal teachers, ie headmasters and if their wages are lumped in with regular teachers, guess what happens to the “average” wage you’re so keen to point out?
It gets skewed to a higher figure than it actually is.
That’s basic statistics.
30% of ASTI members are on casual contracts starting on €30,700.
Of that figure, Very few get that as they could be on 11 or 16 hours teaching time a week instead of 22, meaning 15k or 24k a year.
There’s a few figures for you to peruse.
Er… Are you a religion or a maths teacher? If only 1,500 are above 85k, and a whopping 30% are on less than 30k, the average would be well lower than 55k. Basic statistics show that the average is 55k – 60k because the average pay is 55k – 60k.
The average salaries of workers in the public service have risen as recruitment of new-entry (ie lower salaried) employees has been greatly reduced due to the austerity.
In the end, we will be left with only the boring old farts (like me)!
:-))
1500 are on around 115k.
I don’t have stats on how many are between 85-100k.
Average stats are the average wage of a teacher, so no it is not rubbish it is the average salary of a teacher. According to this journal article 17000 ASTI are striking so minus 1500 principals, headmasters etc from the equation there are still 15500 regular teachers. 1500 higher paid staff on tops of 115k are not going to push the average wage up that high so the vast majority of teachers are still on a considerably high salary. And those stats would also include those low hours salary wage teachers. Much higher than the average workers salary. I have a 4 year degree in finance and have to work 38 hours a week with 2 weeks holidays a year and earn 24k a year.
Oh my god a teacher has to start off in their very first job on 30k. I don’t know how ye get up in the morning. Given the average college graduate starts on 25k ye can be extremely happy with that. And us private sector workers actually have to go and earn our pay raises and bonuses instead of just being given raises for time served.
John, I’m a public sector worker on €41k. After tax etc, that’s €2k a month. I keep reading that the average public sector monthly net is about €900 a week. Don’t believe the hype.
The article says 1500 are on between 85k to 115k. Read it before commenting on it
John – take a look at the “Education at a glance 2013″ OECD report.
education spending in Ireland from 2000-2010 dropped 40%
went from being a little above the OECD average to 25% below the OECD average
teacher pay at 82% of other degree holders as of 2011
teaching hours significantly higher than OECD average at secondary level (by about 5 places)
teaching hours at primary level are about the 4th highest in OECD countries
There have been a lot of suggestions as to what teachers “should” be paid and moans about “long holidays”
Let’s hear your suggestions of a pay structure for educators (including lecturers who are possibly included in that examiner article) and what hours should be worked….
If you do intend to make suggestions I don’t want to be accused of “picking holes” but I will say that some of the suggestions made over the last few days have been obviously unworkable and have consequences for the wider economy too – so while I’m seriously interested to hear anyone’s ideas on such a ting so that a reasonable conversation can happen, let’s make it comprehensive.
@john smith, hello john, i am not a teacher,so i dont pretend to know everything about it,nor do i buy into any newspaper statistics, or statistics in general. However if you use those figures with the word average as some sort of leverage for an arguement you clearly make it baseless assumption rather than matter of fact. 10 teachers earning 30,000= 300,000 + 2 teachers earning 115,000 makes 530,000 divided by 12 = 44,166 as an average wage. This is clearly misleading as stats can be,and when you use newspapers stats(whos bottom line is to sell newspapers) to argue the average salary is….you let yourself down. Also this may come as a shock but teachers pay tax also. If you were to incorporate the top rate in private sector and public the public is much lower paid, and given your intellectual prowess with figures and statistics who studied finance 24 grand is well overpaying you imho.
Maybe you should read the article, the so called meaningless averages don’t look all that inaccurate. And it certainly paints a picture that a considerable amount of teachers are grossly overpaid.
More than one-in-three primary teachers and 43% of those working at second level earn at least €61,000 a year.
Just over half of all teachers earn between €41,000 and €61,000 a year, through a combination of salary and various allowances.
Well done on totally ignoring reality and blanking your ‘average salary of a teacher ‘ statement. When reading newspapers john a pich of salt, good day sir.
So what you’re saying is that you have no ideas – you just want to stamp your feet and say “that’s too much” without even a single suggestion?
Sounds like you’re bitter to me. (and yes – I’m aware of the pun!)
Now, in terms of the figures in the article, I find it interesting (read: suspicious) that the number of 61K was chosen given that this is just barely below the level at which a teacher with 35 years of service would get. That is, assuming they had no other post of responsibility or any other type of allowance.
So really, what we seem to have here is an isssue of the demographics of teaching. Looking again at the OECD report (that you seem to have ignored), less than 10% of teachers in 2nd level schools are under 30. There are also a lot of changes which have been brought in that will affect these numbers. Or rather, they already have, we just haven’t any visibility on them yet:
Retirements in Feb 2012 will change the demographic somewhat and will result in savings. Also the removal of allowances as of Feb 2012.
People should give some notice to such changes that have already happened and relying on old and open figures.
The journal will keep these articles coming due to the high comment count. I worked on the private sector for last 7 years. I was on 53k gross. Good money, but paying huge amount of tax. I have given up the job to study to become a teacher of business and accountancy as it is something I always wanted to do. I know I will probably be unemployed picking up the scraps for years in Ireland when qualified. I’ll emigrate if need be. That’s not an option for many though. When did we become a country of miserable p***ks hat just wants to see everyone else suffer. Do you not see the importance of a knowledge based economy? If you all believe some of the figures being bandied about that teachers earn an average of 60k you are mad. How much did the cowboy builders earn in the boom building crap quality houses to sell to each other so we could all be millionaires? No one seemed to begrudge them. Neither did I, but I did understand enough that it was unsustainable and thankfully didn’t buy. I understand the need to manage the budget as teachers are public sector. That’s understandable. But why should the teachers get walked on either just to keep public opinion happy that they suffer too. We have all suffered in this recession. The public vs private sector divide seems greater than ever. Divide and conquer strategy being used by the Government.
Because frankly they don’t do a very good job and expect to be paid over the odds for doing it. They refuse any form of monitoring, accountability, league tables, anything that will hold their performance up to scrutiny. I would have no problem paying good, committed teachers a good wage, more than they get now, but only so long as the useless ones who are there for June, July & August only can be removed. Look back on your school days and no doubt you had some great teachers, but they’re rarely the ones that stand out in your mind. The wasters mess things up for everyone else, and the unions protect the wasters. Make it a real job, where either you perform or you queue for the dole like everyone else in the world, then they might be taken seriously.
I agree with you. There are poor teachers protected by the system. Having worked private sector I know the importance of reviews to improving performance and to weeding out poor employees too. Usually though, if someone gets through the initial 6 months in private sector probation they would need to make a big screw up to get fired. Instead these employees just sit at their level or get shuffled around a bit rather than fired. As you said, I do remember my great teachers and the bad ones too. This is where most reform is needed I believe. There are inspections carried out on teachers and these are becoming more regular and provide more feedback for the school and teacher concerned. It is difficult to assess teacher performance by looking at student results as students are all different and backgrounds vary greatly. Schools are not like a factory that picks the best ingredients to make a product. You cannot compare students to ingredients in a process. They are individuals and what represents success for them is different from student to student.
Good post. I’ve a daughter just starting 5th year, she’s had 2 of her teachers out sick already, she’s not back a wet weekend since the summer holidays.
Teachers don’t do a good job? Our graduates are snapped up all over the world but those who get them to college don’t do a good job? Get a grip.
When your son does gets 90% on a subject in year one and drops to 40% in year to and three (different teacher) something stinks! A drop of 10/20% might account for difficulty!! and you speak to other students and parents, then you hear ah! “thats Mr X sure he does almost no teaching, spends most of the class on his laptop!” ( probably reading the Journal)
Yeah I’m sure it’s not your son’s fault. Maybe the first teacher was marking him easily.
…and your point is?
Taxi Bill: excellent post. If you were making small talk in a taxi. Any chance you could save your comments for the poor unfortunates who have to listen to drivel as they are ferried from A to B? BTW, if you aren’t a taxi driver , you should give serious consideration to becoming one! Or become a teacher. Then you can type away to your heart’s content on a laptop in front of your students. While earning a small fortune, for ever, for doing nothing
Every teacher knows a “mr/miss x who give great teachers a bad name, but time and again I have been told (by teachers) they cant be fired!
I know many people dont like my comments, but I tell it how I see it.
So, there are bad teachers who cant be fired. Therefore, the Teachers are wrong to go against Haddington Road. Your ‘logic’ baffles me. It might be better to consider what could happen if you supported the teachers. Do you honestly think that your support for them would damage the education system (not that R Quinn needs any help)?
Not about pay, what a load of bull. Everything with teachers is about more money for doing less work. The vast majority of the public are sick to death of teachers moaning all the time about pay and conditions when they are on far better terms of employment than your average joe. I implore the government not to give in to the greedy demands of teachers, you will be backed by the public
correct John.
true, there are many dedicated teachers out there – but most ordinary people will NOT be sympathetic to the demands of the ASTI or to teachers.
In fact many will be downright angry reading this.
Most people are really struggling out there.
Some people in private sector barely get two weeks holidays, in a full year. (Lower paid public servants the same). Small business owners can hardly afford to take any time off, at all.
Teachers really need to wake up, – to the reality of the lives of others in our society.
It’s about pensions and bonus?
Then become a teacher Anthony if the pension and bonus make it such an attractive option.
Nothing to do with pension either and for your info teachers don’t get bonuses.
It’s about conditions, that’s the main reason for a no vote.
Let me get this straight. So they’re only back a couple of weeks after 3 months off paid holidays, and they’re already striking? They don’t know how good they have it. Come into the real world lads. Unbelievable
More “real world” bullsh1t comments.
“Holidays” aren’t paid.
Our pay for 168 days teaching is spread over the year.
For many young, substitute teachers, the “holidays” are periods if enforced unemployment as they can’t work when kids aren’t in school. This affects 30% of secondary teachers.
Try living on fresh air for 12 weeks during the “summer off” when it takes the DPS 12 weeks to put through a job seekers claim.
This is not what that’s about.
It’s about standing up to Quinn & co when they propose these “agreements” which are more akin to coercion.
We do not agree to ever worsening conditions.
We do not agree to targeting us for the 5th year in a row as a soft target.
This is not striking, not yet.
We have chosen a more draconian cut to our wages in FEMPI over the Haddington Road Coercion because we can’t take conditions deteriorating any further.
We have done our bit for the austerity cause. Enough is enough.
Is it any wonder the country is in the state it’s in, when our so called leader is one of those parasites too?
When you use terms like that you shouldn’t expect to be regarded as anything other than a troll.
So what’s the average weekly wage for 168 days work? I think that’s the question most people have. It’s never fully explained how teachers are usually paid. If you spread your yearly wage out to ensure you are getting a constant weekly wage, surely you can understand the frustration some people feel when they see someone get paid all year round for just 168 days work?
What a load of rubbish. Ya I’m earning 50k for one day but that’s spread out over 365 days……. So the average wage of a teacher (according to below article in April of last year) is between 55k – 60k per year and ye work 168 days a year. So basically ye earn roughly 350 euros a day?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/education/1500-teachers-earn-up-to-115k-a-year-189895.html
Why are you all so obsessed with meaningless average figures.
They mean nothing as the 30,000 secondary teachers are all on different points of the scale at different stages in their careers.
You mean 168 half days surely!
What people insist on NOT seeing is that when you’re paid over 26 pay periods as opposed to the 18 or so in a school year it’s actually saving taxpayers money.
getting paid at a lower rate each fortnight amounts to the gov holding back about 30% of a teacher’s salaray and then paying that over non-school weeks. So that money has a chance to earn interest.
Would you propose to change it to a system where pay is put out only on weeks worked? And create a payroll nightmare that would end up costing MORE?
Average figures are the averages that teachers are paid. What are you talking about that they are meaningless? They mean that is the average pay of a teacher.
Any statistician will tell you averages are terrible stats to use.
Better off using median or standard deviation.
Well given only 1500 out of 17000 are on 85k plus and new teachers are starting off on 30k would a 55k-60k average not seem correct? Provide some backup the remaining 15500 teachers are not earning 55k-60k
Holidays are not paid it the wage for the school year divided by 12 …..
John – in another comment you’ve compared teachers’ pay to the private sector average wage. If ever there was a meaningless comparison, that’s it.
The article you mentioned from the examiner doesn’t make it clear whether or not 3rd level educators are included in those figures. This is a pretty important point don’t you think?
I think the only people that would complain about the level of pay at the upper end of the scale for educators are those who are on those monies – but most teachers simply aren’t. It’s not the reality for teachers.
Love how he kept saying “teachers” had voted against us as if to label them all on the no side, when in reality it’s only the asti who rejected it. Nice little attempt at trying to pull the wool over our eyes.
If its not about pay, maybe they need five months holidays instead of four, or extra sick days, or both.
If its not about pay then its easily resolved. Just take the pay cut and put the money saved into reserving some of the cut backs in the classroom.
Although I just think that Pat King won’t see it in such simple terms because I have a sneaky feeling that maybe it is about pay after all !!
John , teachers pay enough in taxes towards educating your kids on top of minding them all day and educating them. They should be remunerated accordingly.
Private sector workers pay enough in taxes to keep ye in your jobs and don’t forget that because many are getting very sick of ye’re constant moaning. Your job is a teacher, minding and educating kids is what your supposed to be doing. Even with cuts still on massive salaries compared to most people
And public sector workers spend their wages in the private sector.
How kind of you Tommy, to return the money you take from our paypackets each month to our employers. Please ignore all the disparaging comments on here and rest assured that we simple private sector serfs are forever grateful for your selfless materialism within private sector establishments.
Anyone else remember the day the PS went on strike and there were two hour tailbacks to Newry as they were all going up doing their xmas shopping?! Good to see our taxes going to support the private sector all right, just such a pity that the moment the opportunity arises, it is someone else’s private sector.
Tommy C, your point is quite nonsensical. The teachers are paid to teach and take responsibility for the children while they are in their care. As servants of the state they are paid by the state who in turn are funded by the taxes that they collect from the private sector. How much tax they pay is irrelevant as every worker pays according to the same tax legislation.
The question of being remunerated accordingly is the key as Pat King has just stated that that is not the reason for the industrial action and perhaps whether you are indeed a teacher or merely a supporter your comment contradicts his assertion. You would do well to remember that the ASTI are alone amongst all of the public sector unions in not recognising the financial situation that the country finds itself in.
Silent, I didn’t go on strike. I never have. I do your tests in hospital on a 24 hour Rota including xmas day. You keep paying those public sector creche owners a grand a month, oh no wait! I mean private sector! The sector that has been ripping us off for years! If you’re wondering where the healthcare budget is spent, try looking to the private sector who keeps increasing the cost of lab consumables and machinery etc to pay their overpaid staff.
Servants of the state??? Give me a break! Without teachers, you’d have to take full responsibility for your own kids all the time! Parents get away with a multitude of responsibilities due to their kids being in school. Don’t like it, educate your kids at home. Maybe more of you should look at home schooling?
@Tommy C
…….and your point is ?
It worries me that our taxes apparently pay your salary because I just hope that you apply better logic to whatever tests you carry out than you apply here.
Then don’t get sick John cos you’ll need me, nurses and doctors. Don’t have kids either because they’ll need an education. Then you can whine.
Silent, then stop the Irish private sector from being such a rip off!
Excellent Tommy, just excellent. So just so I understand your point correctly, public sector workers will spend their wages, which they extract from the Irish private sector, within the Irish private sector, but only so long as the goods and services within the Irish private sector are cheaper than in other jurisdictions? However, you still expect Irish public sector workers to be paid more than public sector workers in our neighbouring jurisdiction, to fund which means we must extract more money from the Irish private sector in taxes, resulting in higher costs in the Irish private sector. Your grasp of economics is so poor I think you may actually have a future in politics.
are you implying that parents/Guardians nowadays are not educated enough to educate their children ?,,,,….very condescending
The ASTI members are now in a difficult position as the only union that has not accepted Haddington Road (I refuse to include “Agreement” – because it was/is overt bullying) or a number of reasons:
1. Public opinion will soon be strongly against them, as parents may find it difficult to make parent/teacher meetings during normal work hours
2. From my understanding, ASTI members will fall under the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Bill (FEMPI) which entitled the Minister to change their pay and work conditions at will. Who is not to say Minister Quinn won’t exercise this newly-granted authority?
Many years ago I remember a teacher of mine taking the mickey out of Dail holidays and then telling us about her month long tour of Quebec during the summer. I sometimes smile when thinking of this.
While our junior doctors have been forced to engage in industrial action as they feel that their 100 hour weeks in highly stressful roles, literally with the power of life and death in their hands, may be detrimental to their professional performance & even their own health, our teachers are, YET AGAIN, kicking up a fuss about the conditions in their 20 hour a week, 7 month a year job. Although I doubt this government have the courage to do it, it is about time someone broke this union and brought teachers into the real world. We only have so much money, doctors are bloody hard to replace should they choose to up sticks due to their work conditions (and it’s never hard for a doctor to find work abroad), teachers can be replaced very easily. We have an excess of young teachers now, many of whom can’t even complete their training. So I say, strike away, you’ll come back when you’re hungry enough but you better hope one of those young teachers wasn’t hungrier as you may return to find your job and your union safety net are things of the past.
Teachers aren’t nurses or doctors and the public has a long memory when it comes to the ASTI. They won’t have much public support. Think bus drivers.
Then mind and educate your own kids! Teachers are educating the nurses and doctors of the future you fool!
I think people on here are confusing average salary and median salary. There is a big difference. If one teacher was paid a million euro that would hugely skew the average pay. Teachers on 100k plus would be very few and would only be principals in huge schools who would be responsible for managing well over 700 pupils plus 50 plus staff.
While the summer holidays are great for the permanent teacher the others don’t get paid for the 3 months and the long holidays are actually a negative in pay terms.
The conditions seem to be a big thing. The deal would not have been voted down otherwise. A big reason for it failing is that existing teachers will have to cover other classes for free when they would have used this time to prepare for their class time. This also prevents young teachers from getting these class periods thus young teachers would have been badly affected if the deal went through.
“Not about Money”… “unless they are pensionably remunerated”
Em…
outside of normal school hours?? so what time is quitting time?
I remember that in my old school school hours was 20 mins or so after the end of classes to allow for meetings etc
I would think that the vast majority of people on here giving out, moaning, complaining about and slagging off teachers fall into at least one of the categories below:
(A) hate their own menial professions so much they have to slag off a rewarding job like teaching ;
(B) Probably spend most of their day jobs ‘uninspiringly’ pressing buttons on a keyboard thinking it is actually work.
(C) didn’t like a particular teacher at school and is still hung up about it ever since.
(D) and obviously as they’ve spent a period of their lives behind a desk in the classroom believe they are qualified enough to critique the teaching profession.
(E) Only get 20 days annual leave days per year because their job is pretty meaningless and worthless.
(F) reading and red-fingering this comment when they should be actually working (likely a profession which involves pressing a lot of buttons creating some majestic programming database thing)
Apologies for any offence caused to anyone but which one do you fall into?
It’s not about pay. Yeah right. They’ll be telling us it’s for the students next.
Pull the other one it jingles, OF COURSE it’s about money….. Unions cause more problems than they prevent.
They are only back from their (fully paid) three months holidays & now they want to go on strike??
Disgusting but true.
Course its not…..
They thought that the Haddington Road agreement was above them,,,,they gambled and lost,,,,,their working conditions are far supreme to that of mere Labourers,,,,,,they expect us to look up to them because our childrens futures supposedly lie in their hands,,,,,,,all they are doing is high lighting how good their working conditions really are,,,,,their conditions and hours are family friendly,,,,and so is their pay,,,,,the country wont grind to a halt as they throw their toys out of their pram.
So do teachers get paid full wages while on their industrial action?
I suppose that in Ireland people don’t get paid when they go on strike – or is this some sort of work to rule?
have your say